Police shootings, vigilante shootings, and Black Lives Matter

Foxtrol wrote: »

Interested in hearing how 'personal responsibility' would have stopped their ancestors from being slaves nor they and generations before them facing systematic racism.

Are you ? I'm not interested in that kind of passive determinism at all.

I hope you recognise that you are portraying people as being defined and limited, not only by their own pasts, but by that of their their ancestors too !

That is obnoxious.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I already did.



I await your response to my questions.

There's certainly a connection, but given disparity between blacks and other ethnic groups at the same social level, it's not the sole determinant.

Again you push an infantalising viewpoint that seeks to abrogate responsibility from black people.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

There's certainly a connection, but given disparity between blacks and other ethnic groups at the same social level, it's not the sole determinant.

Again you push an infantalising viewpoint that seeks to abrogate responsibility from black people.

Evidence of the bold.

I am not infantalising black people. No matter what race you are it is hard for anyone to break out of the cycle of poverty, even in countries with larger government supports than the US and even when people do not have to deal with racism.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

There's certainly a connection, but given disparity between blacks and other ethnic groups at the same social level, it's not the sole determinant.

Again you push an infantalising viewpoint that seeks to abrogate responsibility from black people.

Just so you know, we are all aware that you are trying to deflect from the shortcomings within police forces in many areas of the US which sees them behaving in a manner which results in the use of excessive fatal force when dealing with many people who are black.

Highlighting and instigating action to change this fact was the basis and is the premise of the Black Lives Matter movement.

There is unquestionably room for improvement in many sectors of American life which includes people from all ethnic backgrounds but trying to argue for this, on a thread on this particular topic, at a time when the BLM protests are an active news story shows nothing more than a desire to not talk about the need for change within police forces.

Anyone doing this or talking about All Lives Matter should be asked where was their concern and efforts in helping these people they now are 'advocating' for before the focus was turned to the impact of systemic racism.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Evidence of the bold.

I am not infantalising black people. No matter what race you are it is hard for anyone to break out of the cycle of poverty, even in countries with larger government supports than the US and even when people do not have to deal with racism.

The murder rate is a pretty stark difference. Your favourite uncomfortable truth ~13%( really closer to 6% since it's mostly men) of the population committing >50% of murders and violent crime.

By constantly pointing to external factors to explain all the issues in the black community, that's exactly what you are doing. It's always racsim and never something organic within those communities.

Frankie Machine wrote: »

You're a very negligent reader.

It is not his opinion that I am referring to as 'research'.

You mentioned the word 'research' when you said that

The Sowell quote is by way of alluding to the uselessness of 'institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive'.

Academic institutions that churn out self-serving 'research', in other words.

Perhaps I should have kept it simpler for you.

So you're claiming no research can be believed? I think you're in the wrong forum then

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The murder rate is a pretty stark difference. Your favourite uncomfortable truth ~13%( really closer to 6% since it's mostly men) of the population committing >50% of murders and violent crime.

By constantly pointing to external factors to explain all the issues in the black community, that's exactly what you are doing. It's always racsim and never something organic within those communities.

That is completely different than what you claimed earlier.

You said there was 'disparity between blacks and other ethnic groups at the same social level' when it comes to violence. Evidence of this please, I have not seen anything that points to significant difference in middle class or high earning black people.

Frankie Machine wrote: »

It was too much to ask that you acknowledge your mistake, of course.

Generally, posts that start with 'So you're saying...' and then go on to tell other people what they think, are wrong.

This one is no exception.

Anyway. What I'm claiming is that the publish or perish culture of academia, combined with the preponderance of left thought in those dark satanic mills (it's a bit like the 'interest convergence' idea of CRT), means that anyone with a critical faculty of their own would think twice.

Conversely, I don't believe that people on here read half the studies they link - having quoted one sentence - in order to back up their case.

A lot of 'quantity over quality' firefighting goes on.

That mindset is akin to attacking the poster not the post or shouting 'Fake News'.

Foxtrol wrote: »

You posted that exact claim



What you came back with had nothing to do with social level. Once again, where is your evidence to back up your claim?

I was referring to the murder rate. Are you saying that there isn't a disparity there?

You of course didn't answer my question to you about that, instead tryed to compare North Dublin to the US for some reason. last time I checked there weren't 30 people getting shot in North Dublin every weekend

Foxtrol wrote: »

That mindset is akin to attacking the poster not the post or shouting 'Fake News'.

I think the same of people whose habit is to misread and/or misrepresent other people's words.

Foxtrol wrote: »

And where is your evidence of the murder rate disparity at the 'same social level' as you claimed in that post?

To make that claim I would expect you to be able to provide evidence that black people within middle or high income groups have significant higher murder rates. If you have that evidence I am very interested in reading it, otherwise just admit that you made it up.

Ah, so you're going for wilful misinterpretation, got it. I'm clearly referring to low income communities. You made reference to the link between poverty and crime, to explain the level of violence among blacks.

So my question to you, is that if poverty is the sole reason for the criminality and violence, you would presumably see the same result in other, similarly poor communities. Is that the case?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Ah, so you're going for wilful misinterpretation, got it. I'm clearly referring to low income communities. You made reference to the link between poverty and crime, to explain the level of violence among blacks.

So my question to you, is that if poverty is the sole reason for the criminality and violence, you would presumably see the same result in other, similarly poor communities. Is that the case?

You chose to state social levels rather than poverty, how is willful misinterpretation quoting your own words?

I still haven't seen any evidence from you regarding this adjusted claim of the discrepancy of violence in areas of poverty between races.

As for your question, I never said sole reason but I haven't seen a study that didn't connect back to poverty in some way. Happy to reconsider if you can provide some reading.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

So what else is behind the outsized level of violence among blacks? You seem determined to deflect any attention from that fact, because as ever, it undermines so many of your positions.

If race was key driver as you claim, you'd be able to point to evidence of black people having higher rates of crime at every income level.

I'd be happy to reconsider my positions if you can provide research for the like for like disparity you claim exists but you've failed to provide anything other than opinions

Brian? wrote: »

So all research conducted in universities is inherently flawed? That's a laughably obnoxious opinion to hold. It allows you to hand wave away academic research, which is convenient for you when you're losing a fact based argument.

Yet another one of those 'So you're saying that...' posts which itself turns out to be a fairly laughably obnoxious distortion of what was said.

And that's after I've already corrected the first 'So you're saying that...' misrepresentation.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115011337&postcount=787

Once more -

...anyone with a critical faculty of their own would think twice...

That's quite a different thing to 'hand waving away' 'all research conducted in universities'.

It's like the convenience of dismissing someone you disagree with by calling them 'a self described libertarian'. When the same person could just as accurately have been described as 'a Black ex-Marxist'.

That's a failure of critical faculty that unsurprisingly, you 'thanked'.