Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

eastwest wrote: »

If West on Track was really serious about a Sligo-Galway rail link, they'd be screaming for a rail alignment alongside the improved roadway, bypassing the twisting, slow old alignment.
But that won't happen, so neither will the railway.

Why would West on Track 'scream' about that? Like the Quietman Greenway they're looking at an option for public transport where there won't be CPO's. If that's fair enough for a greenway then it's fair enough for rail.

There seems to be a myth out there that the old alignment is twisting??


Looks straight to me! The rail line takes in communities that don't have a bus service.

eastwest wrote: »

If West on Track was really serious about a Sligo-Galway rail link, they'd be screaming for a rail alignment alongside the improved roadway, bypassing the twisting, slow old alignment.
But that won't happen, so neither will the railway.

Greaney wrote: »

Why would West on Track 'scream' about that? Like the Quietman Greenway they're looking at an option for public transport where there won't be CPO's. If that's fair enough for a greenway then it's fair enough for rail.

There seems to be a myth out there that the old alignment is twisting??

Looks straight to me! The rail line takes in communities that don't have a bus service.

I believe the road improvement extends from Collooney to Knock, whereas the video shows Claremorris to Athenry (the remainder of the distance). Its north of Claremorris that the line gets bendy.

So I think rail to Athenry to Claremorris would be fine on the existing WRC line, but I'd agree with Westtip that there seems to be (have been?) an opportunity to at least consider a new railway alignment with a new road, or at least the provision for the land if people want to consider current feasibility.

Greaney wrote: »

Why would West on Track 'scream' about that? Like the Quietman Greenway they're looking at an option for public transport where there won't be CPO's. If that's fair enough for a greenway then it's fair enough for rail.

There seems to be a myth out there that the old alignment is twisting??

Looks straight to me! The rail line takes in communities that don't have a bus service.

The real issue is this, if West on Track had ambition they would seek a totally new alignment, in particular north of Claremorris, which is a piped dream in any event, your premise that the current alignment is fair enough for rail and fair enough for greenway means an aspiration for a poor railway route. The Roads lobby would never have accepted merely widening the main trunk roads and a few simple bypasses (the rosary bead solution), they wanted proper infrastructure. What is the point in building a new railway line on an old alignment that will give you C19th travelling speeds? I have never understood the lack of ambition. When you think about it - if you wanted to build a new railway from Limerick to Galway wouldn't you want it to run by Shannon Airport and take a more direct line to Galway than via Athenry? If that had been done journey times Limerick - Shannon Airport - Galway would be far more efficient than what we ended up with.

westtip wrote: »

The real issue is this, if West on Track had ambition they would seek a totally new alignment, in particular north of Claremorris, which is a piped dream in any event, your premise that the current alignment is fair enough for rail and fair enough for greenway means an aspiration for a poor railway route. The Roads lobby would never have accepted merely widening the main trunk roads and a few simple bypasses (the rosary bead solution), they wanted proper infrastructure. What is the point in building a new railway line on an old alignment that will give you C19th travelling speeds? I have never understood the lack of ambition. When you think about it - if you wanted to build a new railway from Limerick to Galway wouldn't you want it to run by Shannon Airport and take a more direct line to Galway than via Athenry? If that had been done journey times Limerick - Shannon Airport - Galway would be far more efficient than what we ended up with.

Ambition hasn't delivered anything in the west for quite some time, how far would back would you have to go for a major infrastructure investment of national importance...Shannon Airport? Ardnacrusha? The N17 between Curry and Collooney has been an embarrassment for decades. The Galway city ring road has been in the works for almost as long and even today feels as far away as ever. Ambitions are nice but get you nothing.

So while I agree with you that its worth considering the provision of rail in the N17 project, perhaps WOT are instead aiming at what they can realistically get. If the phases from Athenry to Claremorris are built could further phases use the existing alignment with some CPOs for straightening or avoiding stretches with intensive road crossings...there are possibilities.

If I understand it correctly the current government have committed to spending max 33% (figure may be off) of capital investment on roads - with N17 competing against Limerick to Cork and other road projects maybe WOT are hedging their bets or again...going with what they feel is most realistic.

The other thing to note about the proposed N17 upgrade project is that the road type requires pedestrian/cyclist facilities to be provided, either adjacent to the new road or on an alternative alignment. There may be an opportunity to utilise the WRC north of Claremorris as the pedestrian/cyclist route. This looks like it will be delivered regardless so would be at no cost to the road project. There could be an argument to be made that the CPO corridor should be wide enough to allow for a rail line instead. The route options for the N17 are out for consultation at the minute.

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Ambition hasn't delivered anything in the west for quite some time, how far would back would you have to go for a major infrastructure investment of national importance...Shannon Airport? Ardnacrusha?

What the hell are you talking about?

Ever heard of Knock Airport?

Ever heard of the M6, the M18, the M17?

Gas pipelines to the West of Ireland including Tuam and Galway city?

Or, if they aren't current enough for you, how about the Turlough-Westport dual carriageway, currently under construction?

Of course, we could have built more had we not squandered over 100 million on a barely-used line between Ennis and Athenry.

westtip wrote: »

Plus the new transatlantic cable making landfall at Killala, which opens up huge data processing, cloud hosting etc opportunities.....but of course we don't want data processing plants the new minister wants to bring back Asahi!!!!!

Unfortunately, while data centres might provide a lot of jobs during construction, they don't employ too many people when they're up and running.

We'll definitely need freight trains to carry all that data around though!

serfboard wrote: »

Unfortunately, while data centres might provide a lot of jobs during construction, they don't employ too many people when they're up and running.

We'll definitely need freight trains to carry all that data around though!

Cloud hosting and software houses will benefit greatly from this infrastructure though but of course I am forgetting what West on Track said years ago:

West on Track July 20th 2009 The Western Rail Corridor has already created 400 jobs in the construction phase and will deliver many thousands of jobs in private sector companies, once operational.

You couldn't make it up.

serfboard wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about?

Ever heard of Knock Airport?

Ever heard of the M6, the M18, the M17?

Gas pipelines to the West of Ireland including Tuam and Galway city?

Or, if they aren't current enough for you, how about the Turlough-Westport dual carriageway, currently under construction?

Of course, we could have built more had we not squandered over 100 million on a barely-used line between Ennis and Athenry.

OK, my point was poorly argued but it stands that the west of Ireland does not get enough investment to support sustained economic growth in comparison to other regions.

I've heard of Knock Airport, I've heard that the locals had to start building it themselves before they got government support. I'm only here to discuss things tbh I'm not keen on grabbing a shovel and laying tarmac or railway myself

intellectual dosser wrote: »

OK, my point was poorly argued but it stands that the west of Ireland does not get enough investment to support sustained economic growth in comparison to other regions.

I've heard of Knock Airport, I've heard that the locals had to start building it themselves before they got government support. I'm only here to discuss things tbh I'm not keen on grabbing a shovel and laying tarmac or railway myself

That is a fact. I saw the documentary about. Jim Mitchell from Dublin complaining about spending money on an airport. It sounded so petty and begrudging. Fr horan was saying then what everyone is saying now. The only difference is that nobody puts I investment in the West in to action

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I was saying they should forget about the cycle path alongside a busy road, focus on the greenway on the former rail line. The hard core diehard road cycling brigade will be on the 2+2 road anyway, where they are permitted. I'm saying that the rail advocates should be looking for an opportunity here as the northern part of the WRC is as good as gone.

I've been involved in enough campaigns & groups to know bad advice when I see it.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Additional stops proposed that will greatly improve the commuter options for Limerick. A park and ride at Cratloe would be beneficial for Shannon residents.

Audio included in the link.

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-news/three-new-stops-proposed-for-limerick-to-ennis-rail-line/

Good idea it will create more commuter traffic on the pre-existing Limerick-Ennis line, mind you are they putting in passing loops for the express intercity trains from Limerick to Galway? I guess not, so the "intercity" trains will get slower.

westtip wrote: »

Good idea it will create more commuter traffic on the pre-existing Limerick-Ennis line, mind you are they putting in passing loops for the express intercity trains from Limerick to Galway? I guess not, so the "intercity" trains will get slower.

Why would you do that? There are already passing loops at Ennis, Gort, and Athenry.

westtip wrote: »

Its not on the WRC its on the pre-existing Ennis/Limerick commuter line, just as Oranmore is not on the WRC it's on the pre-existing the Athenry - Galway commuter line.

Oh yeah, sorry!! I forgot that!!

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Totally agree. Ennis to Limerick is NOT part of the WRC, except when it floods at Ballycar, at which point it is properly considered part of the WRC. But only then.

Luckily enough bicycles are impervious to water and can cut right through said floods :pac: