Schools closed until February? (part 3)

khalessi · 28-10-2020 07:04PM

Rodin wrote: »

The teachers should tell the ICU nurses how difficult things are... see what response they get...

Never happy that lot....

ICU nurses I used to work with said teachers should strike, they think it was ridiculous that testing and tracing not carried out in a similar manner to theirs.

JJJackal · 28-10-2020 07:04PM

khalessi wrote: »

Despite what you believe, Dublin Fire fighters went on strike in the 80s for 14 weeks

Was there a very large fire that they failed to respond to at the time they went on strike?

I don't dispute they went on strike. Strikes have their place - just not in the middle of a pandemic.

Smacruairi · 28-10-2020 07:04PM

khalessi wrote: »

Despite what you believe, Dublin Fire fighters went on strike in the 80s for 14 weeks

And nurses were balloted not too long ago, so were consultants, Gardai went to the courts for the right to vote... But yeah its only teachers.

8k71ps · 28-10-2020 07:05PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Anyway all government need to do is drag this out a week or two. Then they will be balloting for actual strike. It will take them another week to count the votes and then the covid numbers will be hopefully low enough anyway and it will make the strike look completely ridiculous.

I think the point is that they won't be returning (or invoking the right to strike 3 weeks afterwards) if they don't comply.

froog · 28-10-2020 07:05PM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

The long sought after cure for covid has finally been found

it's safer than a lot of ventilation systems.

Hotblack Desiato · 28-10-2020 07:07PM

froog wrote: »

guaranteed full hours permanent job (just spotted that one)

You failed to spot that they voted against that one.

Hotblack Desiato · 28-10-2020 07:07PM

froog wrote: »

i would open the windows.

In November?

Smacruairi · 28-10-2020 07:08PM

JJJackal wrote: »

Was there a very large fire that they failed to respond to at the time they went on strike?

I don't dispute they went on strike. Strikes have their place - just not in the middle of a pandemic.

Your analogy doesn't hold up... Fires are to firefighters as literacy levels are to teachers... Is there an educational emergency at the moment?

JJJackal · 28-10-2020 07:08PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

And nurses were balloted not too long ago, so were consultants, Gardai went to the courts for the right to vote... But yeah its only teachers.

Did these ballots take place during a pandemic?

froog · 28-10-2020 07:08PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

You failed to spot that they voted against that one.

a significant number voted for it, and it was put on the ballot in the first place.

Icyseanfitz · 28-10-2020 07:08PM

froog wrote: »

it's safer than a lot of ventilation systems.

And it won't be happening in schools for long more as parents will be up in arms about cold classrooms

Smacruairi · 28-10-2020 07:09PM

JJJackal wrote: »

Did these ballots take place during a pandemic?

Record levels of patients on trolleys, so yeah. In fact they saw the state of the system and said no more, so balloted and were given assurances of reduced hours actually. But you knew all that right?

froog · 28-10-2020 07:10PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

In November?

put on a jacket. turn up the rads.

i'm not being smart. plenty of schools are doing this. the alternative is upgrading ventilation systems in a huge amount of schools which wouldn't be done until the pandemic is over most likely.

Hotblack Desiato · 28-10-2020 07:10PM

froog wrote: »

a significant number voted for it, and it was put on the ballot in the first place.

So now you're attacking them over something they voted against.

Jesus wept.

JJJackal · 28-10-2020 07:10PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

Your analogy doesn't hold up... Fires are to firefighters as literacy levels are to teachers... Is there an educational emergency at the moment?

Yes

https://en.unesco.org/covid19/educationresponse/consequences

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/reopening-schools.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/what-long-term-impact-will-school-shutdown-have-on-children-1.4289588

meeeeh · 28-10-2020 07:11PM

8k71ps wrote: »

I think the point is that they won't be returning (or invoking the right to strike 3 weeks afterwards) if they don't comply.

Yes and the government always sticks to it's word. They can promise anything. I bet you they will be back in schools next Monday. The only way this would work is if holidays were extended.

Hotblack Desiato · 28-10-2020 07:12PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Latest data on mass testing of schools.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1028/1174484-irish-schools-covid/

Less than 3000 tests, is that even 1% of pupils and staff? How does that get to be called "mass testing"?

appledrop · 28-10-2020 07:12PM

Over 40+ outbreaks in schools in last week records.

Remember outbreak more than one case.

This is not good.

JJJackal · 28-10-2020 07:12PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

Record levels of patients on trolleys, so yeah. In fact they saw the state of the system and said no more, so balloted and were given assurances of reduced hours actually. But you knew all that right?

Thats not a pandemic. This was the norm (and shouldnt be) - as are overcrowed classrooms.

Neither of which is a pandemic

"A pandemic (from Greek πᾶν, pan, "all" and δῆμος, demos, "people") is an epidemic of an infectious disease that has spread across a large region, for instance multiple continents or worldwide, affecting a substantial number of people."

Smacruairi · 28-10-2020 07:13PM

JJJackal wrote: »

Yes

https://en.unesco.org/covid19/educationresponse/consequences

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/reopening-schools.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/what-long-term-impact-will-school-shutdown-have-on-children-1.4289588

Yeah, I know it's important, which is why it's important to have it done safely. Your analogy was that there is a fire, there is not an educational emergency. Remote learning, staggered starts, a myriad number of solutions muted, but you just want to mix metaphors.

Students who are very high risk, what about them? Should they be sacrificed?

I know the meaning of pandemic. Thanks. Why do you think students should be packed into classes in a pandemic when there are safer alternatives?

khalessi · 28-10-2020 07:14PM

JJJackal wrote: »

Was there a very large fire that they failed to respond to at the time they went on strike?

I don't dispute they went on strike. Strikes have their place - just not in the middle of a pandemic.

A pandemic that occurs once every 100 years sorry but :pac::pac::pac: and re fires, yes fires occured and the army were sent.

Also I note that you asked for examples of HCW and teachers re testing and masks, I responded you ignored.

irishblessing · 28-10-2020 07:16PM

JJJackal wrote: »

Firefighters fight fire. They would not strike if the country was on fire (burning). I do not believe the country was on fire (not talking about an isolated fire) when they went on or threatened strike?

The country needs to stick together now. Teachers too. Now is not the time to strike.

If they weren't given fire retardant gear, o2 tanks and firehoses I bet they would strike.

HerrKuehn · 28-10-2020 07:17PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yeah, I know it's important, which is why it's important to have it done safely. Your analogy was that there is a fire, there is not an educational emergency. Remote learning, staggered starts, a myriad number of solutions muted, but you just want to mix metaphors.

Students who are very high risk, what about them? Should they be sacrificed?

I know the meaning of pandemic. Thanks. Why do you think students should be packed into classes in a pandemic when there are safer alternatives?

remote learning for primary schools is similar to remote fire fighting.

JJJackal · 28-10-2020 07:17PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yeah, I know it's important, which is why it's important to have it done safely. Your analogy was that there is a fire, there is not an educational emergency. Remote learning, staggered starts, a myriad number of solutions muted, but you just want to mix metaphors.

Students who are very high risk, what about them? Should they be sacrificed?

There is an educational emergency

High risk students should not go to school - facilitate remote learning if possible for them

High risk teachers should not teach in classrooms - potentially they could teach the high risk students remotely

Actually thats not a bad idea

You create high risk class of pupils from a few schools and get the high risk teachers to do remote teaching. Likely feasible to get laptops etc for a 5-10% of school going population

Smacruairi · 28-10-2020 07:19PM

JJJackal wrote: »

There is an educational emergency

High risk students should not go to school - facilitate remote learning if possible for them

High risk teachers should not teach in classrooms - potentially they could teach the high risk students remotely

Actually thats not a bad idea You create high risk class of pupils from a few schools and get the high risk teachers to do remote teaching. Likely feasible to get laptops etc for a 5-10% of school going population

That I'll agree with. Good man, getting somewhere. Now if you can tell me why the DES don't want to do anything like that, that would be great.

Also regarding the free laptop thing it came on the back of a suggestion for workers on WFH schemes who wanted tax back on laptops similar to the bike from home scheme. I am not sure if it made it out of the debate stage of the oireachtas however. But it was a private sector initiative.

irishblessing · 28-10-2020 07:20PM

froog wrote: »

if the vote to strike was on;

1. faster testing
2. proper application of close contact definition
3. provision of PPE if there is a shortage (i'm not sure there is)
4. other control gaps I am not aware of
5. immediate investigation into the methanol hand sanitiser debacle (not sure how this isn't on the ballot)

with a reasonable timeline for fixing, say 3 weeks, i would be strongly in support of them.

but you add in free laptops for everyone, an old pay increase grievance, guaranteed full hours permanent job (just spotted that one) to anyone joining the system and a two day deadline you lose all public support.

Anyone here have an office job that they're required to purchase their own computer/laptop/phone/printer/paper? :pac:
If teachers are going to be setup for remote working these are needed. They are not frivolous demands. Students who come from a low income family should also have loan of equipment. This is done in other countries who do remote learning. It's called investment. But we here in Ireland wouldn't know anything about investing in our education sector. The government have had months and decades to sort these same issues, not two days.

khalessi · 28-10-2020 07:22PM

I do love how teachng is compared to Fire Brigade and Hospitals both emergency services, while teaching is not and never was an energency service.

JJJackal · 28-10-2020 07:23PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

That I'll agree with. Good man, getting somewhere. Now if you can tell me why the DES don't want to do anything like that, that would be great.

Also regarding the free laptop thing it came on the back of a suggestion for workers on WFH schemes who wanted tax back on laptops similar to the bike from home scheme. I am not sure if it made it out of the debate stage of the oireachtas however. But it was a private sector initiative.

I agree with all suggestions to try and improve safety etc

I just dont agree with strike at this time. Once pandemic is over, strike away imo

JJJackal · 28-10-2020 07:24PM

khalessi wrote: »

I do love how teachng is compared to Fire Brigade and Hospitals both emergency services, while teaching is not and never was an energency service.

Your doing teachers a disservice here. Teachers (when teaching) do essential work that benefits the economy and childrens health - this we all agree on

Lack of education is an emergency.

2ndcoming · 28-10-2020 07:29PM

khalessi wrote: »

I do love how teachng is compared to Fire Brigade and Hospitals both emergency services, while teaching is not and never was an energency service.

I was the origin of that, the point got lost along the way it seems...

2ndcoming wrote: »

Healthcare workers of course are fully aware that they will potentially be exposed to viruses in their line of work, they are trained specifically for this.

No one else is. If we had a wildfire epidemic you couldn't turn around and say the teachers should just carry on teaching, you don't see firemen complaining. It is literally what they do. Jesus.

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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