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Brewdog delivery seized by customs

  • 22-10-2020 5:18pm
    #1
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭


    Just a heads up to anyone who like me has been using parcel Wizard to get shipments of beer from the UK. This is my third shipment, the first two were delivered without issue. It was picked in customs in Athlone. I've not replied to the letter, anyone know how much duty is to be paid on 14 litres of alcohol?


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Comments

  • #2
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It's dependent on the ABV, but they may not let you pay anyway - you need a licence to import alcohol but they often allow you to pay the without one the first time.


  • #3
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭Eleven Benevolent Elephants


    The UK is still in the EU customs union until the end of the year.

    What is the legality bid seizing goods for which duty has already been paid?

    You only need a licence to import from outside the EU. Intra EU movement of alcohol is not technically an "import".

    You might as well "import" from Helsinki as Tralee.


  • #4
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    The UK is still in the EU customs union until the end of the year.

    What is the legality bid seizing goods for which duty has already been paid?

    You only need a licence to import from outside the EU. Intra EU movement of alcohol is not technically an "import".

    You might as well "import" from Helsinki as Tralee.

    I understand why it's lifted. Excise duty isn't paid on it, it's paid to the Queen not Irish revenue


  • #5
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭Eleven Benevolent Elephants


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    I understand why it's lifted. Excise duty isn't paid on it, it's paid to the Queen not Irish revenue

    Doesn't bother matter. That's the spirit of the EU.

    Single market. The single market has existed since 1973.

    Are you telling me I'd be breaking the law if brought 100 litres of beer from Newry?


  • #6
    Quackster
    Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    The UK is still in the EU customs union until the end of the year.

    What is the legality bid seizing goods for which duty has already been paid?

    You only need a licence to import from outside the EU. Intra EU movement of alcohol is not technically an "import".

    You might as well "import" from Helsinki as Tralee.
    EU law. A private citizen can only move alcohol from one EU state to another if they carry it on their own person and it's intended for their own personal use. Otherwise you are liable for whatever excise duty (and VAT on that excise duty) applies in the state you bring the alcohol into.


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  • #7
    Quackster
    Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    Doesn't bother matter. That's the spirit of the EU.

    Single market. The single market has existed since 1973.

    Are you telling me I'd be breaking the law if brought 100 litres of beer from Newry?

    The Single Market came into effect on 1st January 1993.

    If you personally being 100 letters of beer from Newry across the border, that's absolutely fine. For now. All will change on 1st January next year though.


  • #8
    BeerNut
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭BeerNut


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    Single market. The single market has existed since 1973.
    The single market doesn't excuse you from paying taxes that are due. All BrewDog had to do was set themselves up with Irish Revenue and pay the Irish taxes on goods shipped to Ireland, but they didn't. It's on them, but their customers suffer the consequences.
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    Are you telling me I'd be breaking the law if brought 100 litres of beer from Newry?
    No, because there's an exemption for goods you bring yourself. If it was shipped to you rather than you bringing it, and the Irish tax wan't paid, then you'd be breaking the law.

    My beer blog | The Twitter | My other beer blog



  • #9
    Vestiapx
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    Quackster wrote: »
    The Single Market came into effect on 1st January 1993.

    If you personally being 100 letters of beer from Newry across the border, that's absolutely fine. For now. All will change on 1st January next year though.
    They are hardly gonna stop us bringing our own beer accross.

    Edit

    Oh

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/travel_to_ireland/customs_regulations_for_travellers.html


  • #10
    Eleven Benevolent Elephants
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭Eleven Benevolent Elephants


    Quackster wrote: »
    EU law. A private citizen can only move alcohol from one EU state to another if they carry it on their own person and it's intended for their own personal use. Otherwise you are liable for whatever excise duty (and VAT on that excise duty) applies in the state you bring the alcohol into.

    👠Wasn't aware of that.

    So I can bring a horsebox of champagne from France in the ferry? It's up to them ton prove it's not for my use.


  • #11
    Quackster
    Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »
    👠Wasn't aware of that.

    So I can bring a horsebox of champagne from France in the ferry? It's up to them ton prove it's not for my use.
    Exactly. Lots of folk (used to) travel over on the ferry to France to load up the boot/van/horse-box with cheap French wine. There are plenty of establishments at the French ports specifically set up to cater for this market.


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  • #12
    ec18
    Registered Users Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭ec18


    so the excise doesn't have anything to do with EU law. it's a revenue thing. The op using parcel motel suggests he's using the uk delivery rather than paying for shipping to Ireland which brewdog do offer.

    And on the horsebox from france it's actually up to you to prove it's personal consumption they just have to have reasonable grounds to suspect it's not for personal consumption


  • #13
    Quackster
    Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    ec18 wrote: »
    so the excise doesn't have anything to do with EU law. it's a revenue thing. The op using parcel motel suggests he's using the uk delivery rather than paying for shipping to Ireland which brewdog do offer.

    And on the horsebox from france it's actually up to you to prove it's personal consumption they just have to have reasonable grounds to suspect it's not for personal consumption
    It is EU law that dictates whether excise is applicable or not.

    Yes, above a certain quantity, the onus falls on you to prove personal use.

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/alcohol-tobacco-cash/indexamp_en.htm


  • #14
    Quackster
    Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    Also of note on that link I posted, from 1st January next year, as things stand the legal duty-free limit (per person) on the amount of alcohol that we can bring back from the UK (including NI) will be:

    4 litres of still wine and

    16 litres of beer and

    a total of 1 litre of spirits over 22 % vol. or 1 litre of undenatured alcohol (ethyl alcohol) of 80% vol. (or over) or 2 litres of fortified or sparkling wine.


  • #15
    Ciarrai76
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ciarrai76


    How will it work from Jan 2021 if someone from the North orders alcohol from republic? Will anything change there?


  • #16
    BeerNut
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭BeerNut


    Ciarrai76 wrote: »
    How will it work from Jan 2021 if someone from the North orders alcohol from republic? Will anything change there?
    It's not yet known but I doubt much will change: UK excise is still due on anything crossing the border. I've no idea how strictly HMRC enforces this though.

    My beer blog | The Twitter | My other beer blog



  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    ec18 wrote: »
    so the excise doesn't have anything to do with EU law. it's a revenue thing. The op using parcel motel suggests he's using the uk delivery rather than paying for shipping to Ireland which brewdog do offer.

    And on the horsebox from france it's actually up to you to prove it's personal consumption they just have to have reasonable grounds to suspect it's not for personal consumption

    Ultimately incorrect. It's for a judge to decide if you fight it. A generally held view is anything that can be 'reasonable' consumed within a year and a day or before the expiration date.

    Too many people just accept the argument from customs and walk away from their stuff. In reality that's just numbers that customs have decided in as a line in the sand. I can't locate it now but Josephine Feehily admitted it before in an interview.


  • #18
    irish_goat
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭irish_goat


    With regards Brewdog specifically, they have apparently hired PWC to look into some solutions to the customs issue.


  • #19
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Just a heads up to anyone who like me has been using parcel Wizard to get shipments of beer from the UK. This is my third shipment, the first two were delivered without issue. It was picked in customs in Athlone. I've not replied to the letter, anyone know how much duty is to be paid on 14 litres of alcohol?

    There should be a contact number or email address on the letter, contact them and tell them you would like to know how much it will cost to have the beer forwarded on to you.
    It is calculated by a formula they have which uses the strength of the alcohol and the volume.
    They are just Customs officials doing their job and you won’t be facing any prosecutions or fines.
    They’ll explain the options open to you and if you pay the duty you’ll have your beer sent to you and get a receipt posted.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • #20
    Francie Barrett
    Registered Users Posts: 16,373 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    This happened to me as well. You will be asked to pay the additional excise duties on the beer.

    It's a real sickened, but my own fault.


  • #21
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    There should be a contact number or email address on the letter, contact them and tell them you would like to know how much it will cost to have the beer forwarded on to you.
    It is calculated by a formula they have which uses the strength of the alcohol and the volume.
    They are just Customs officials doing their job and you won’t be facing any prosecutions or fines.
    They’ll explain the options open to you and if you pay the duty you’ll have your beer sent to you and get a receipt posted.

    Yeah the letter says I must write to them giving my name and address. I'm gonna do that today.


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  • #22
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Just a heads up to anyone who like me has been using parcel Wizard to get shipments of beer from the UK. This is my third shipment, the first two were delivered without issue. It was picked in customs in Athlone. I've not replied to the letter, anyone know how much duty is to be paid on 14 litres of alcohol?

    14 litres?

    That would be 280 litres of 5% beer or almost 900x330ml cans.

    But I presume 14l of beer

    Brewdog send in branded boxes, so easily seen.

    Duty not too bad, about €17 for your 14l.


  • #23
    BeerNut
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭BeerNut


    Darc19 wrote: »
    Duty not too bad, about €17 for your 14l.
    VAT is payable on top of that too.

    My beer blog | The Twitter | My other beer blog



  • #24
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Got a reply

    Excise duty and Vat is due as follows:

    Excise:                  €17.36

    Vat:                       €  9.64

    Total due:            €27.00


  • #25
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Got a reply

    Excise duty and Vat is due as follows:

    Excise:                  €17.36

    Vat:                       €  9.64

    Total due:            €27.00

    So basically you have the option to pay 2 euro a litre for your favourite beer, not too bad.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • #26
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    So basically you have the option to pay 2 euro a litre for your favourite beer, not too bad.

    Yeah makes it expensive beer but in my eyes it's a mortal sin to leave it and let a customs officer have a free house party!


  • #27
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭dubrov


    What happens if he walks away? Does it get returned to sender?


  • #28
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    dubrov wrote: »
    What happens if he walks away? Does it get returned to sender?

    Would the sender want it back ? Who'd pay carraige ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #29
    Quackster
    Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    dubrov wrote: »
    What happens if he walks away? Does it get returned to sender?
    It would be 'destroyed'.

    It seems a bit cheeky of them to be apparently charging VAT on the whole cost of the beer, rather than just the duty due, but I guess they hold all the cards.


  • #30
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Quackster wrote: »
    It would be 'destroyed'.

    You mean drank :p


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  • #31
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Quackster wrote: »
    It would be 'destroyed'.

    It seems a bit cheeky of them to be apparently charging VAT on the whole cost of the beer, rather than just the duty due, but I guess they hold all the cards.

    That's not exactly what I was told when I had a delivery seized.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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