N25 - Carrigtwohill to Midleton [route options published]

niloc1951 · 16-10-2020 5:22pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

There's frequent crashes on the section immediately West of Carrigtohill. Even if they were looking at that stretch it would make more sense to me.

There are two primary reasons for that and neither have anything to do with the quality of the road.

The two reasons are:
a) Hooligan behaviour by some drivers.
b) The presence of slow-moving agricultural and construction machinery.

If it's to have a motorway 120km/h speed limit make it a Motorway and let cyclists, L drivers and slow-moving machinery use the parallel L3004 / L3680 (the old N25).
It's only asking for trouble to have such a traffic mix on a road with a 120km/h speed limit.

hans aus dtschl · 16-10-2020 8:54pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

If it's to have a motorway 120km/h speed limit make it a Motorway and let cyclists, L drivers and slow-moving machinery use the parallel L3004 / L3680 (the old N25).
It's only asking for trouble to have such a traffic mix on a road with a 120km/h speed limit.

Yes I believe that's exactly the motivation: they want an M-status road and a new junction. And hey presto, the land is ready for development.

The problem is that the LADP doesn't see an upgrade of the parallel routes.

For me (and maybe everyone here?) the obvious solution is upgrading the Ballyrichard road to work as a distributor. Tie existing houses into this and the new WaterRock interchange. Plan to continue a bypass (not distributor) around the North East of Midleton, since the current bypass is now a congested development corridor.

If TII are allowed to upgrade that local road then great. But if they don't, then it's a mostly pointless exercise compared with the other issues in the area. There isn't a hope in hell that the existing slow machinery will detour all around and through the centre of Carrigtohill and Midleton. There will be tractors with a sticker hauling grain all day on the M25.

Edit: my own personal hobby horse of sustainable transport goes out the window without a proper distributor road. It's a PFO route for cyclists and walkers in its current format unfortunately.
And the addition of a WaterRock junction without a WaterRock railway station means lots and lots more cars. Absolutely nobody is going to walk to the existing train stations from WaterRock.

hans aus dtschl · 16-10-2020 8:55pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

There are two primary reasons for that and neither have anything to do with the quality of the road.

The two reasons are:
a) Hooligan behaviour by some drivers.
a) Hooligan behaviour by some drivers.

Fixed your post, IMO.
The antics on the section between Carrigtohill and Little Island are exceptional.

spacetweek · 16-10-2020 9:28pm

Paddico wrote: »

Looks out of date

Sorry, link fixed: https://www.tii.ie/roads-tolling/projects-and-improvements/Major-Active-Projects.pdf

niloc1951 · 17-10-2020 4:58pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Fixed your post, IMO.
The antics on the section between Carrigtohill and Little Island are exceptional.

My post didn't need 'fixing'
My point b is quite valid. The presence of slow-moving machinery on a two-lane road with a 120km/h speed limit is madness. Such mixing of traffic regularly results in a moving road-block and all the fast moving traffic is forced into lane 2 with the result that lane 2 becomes a queue travelling at perhaps 90 km/h with 'new arrivals' arriving at a higher speed often braking aggressively resulting in the regularly reported crashes.
Allowing such machinery, which is not subject to roadworthiness testing and may be under the control of a person who has never undertaken a practical driving test, to mix with other traffic travelling at motorway speeds is the height of folly.
As a side issue, drivers who might remain in lane 1 are not allowed into lane 2 when they need to overtake the slow-moving road-block and through frustration may move into lane2 when it is unsafe to do so.

hans aus dtschl · 19-10-2020 10:48am

niloc1951 wrote: »

My post didn't need 'fixing'
My point b is quite valid. The presence of slow-moving machinery on a two-lane road with a 120km/h speed limit is madness. Such mixing of traffic regularly results in a moving road-block and all the fast moving traffic is forced into lane 2 with the result that lane 2 becomes a queue travelling at perhaps 90 km/h with 'new arrivals' arriving at a higher speed often braking aggressively resulting in the regularly reported crashes.
Allowing such machinery, which is not subject to roadworthiness testing and may be under the control of a person who has never undertaken a practical driving test, to mix with other traffic travelling at motorway speeds is the height of folly.
As a side issue, drivers who might remain in lane 1 are not allowed into lane 2 when they need to overtake the slow-moving road-block and through frustration may move into lane2 when it is unsafe to do so.

Your point is valid, there should be no need for slow moving vehicles on the N25 West of Carrigtohill. And the mix is absolutely a hazard. I was just tongue-in-cheek emphasizing the volume of problems I've personally experienced on the N25 West of Carrigtohill from bad behaviour. People doing 140kmh+, people driving continuously in the right-hand-lane, people overtaking while intending to take an oncoming exit, etc.

And of course slow vehicles (40kmh) driving in the hard shoulder, half-in half-out of the hard shoulder or in the standard lane as a rolling roadblock.

hans aus dtschl · 27-10-2020 4:45pm

More information on this scheme: it's open for consultation.
https://www.corkrdo.ie/news/n25-carrigtohill-to-midleton-upgrade-scheme/

It does not include the Lakeview Roundabout.
(If anyone can now convince me that this isn't a land development facilitation exercise, I'll be impressed.)

Official scheme website here:
https://www.n25carrigtohillmidleton.ie/

hans aus dtschl · 27-10-2020 4:53pm

Red Route:
https://www.n25carrigtohillmidleton.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Red-Route.pdf

Blue Route:
https://www.n25carrigtohillmidleton.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Blue-Route.pdf

Brown Route:
https://www.n25carrigtohillmidleton.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Brown-Route.pdf

Purple Route:
https://www.n25carrigtohillmidleton.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Purple-Route.pdf

marno21 · 27-10-2020 5:36pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

More information on this scheme: it's open for consultation.
https://www.corkrdo.ie/news/n25-carrigtohill-to-midleton-upgrade-scheme/

It does not include the Lakeview Roundabout.
(If anyone can now convince me that this isn't a land development facilitation exercise, I'll be impressed.)

Official scheme website here:
https://www.n25carrigtohillmidleton.ie/

I feel like we'll never agree on it but TII/NRA have a longstanding policy of modernising the stretches of 1980s dual carriageway outstanding around the country. In recent years, the N7 Naas Road, N4 Lucan BP, N4 The Downs, parts of the N11 around Bray, the N18 at Cratloe etc.

To my knowledge, this is the last stretch of national road DC at 100km/h with median gaps. The 4km stretch to be upgraded here is a glorified mess with the brick wall verges, housing fronting onto the road, median gaps, T junctions, variable with HS, the half arsed 2009 median closures etc.

It does need upgrading and this corrects some of the poor slip roads at J4 and J5 too.

Regarding development, the Amgen site would be a useful site to develop for industrial uses, there is a cluster of industry around there with Merck, the Tullagreen IDA site, Little Island etc. However development around there should exploit the rail line, and that's a LA issue rather than a TII issue.

hans aus dtschl · 27-10-2020 6:23pm

marno21 wrote: »

The 4km stretch to be upgraded here is a glorified mess with the brick wall verges, housing fronting onto the road, median gaps, T junctions, variable with HS, the half arsed 2009 median closures etc.

It does need upgrading and this corrects some of the poor slip roads at J4 and J5 too.

No question on all of the above

marno21 wrote: »

Regarding development, the Amgen site would be a useful site to develop for industrial uses, there is a cluster of industry around there with Merck, the Tullagreen IDA site, Little Island etc. However development around there should exploit the rail line, and that's a LA issue rather than a TII issue.

I suspect the primary objective here is actually housing NE of the proposed new junction Marno. Check out Midleton UEA. It's going to be a very large area.

The Amgen site gets touted for everything but we're not really that short of development land out East, and AFAIK the Amgen site doesn't have ideal ground conditions. When Little Island gets a new junction at the West, the Mitsui Denman site and Harbour Point site will be hot property.

Chris_5339762 · 27-10-2020 6:55pm

marno21 wrote: »

To my knowledge, this is the last stretch of national road DC at 100km/h with median gaps. The 4km stretch to be upgraded here is a glorified mess with the brick wall verges, housing fronting onto the road, median gaps, T junctions, variable with HS, the half arsed 2009 median closures etc.

Same with the A1 from Newry to Sprucefield. Its littered with median crossings (and is far, far, far worse than this section of N25).

These plans are largely similar to the 2006/2007 plans - opening development land and somewhat fixing up the Midleton West junction which has the shortest merge in Western Europe.

marno21 · 27-10-2020 7:16pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

No question on all of the above

I suspect the primary objective here is actually housing NE of the proposed new junction Marno. Check out Midleton UEA. It's going to be a very large area.

The Amgen site gets touted for everything but we're not really that short of development land out East, and AFAIK the Amgen site doesn't have ideal ground conditions. When Little Island gets a new junction at the West, the Mitsui Denman site and Harbour Point site will be hot property.

I do bow to your superior local knowledge regarding the Amgen site.

I am aware of the Water Rock plan too - however TII have a different view here and will be providing input should the development there continue. They shouldn't leave the N25 between Carrigtwohill and Midleton in the mess its in because of the potential for the council to ruin it. Maybe a better option might be upgrading J4 and J5 and using the existing N25 as a two way single carriageway between Barryscourt and the junction near Abernethys.

If there was one thing I would prefer here, it would be that the N25 had a masterplan for east of Barryscourt. This scheme is an ad hoc road development given that there's issues further east that need rectifying in the short/medium term. The lack of any plan as to what is actually to be done east of J5 is disappointing, even if the actual construction got long fingered.

Pete_Cavan · 27-10-2020 9:59pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Red Route:
https://www.n25carrigtohillmidleton.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Red-Route.pdf

Is the proposal here to use the existing westbound lanes as a local road, the existing eastbound lanes become the new westbound lanes of M25 and then add another two lanes to the south which become the eastbound lanes? Difficult to tell whats new there.

hans aus dtschl · 27-10-2020 11:24pm

marno21 wrote: »

I do bow to your superior local knowledge regarding the Amgen site. I am aware of the Water Rock plan too - however TII have a different view here and will be providing input should the development there continue. They shouldn't leave the N25 between Carrigtwohill and Midleton in the mess its in because of the potential for the council to ruin it. Maybe a better option might be upgrading J4 and J5 and using the existing N25 as a two way single carriageway between Barryscourt and the junction near Abernethys.

If there was one thing I would prefer here, it would be that the N25 had a masterplan for east of Barryscourt. This scheme is an ad hoc road development given that there's issues further east that need rectifying in the short/medium term. The lack of any plan as to what is actually to be done east of J5 is disappointing, even if the actual construction got long fingered.

I don't know very much about it but older lads in the area say it's porous limestone rock, big cavities underneath.

I fully agree with fixing up the N25, and I would like to see the J5 Midleton West junction upgraded. There's queuing on it now which is the biggest issue: they can't put in more houses accessed from J5 because of the queuing. The NTA and TII have put a halt on anything later than phase one of the UEA going ahead.

There should of course be a masterplan for East of Barryscourt. There's huge issues East of J5 getting ignored, because it's not really important to the cause of opening up the Waterrock land parcel that Cork Co Co themselves put together. Since February, the Golf Course is closed. They're sitting on a large land bank and not progressing its development.

But what happens East of J5 after this scheme? There will be tractors and cyclists and a lot of East Cork and Refinery traffic on it. That's not dealt with, but a new junction to access Waterrock is included in 3 of the 4 proposals.
And East of Lakeview has enough safety issues to keep you going for weeks, if you wanted to look at it. But that's not being looked at.

hans aus dtschl · 27-10-2020 11:41pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Is the proposal here to use the existing westbound lanes as a local road, the existing eastbound lanes become the new westbound lanes of M25 and then add another two lanes to the south which become the eastbound lanes? Difficult to tell whats new there.

The drawings are poor unfortunately.
I think the Eastbound (towards Midleton) being used as a local road.
Westbound (towards Cork) being used as two lanes, and two additional lanes to the south of that. But the space is barely available at Milebush, and it's a serious squeeze at Castlerock avenue.

I don't hate this red design, but don't like the weird T junction at Hedgy Boreen. And I don't know what the plan for J5 is. If it's closed, then the new junction will see heavy use. If it's staying, then there will be queuing on a motorway.
I also dislike that they're building a link road on the link road. Just in principle, I hate that we've sunk to that level of crappiness. The whole reason J5 is in this mess is because of the development that was allowed there. That link road is only a few years old, it's a disgrace. And here we are with another massive capital project to facilitate development West of Midleton, just because we're doing things by halves.

As I've said earlier in the thread, I partly wish they'd just upgrade the Ballyrichard and/or Ballintubbrid roads as local distributors.

Edit:
But hey, at least we're no longer talking about traffic lights at the Amgen site!!!

niloc1951 · 27-10-2020 11:50pm

Not wishing to hijack the thread but a few km's east of Lakeview acurate signage is required, despite what they indicate the road is not curving to the left it's curving to the right click here for the 100m sign and here for the 250m sign
It's unbelievable that those signs haven't been corrected since they were installed over 10 years ago

.

marno21 · 28-10-2020 12:51am

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The drawings are poor unfortunately.
I think the Eastbound (towards Midleton) being used as a local road.
Westbound (towards Cork) being used as two lanes, and two additional lanes to the south of that. But the space is barely available at Milebush, and it's a serious squeeze at Castlerock avenue.

I don't hate this red design, but don't like the weird T junction at Hedgy Boreen. And I don't know what the plan for J5 is. If it's closed, then the new junction will see heavy use. If it's staying, then there will be queuing on a motorway.
I also dislike that they're building a link road on the link road. Just in principle, I hate that we've sunk to that level of crappiness. The whole reason J5 is in this mess is because of the development that was allowed there. That link road is only a few years old, it's a disgrace. And here we are with another massive capital project to facilitate development West of Midleton, just because we're doing things by halves.

As I've said earlier in the thread, I partly wish they'd just upgrade the Ballyrichard and/or Ballintubbrid roads as local distributors.

Edit:
But hey, at least we're no longer talking about traffic lights at the Amgen site!!!

The red option would appear to "optimise" the west facing slips at J5. The east facing slips stay as they are though.

I favour the red option personally. It's the least beneficial for NW of Midleton sprawl, sorts the mess directly east of Carrigtwohill and seems to have the best all round qualities. Open to criticism of that position.

hans aus dtschl · 28-10-2020 9:50am

I'm still getting my head around the variations, but there seems to be minimal difference between Blue and Purple.
I like that these two continue straight at Hedgy Boreen. The local distributor road is more valuable to me in that configuration.

All designs appear to deal with medians and houses and all create a link-road-link-road, so probably worth calling out what I see as the "differences":
Carrigtohill Eastbound slip
Hedgy Boreen upggrade design
New "Amgen/Waterrock" junction placement
J5 queuing/merging

None of these designs appear to deal with the tractor/cyclist question. Really not sure what they're thinking about these: through Midleton Main Street, or use the N25 East of J5?

hans aus dtschl · 31-10-2020 12:05am

More detail from the brochure:

Red Option
New central interchange at Ballyadam (with the closure of Barryscourt Interchange east facing slip roads);
Blue Option
New central interchange at Milebush (with the closure of Oatencake Interchange west facing slip roads);
Purple Option
New central interchange at Milebush (with the closure of Oatencake Interchange west facing slip roads) and an alternative route for Middleton [SP] traffic accessing the new interchange
Brown Option
A Traffic Management Option which focuses on closure of the gaps in the central median and rerouting of residential accesses to Local Roads but does not have a central interchange

marno21 · 24-11-2020 8:45pm

Celtic Interconnector converter station is to be at the Amgen site at Ballyadam, Carrigtwohill

Interesting quote:

Echo wrote:

The consultation process resulted in a preference for Ballyadam as the most appropriate location for the new station given the existing and anticipated industrial and commercial activity in the area

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-site-chosen-for-converter-station-for-1-billion-electricity-project-799228c2-7107-4116-bb21-bbff6b45b1b6-ds

hans aus dtschl · 24-11-2020 9:31pm

marno21 wrote: »

Celtic Interconnector converter station is to be at the Amgen site at Ballyadam, Carrigtwohill

Interesting quote:

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-site-chosen-for-converter-station-for-1-billion-electricity-project-799228c2-7107-4116-bb21-bbff6b45b1b6-ds

Yeah, the Amgen side is all planned/hoped to be the next CoCo industrial sprawl-park after Little Island, the WaterRock side will be a sprawly housing estate.

And a shiny new road will mean everyone can drive there.

marno21 · 23-03-2021 1:15am

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40248605.html

Preferred route due in May

marno21 · 23-04-2021 5:23pm

Tender out for ground investigation works

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/187478/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

marno21 · 21-07-2021 9:48pm

https://www.n25carrigtohillmidleton.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/N25-Brochure-final-english.pdf

Preferred route published.

Chris_5339762 · 22-07-2021 4:58pm

Interesting. Cheapest option. Hopefully they'll be able to improve the Midleton West sliproads somewhat. Surprised they were lazy and didn't do an all-out new Midleton West junction. Silly decision.

hans aus dtschl · 13-09-2021 4:11pm

This was the option I expected from discussions with the team. But I don't really see how this option deals with some of the biggest issues: slow moving agri machinery, cyclists, etc.

And I'm still baffled a year later, by the motivation to upgrade this section but not the Lakeview Roundabout, Midleton-Castlemartyr, Castlemartyr, or Killeagh sections of the N25.

Chris_5339762 · 14-09-2021 10:43am

The lack of investment in the Cork section of the N25 has always baffled me. Its not that they haven't had funding, its that they haven't even considered it. They linked the 1980s Midleton bypass to Dunkettle and then stopped.

Cork to Youghal should have been DC years and years ago.

Edit: AND IT IS STILL NOT EVEN BEING CONSIDERED. The best we will get is a half assed Castlemartyr relief road... nothing for Killeagh.

hans aus dtschl · 14-09-2021 12:21pm

Yep it's a very strange one for me too.

Anyone who knows me on here will know I'm hardly a staunch advocate of "more roads projects" but the N25 is a fairly low standard interurban corridor. Obviously not as important as the N20 or N22 in terms of strategic infrastructure, but there is no alternative transport method on the corridor. Maybe upgrading the N24 is the "preferred option" for Cork-Waterford, but the N25 isn't just going to go away!

Pete_Cavan · 14-09-2021 4:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117885603#Comment_117885603

Local traffic and machinery will be accommodated on a new road provided on the northern side of the existing road pavement. An active travel route will also be provided alongside.

As for the N25 further east, I think Lakeview is a much bigger project than most expect. I dont think it will be possible to have a junction there if the roundabout is removed. The N25 could fly over the existing road and a new junction and link roads provided further east. Obviously building this would be a nightmare as the road will have to remain live and there is very little space.

I think Midleton to east of Killeagh, all the eggs seem to be in a one large project basket. The problem with that is they can't do anything else in the meantime and that large project will be very expensive and is well down the list. It would be better to shift policy build SC bypasses of Castlemartye and Killeagh in a sooner timeframe and have that done. Waiting for a full DC which may never come is not a great option.

KrisW1001 · 15-09-2021 8:45am

East of Midleton, there’s very little justification for a dual carriageway. The reason it backs up is because of the bottleneck movements in Castlemartyr, not because there’s a lack of capacity: the section between Killeagh and Castlemartyr is able to accommodate the volumes of traffic using it, but that traffic gets caught in Castlemartyr itself. A relief road in Castlemartyr would make a huge difference to this section, without the cost and disruption of a dual carriageway.

Lakeview is a major problem because there’s so little space around. I agree with Pete_Cavan, and I suspect that any upgrade would result in Lakeview becoming a limited-access junction with N25 (join for Cork, leave for Midleton only): that would fit my own experience of traffic at the roundabout.

Pete_Cavan · 15-09-2021 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117893230#Comment_117893230

I don't think any sort of a junction would fit there tbh. I'd say TII think this too, hence their reluctance to tackle it. The existing situation is a bottleneck but it isn't particularly dangerous.

omicron · 16-09-2021 8:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117893230#Comment_117893230

A large volume of traffic is currently diverting via Mogeely to avoid Castlemartyr, so a single carriageway relief road would likely end up over capacity in a short time if this traffic rejoined the main line.

Definitely can't justify dual carriageway east of Killeagh though.

Chris_5339762 · 16-09-2021 10:35am

I don't know the AADTs, but I'd certainly say 2+2 from Midleton to the far side of Castlemartyr. Its always ridiculously busy. As for Killeagh, its only a few extra km, so extend 2+2 to the far side.

Then you might as well go to the Youghal bypass. That could then easily be updated to 2+2 (They had originally planned this).

But then you run into the Youghal Bridge. That'll eventually have to be replaced, and that would be nice and expensive to do.

KrisW1001 · 16-09-2021 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117898051#Comment_117898051

That traffic going via Mogeely is what creates the problems in Killeagh.

If the single-carriageway road west of the Two Mile Inn can accommodate the traffic it carries, then a relief road at Castlemartyr can too. Castlemartyr itself needs a relief road to stop its main street being used as the road to Garryvoe, and this will have to be done regardless of what is done for N25.

hans aus dtschl · 20-09-2021 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890703#Comment_117890703

The new local road will join into the Oatencake Interchange, so they're proposing either sending agri machinery back to the Lakeview via the dual carriageway from Oatencake interchange built up area (poor idea), or through Main Street built up area (worse idea). The elephant in the room is always going to be this section between Oatencake and East-of-Lakeview. So the big N25 problems aren't occurring on the stretch that's being upgraded by this scheme, other than the tailbacks at Oatencake Interchange.

Lakeview, Castlemartyr, Killeagh are the biggest N25 problems I experience. And no question Lakeview is absolutely a huge project.

But from what I can see, this scheme is primarily about getting a new junction into Ballyadam/Waterrock to develop the lands there. And that looks like poor use of public money: prioritising a road interchange as your primary transport mode to a new residential and employment area 15km from the city centre. I could be wrong, perhaps this will be the first urban area in Cork where they hit their target mode shares...but I won't hold my breath to be honest.

And even with that land development objective in mind, surely you'd get more bang-for-buck putting your distributor road a little further north, nearer to the train line, such that it serves more of the proposed urban area? In the current design, the new distributor will be pinned up against the existing dual carriageway, so only one side of it will be useful as a distributor.

hans aus dtschl · 20-09-2021 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117893230#Comment_117893230

Exactly yes, I agree with you both and I think Lakeview needs to become limited in exactly the way you describe.

And as Pete_Cavan says, a full junction East of the existing Lakeview.

There actually is quite a lot of space immediately South East of the existing interchange, but I suspect a new interchange would need to be even further east?

Chris_5339762 · 20-09-2021 1:57pm

Trouble is, South East of Lakeview is an old Georgian style house, Lakeview House. It needs TLC, but I don't think carving it, and the lands, up to do that will be a runner.

Flyover the roundabout, roughly following the current line of the N25, then put a new junction slightly south linking to the new Whitegate road (if that gets built) and the current N25.

And maybe continue 2+2 to Youghal while you're at it!!!

Edit: Maybe Dungarvan while the diggers are out

marno21 · 14-10-2021 9:49pm

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/199880/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Tender out for topographical survey

marno21 · 08-11-2021 6:30pm

LIDAR/Orthophotgraphy/Drainage survey out to tender

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/201614/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

This seems to be moving at pace

Pete_Cavan · 08-11-2021 6:38pm

Given this project will happen within the existing road space plus a strip to the side (plus the land required for the new junction), does it have to go through the full planning process with oral hearings, etc? Or can they shorten the process?

spacetweek · 08-11-2021 10:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137512#Comment_118137512

Dunno if that makes any difference

Pete_Cavan · 08-11-2021 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138584#Comment_118138584

There must be some threshold above which oral hearings and the like come into play, what was the process for the multiple reasonably large National Secondary road projects (N52, N55, N56, etc.)? This project will affect much fewer people than a new build offline road.

marno21 · 05-01-2022 11:22am

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40778382.html

OpinionN · 05-01-2022 11:49am

But....this project wasn't supposed to be a development facilitator, right? This was a "SAFETY" project they said. They went to great lengths to say that this project was for safety of vulnerable road users, and that it happened to also open up development land in the area. Nobody was proposing this road upgrade to facilitate development atall atall. I think you can see what I'm saying.

The provision of a distributor network in the Carrigtohill/Midleton area should be a LA project, with assistance from NTA/TII. Plugging all residential and commercial developments in the area directly into the N25 would have been highly irresponsible. Particularly when there's an active rail line on the corridor.

Given the care they took to ignore the real road safety and traffic issues in the East Cork area, I felt it was an extremely cynical project.

spacetweek · 08-01-2022 9:51pm

This wasn't mentioned in the 2022 Allocations announcement.

OpinionN · 10-01-2022 2:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441148#Comment_118441148

Yep mothballed I believe. I think there's a discussion after starting on Castlemartyr/Killeagh though. Both would be higher priorities, as far as I'm concerned. I'd like to see the Carrigtohill-Midleton corridor developed properly, but not under the guise of some "helping out pedestrians" roads upgrade project.

Pete_Cavan · 10-01-2022 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118449223#Comment_118449223

My theory is TII are reluctant to do anything on Castlemartyr/Killeagh until Lakeview RAB and issues west of Midleton are sorted. It seems political interference has seen money allocated to Castlemartyr/Killeagh for next year but it is still several years away from a planning application regardless.

Imo they'd be better off continuing with Carrigtwohill to Midleton for now, given it is smaller and further down the line. That €100k would move the project further forward than it will Castlemartyr/Killeagh. It's the kind of project which should be moved through planning and then see where we are in terms of funding. The cost is relatively low, it is mostly online and addresses a safety issue so it has a chance in the short/medium term.

Chris_5339762 · 10-01-2022 10:04pm

There is still the Ryan problem though.

Actually I suspect that the low commitments for 2022 are partly due to the built-in 2:1 ratio of spending between public transport and roads. They are fast realising that due to lack of planning and NIMBYs there aren't really any public transport schemes ready to spend that level of money on.

Hibernicis · 11-01-2022 9:37am

Multi-million euro upgrade of Cork road shelved due to lack of funding

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40782291.html

OpinionN · 11-01-2022 10:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118452156#Comment_118452156

I believe that to be the case too: they don't have enough sustainable transport schemes ready. Very frustrating really, from both perspectives (roads & sustainable transport).

N25 - Carrigtwohill to Midleton [route options published]

Comments

Multi-million euro upgrade of Cork road shelved due to lack of funding