Brewdog delivery seized by customs

Gooey Looey

Just a heads up to anyone who like me has been using parcel Wizard to get shipments of beer from the UK. This is my third shipment, the first two were delivered without issue. It was picked in customs in Athlone. I've not replied to the letter, anyone know how much duty is to be paid on 14 litres of alcohol?

L1011

It's dependent on the ABV, but they may not let you pay anyway - you need a licence to import alcohol but they often allow you to pay the without one the first time.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

The UK is still in the EU customs union until the end of the year.

What is the legality bid seizing goods for which duty has already been paid?

You only need a licence to import from outside the EU. Intra EU movement of alcohol is not technically an "import".

You might as well "import" from Helsinki as Tralee.

Gooey Looey

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

The UK is still in the EU customs union until the end of the year.

What is the legality bid seizing goods for which duty has already been paid?

You only need a licence to import from outside the EU. Intra EU movement of alcohol is not technically an "import".

You might as well "import" from Helsinki as Tralee.

I understand why it's lifted. Excise duty isn't paid on it, it's paid to the Queen not Irish revenue

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

Gooey Looey wrote: »

I understand why it's lifted. Excise duty isn't paid on it, it's paid to the Queen not Irish revenue

Doesn't bother matter. That's the spirit of the EU.

Single market. The single market has existed since 1973.

Are you telling me I'd be breaking the law if brought 100 litres of beer from Newry?

Quackster

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

The UK is still in the EU customs union until the end of the year.

What is the legality bid seizing goods for which duty has already been paid?

You only need a licence to import from outside the EU. Intra EU movement of alcohol is not technically an "import".

You might as well "import" from Helsinki as Tralee.

EU law. A private citizen can only move alcohol from one EU state to another if they carry it on their own person and it's intended for their own personal use. Otherwise you are liable for whatever excise duty (and VAT on that excise duty) applies in the state you bring the alcohol into.

Quackster

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Doesn't bother matter. That's the spirit of the EU.

Single market. The single market has existed since 1973.

Are you telling me I'd be breaking the law if brought 100 litres of beer from Newry?

The Single Market came into effect on 1st January 1993.

If you personally being 100 letters of beer from Newry across the border, that's absolutely fine. For now. All will change on 1st January next year though.

BeerNut

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Single market. The single market has existed since 1973.

The single market doesn't excuse you from paying taxes that are due. All BrewDog had to do was set themselves up with Irish Revenue and pay the Irish taxes on goods shipped to Ireland, but they didn't. It's on them, but their customers suffer the consequences.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Are you telling me I'd be breaking the law if brought 100 litres of beer from Newry?

No, because there's an exemption for goods you bring yourself. If it was shipped to you rather than you bringing it, and the Irish tax wan't paid, then you'd be breaking the law.

Vestiapx

Quackster wrote: »

The Single Market came into effect on 1st January 1993.

If you personally being 100 letters of beer from Newry across the border, that's absolutely fine. For now. All will change on 1st January next year though.

They are hardly gonna stop us bringing our own beer accross.

Edit

Oh

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/travel_to_ireland/customs_regulations_for_travellers.html

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

Quackster wrote: »

EU law. A private citizen can only move alcohol from one EU state to another if they carry it on their own person and it's intended for their own personal use. Otherwise you are liable for whatever excise duty (and VAT on that excise duty) applies in the state you bring the alcohol into.

👠Wasn't aware of that.

So I can bring a horsebox of champagne from France in the ferry? It's up to them ton prove it's not for my use.

Quackster

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

👠Wasn't aware of that.

So I can bring a horsebox of champagne from France in the ferry? It's up to them ton prove it's not for my use.

Exactly. Lots of folk (used to) travel over on the ferry to France to load up the boot/van/horse-box with cheap French wine. There are plenty of establishments at the French ports specifically set up to cater for this market.

ec18

so the excise doesn't have anything to do with EU law. it's a revenue thing. The op using parcel motel suggests he's using the uk delivery rather than paying for shipping to Ireland which brewdog do offer.

And on the horsebox from france it's actually up to you to prove it's personal consumption they just have to have reasonable grounds to suspect it's not for personal consumption

Quackster

ec18 wrote: »

so the excise doesn't have anything to do with EU law. it's a revenue thing. The op using parcel motel suggests he's using the uk delivery rather than paying for shipping to Ireland which brewdog do offer.

And on the horsebox from france it's actually up to you to prove it's personal consumption they just have to have reasonable grounds to suspect it's not for personal consumption

It is EU law that dictates whether excise is applicable or not.

Yes, above a certain quantity, the onus falls on you to prove personal use.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/alcohol-tobacco-cash/indexamp_en.htm

Quackster

Also of note on that link I posted, from 1st January next year, as things stand the legal duty-free limit (per person) on the amount of alcohol that we can bring back from the UK (including NI) will be:

4 litres of still wine and

16 litres of beer and

a total of 1 litre of spirits over 22 % vol. or 1 litre of undenatured alcohol (ethyl alcohol) of 80% vol. (or over) or 2 litres of fortified or sparkling wine.

Ciarrai76

How will it work from Jan 2021 if someone from the North orders alcohol from republic? Will anything change there?

BeerNut

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

How will it work from Jan 2021 if someone from the North orders alcohol from republic? Will anything change there?

It's not yet known but I doubt much will change: UK excise is still due on anything crossing the border. I've no idea how strictly HMRC enforces this though.

ec18

ec18 wrote: »

so the excise doesn't have anything to do with EU law. it's a revenue thing. The op using parcel motel suggests he's using the uk delivery rather than paying for shipping to Ireland which brewdog do offer.

And on the horsebox from france it's actually up to you to prove it's personal consumption they just have to have reasonable grounds to suspect it's not for personal consumption

Ultimately incorrect. It's for a judge to decide if you fight it. A generally held view is anything that can be 'reasonable' consumed within a year and a day or before the expiration date.

Too many people just accept the argument from customs and walk away from their stuff. In reality that's just numbers that customs have decided in as a line in the sand. I can't locate it now but Josephine Feehily admitted it before in an interview.

irish_goat

With regards Brewdog specifically, they have apparently hired PWC to look into some solutions to the customs issue.

Rows Grower

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Just a heads up to anyone who like me has been using parcel Wizard to get shipments of beer from the UK. This is my third shipment, the first two were delivered without issue. It was picked in customs in Athlone. I've not replied to the letter, anyone know how much duty is to be paid on 14 litres of alcohol?

There should be a contact number or email address on the letter, contact them and tell them you would like to know how much it will cost to have the beer forwarded on to you.
It is calculated by a formula they have which uses the strength of the alcohol and the volume.
They are just Customs officials doing their job and you won’t be facing any prosecutions or fines.
They’ll explain the options open to you and if you pay the duty you’ll have your beer sent to you and get a receipt posted.

Francie Barrett

This happened to me as well. You will be asked to pay the additional excise duties on the beer.

It's a real sickened, but my own fault.

Gooey Looey

Rows Grower wrote: »

There should be a contact number or email address on the letter, contact them and tell them you would like to know how much it will cost to have the beer forwarded on to you.
It is calculated by a formula they have which uses the strength of the alcohol and the volume.
They are just Customs officials doing their job and you won’t be facing any prosecutions or fines.
They’ll explain the options open to you and if you pay the duty you’ll have your beer sent to you and get a receipt posted.

Yeah the letter says I must write to them giving my name and address. I'm gonna do that today.

Darc19

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Just a heads up to anyone who like me has been using parcel Wizard to get shipments of beer from the UK. This is my third shipment, the first two were delivered without issue. It was picked in customs in Athlone. I've not replied to the letter, anyone know how much duty is to be paid on 14 litres of alcohol?

14 litres?

That would be 280 litres of 5% beer or almost 900x330ml cans.

But I presume 14l of beer

Brewdog send in branded boxes, so easily seen.

Duty not too bad, about €17 for your 14l.

BeerNut

Darc19 wrote: »

Duty not too bad, about €17 for your 14l.

VAT is payable on top of that too.

Gooey Looey

Got a reply

Excise duty and Vat is due as follows:

Excise:                  €17.36

Vat:                       €  9.64

Total due:            €27.00

Rows Grower

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Got a reply

Excise duty and Vat is due as follows:

Excise:                  €17.36

Vat:                       €  9.64

Total due:            €27.00

So basically you have the option to pay 2 euro a litre for your favourite beer, not too bad.

Gooey Looey

Rows Grower wrote: »

So basically you have the option to pay 2 euro a litre for your favourite beer, not too bad.

Yeah makes it expensive beer but in my eyes it's a mortal sin to leave it and let a customs officer have a free house party!

dubrov

What happens if he walks away? Does it get returned to sender?

Markcheese

dubrov wrote: »

What happens if he walks away? Does it get returned to sender?

Would the sender want it back ? Who'd pay carraige ?

Quackster

dubrov wrote: »

What happens if he walks away? Does it get returned to sender?

It would be 'destroyed'.

It seems a bit cheeky of them to be apparently charging VAT on the whole cost of the beer, rather than just the duty due, but I guess they hold all the cards.

Gooey Looey

Quackster wrote: »

It would be 'destroyed'.

You mean drank

Rows Grower

Quackster wrote: »

It would be 'destroyed'.

It seems a bit cheeky of them to be apparently charging VAT on the whole cost of the beer, rather than just the duty due, but I guess they hold all the cards.

That's not exactly what I was told when I had a delivery seized.

Rows Grower

Sorry for short post but dinner is on the way.

Rows Grower

Quackster wrote: »

It would be 'destroyed'.

It seems a bit cheeky of them to be apparently charging VAT on the whole cost of the beer, rather than just the duty due, but I guess they hold all the cards.

In the letter I got I was given the option to pay what was owed or the drink would be destroyed or disposed of in another way that is deemed suitable.

I opted to pay for most of the bottles which were unusual vodka's after it was explained to me how the fee was determined but decided to leave a litre bottle of gin that was well above average strength with the request "that it be given to someone who would appreciate it as it would be a mortal sin to destroy it".

I've been in this situation before but not with alcohol, it was a car part from China.

I refused to pay the charges and the Irish custom's have to return the item to China paying the full postage (god know's how much it cost) they provided me with tracking number which I provided to the seller and got a full refund.

It's an option there for you of you don't want to pay the customs and get your money back.

Rows Grower

Hazel Flat Shuffleboard wrote: »

I've been in this situation before but not with alcohol, it was a car part from China.

I refused to pay the charges and the Irish custom's have to return the item to China paying the full postage (god know's how much it cost) they provided me with tracking number which I provided to the seller and got a full refund.

It's an option there for you of you don't want to pay the customs and get your money back.

It's not.

TheChizler

Revenue give you the option of paying for duty in advance, has anyone ever done this, is it open to regular people?

https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/general-excise/moving-excise-products.aspx

I recently bought some Tequila off a Spanish website but they didn't offer delivery to Ireland so I got it delivered to Parcel Wizard instead and UK duties were paid. All worked out fine but I was bricking it in case it was seized. I'd have been happy to pay the duty in advance if I could, would have still worked out much cheaper than buying it locally.

L1011

That's for businesses with licences only.

Revenue letting punters pay on arrival is new enough, not guaranteed and not something they'll do frequently - if you keep getting caught it'll just be destroyed.

Quackster

Hazel Flat Shuffleboard wrote: »

I've been in this situation before but not with alcohol, it was a car part from China.

I refused to pay the charges and the Irish custom's have to return the item to China paying the full postage (god know's how much it cost) they provided me with tracking number which I provided to the seller and got a full refund.

It's an option there for you of you don't want to pay the customs and get your money back.

Completely different scenario as that invoices customs duty being due on an item you were legitimately importing from outside the EU.

This involves an excisable product (alcohol) which a private individual is not officially allowed to import by post unless the seller is registered with Revenue for collection of Irish excise duty and VAT.

Rows Grower

L1011 wrote: »

That's for businesses with licences only.

Revenue letting punters pay on arrival is new enough, not guaranteed and not something they'll do frequently - if you keep getting caught it'll just be destroyed.

Or disposed of in a way they deem fit, makes more sense for them to charge duty though and the country gains something from it.

BeerNut

Rows Grower wrote: »

makes more sense for them to charge duty though and the country gains something from it.

There's a cost involved in collecting the duty. If that became a legitimate regular channel they would have to inspect more parcels, costing even more, and the system would soon be swamped. I would certainly use the hell out of it :P

Rows Grower

BeerNut wrote: »

There's a cost involved in collecting the duty. If that became a legitimate regular channel they would have to inspect more parcels, costing even more, and the system would soon be swamped. I would certainly use the hell out of it :P

It'll cost no more than it would to have the consignment destroyed or disposed of so it's more beneficial to collect a payment.

BeerNut

Rows Grower wrote: »

It'll cost no more than it would to have the consignment destroyed or disposed of so it's more beneficial to collect a payment.

I can’t see how you figure that. Think how the volume of items to be dealt with would increase. Think of the number of financial transactions there’d be. The amount of work is going to multiply out compared to the ad hoc rap-on-the-knuckles they do now.

Rows Grower

BeerNut wrote: »

I can’t see how you figure that. Think how the volume of items to be dealt with would increase. Think of the number of financial transactions there’d be. The amount of work is going to multiply out compared to the ad hoc rap-on-the-knuckles they do now.

I'd say your gone off on a different train of thought to what was being discussed, or maybe you're not.

My point is, if a consignment of alcohol was seized by customs doing a spot check it makes more sense to collect duty and Vat from the person who bought it then it does to have the drink destroyed or disposed of.

BeerNut

Rows Grower wrote: »

My point is, if a consignment of alcohol was seized by customs doing a spot check it makes more sense to collect duty and Vat from the person who bought it then it does to have the drink destroyed or disposed of.

I agree, if you don't have to do it very often, and this is what Revenue does actually do. But the game changes completely once you try and scale that up, and you would have to scale it up once you make it normal. Genuinely, if Revenue thought they would collect more by having consumers just pay the taxes one at a time, they would do it.

Rows Grower wrote: »

I'd say your gone off on a different train of thought to what was being discussed

Same train, just a few miles further down the tracks.

tinner777

Same here for beer hawk, however not seized by customs, still in their warehouse, asked me to please not to use the service again for beer :-)

tinner777

Beer Hawk box finally came today, battered and bruised, no evidence that revenue went near it??

ciaran76

Ordered a Brewdog Gin advent calendar and it arrived by DHL today.
It was in a package that looked too thin to be Beer or standard gin bottle.
Box was the similar size to a Scrabble box size.

Anyway no charges so was happy and probably just very lucky.