Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

rob316 · 20-10-2020 10:57PM

Enter name here wrote: »

And those businesses found to be offering and supplying click and collect services should be breached and heavily fined for serving customers outside a 5 kms radius. So sick of this ****ing lockdown, why cant these ****ing idiots just do as they are told so we can get back to normal.

Do Aldi, Lidl and Tesco ask have you travelled more than 5km to get to us?

Spanish Eyes · 20-10-2020 10:58PM

The_Brood wrote: »

For public transport being cut down to 25% capacity: What about those who rely on public transport to go food shopping, but could/will be turned away from buses due to lack of capacity? What do they do then? Go without food? Not everyone has a car or should be expected to have a car. In fact the push has been for more green choices. So what then, no food?

If they can, get stuff delivered. If they can't a neighbour would surely help and leave the shopping at the doorstep. We do that for our neighbour when ordering our grocery shopping online, and it's grand. He can walk up to the shop to buy the paper and a lottery ticket and have a chat, but would not be able to carry shopping home. He refuses our offer of driving him there, is a bit wary of virus transmission. That's ok.

Or contact ALONE.

Sierra Oscar · 20-10-2020 10:59PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Not ideal https://twitter.com/SiCarswell/status/1318659754001129472?s=19

We really shouldn't be in this position. The Government had plenty of time to really beef up contact tracing.

This makes the testing figures unreliable too considering so many close contacts aren't getting tested as they don't know they have to. Terrible.

Cilldara_2000 · 20-10-2020 11:00PM

Regarding this deaths table thing, the lag is greater than three months.

Comparing it against the table shown in this article: https://www.thejournal.ie/number-of-deaths-per-month-in-ireland-5202283-Sep2020/

Between 1 August 2020 and 30 September 2020, the following number of additional deaths were registered in each month:

2020  2019

January    65    19
February   66     7
March     114    17
April     181     7
May       207    16
June      334     6
July     1041    10

For ex, April was more than three months before 31 July yet there were still 181 deaths in April only registered between 1 August and 30 September. The average deaths in May per the September table for the previous five years was 2508. May 2020 is 2410 per the September table. It could easily rise to or exceed the average by the time all the registrations are complete.

The_Brood · 20-10-2020 11:00PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Same as they did last time capacity was reduced in March/April.
Also for your reading pleasure
https://www.transportforireland.ie/news/nta-statement-on-moving-to-level-5-of-living-with-covid/

? There is not a word there about shopping.

CoronaBlocker · 20-10-2020 11:01PM

hmmm wrote: »

Their people are exhausted, I know one public health person personally and I'm worried about their own health. It's not their fault, they've never had the resources to deal with a full blown pandemic in this country.

I think what needs to happen in there (track and trace) is the appointment of a no-nonsense type, ideally perhaps from a private sector background, with a big budget and the authority to make things happen. Scale the operation up quickly and eliminate inefficiencies as much as possible. This is an emergency and needs to be treated as such.

There's a lot of middle-management in the HSE picking their nose and surfing the web all day. They should hit them up.

Enter name here · 20-10-2020 11:02PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Where are you getting the connection between click & collect and the 5km limit? It's not in anything I've read. Indeed, it allows travel to click & collect outside 5km.

Can you show the detail you have?

rob316 wrote: »

Do Aldi, Lidl and Tesco ask have you travelled more than 5km to get to us?

Essential purposes for travel (permitted outside 5km limit)
to shop for essential items

from the gov.ie site, should be a special clause for the Irish that cant fking read though.

Eod100 · 20-10-2020 11:03PM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

How hard is it to train extra staff for contract tracking. They had six months. This oh we were not prepared is not really going to cut it.

If we were seriously overwhelmed in my job for the want of people making phone calls we would hire people. They have a billion euro to pay people to lose their jobs but not enough to employ extra staff.

This is an absolute joke. Imagine getting a text message oh tell people you know to go to the GP.

Exactly. Katie Hannon read out a text from someone who has been unemployed since March and has contacted to see if they could be hired as contact tracer several times and never got any reply. Plenty of people out of work would jump at the chance of doing the job even if it was temporary. As you say government paying PUP anyway, might as well get people working and people fighting covid19 at the same time. It's a no brainer.

JP Liz V1 · 20-10-2020 11:03PM

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1318664497142386688

The_Brood · 20-10-2020 11:06PM

Enter name here wrote: »

Essential purposes for travel (permitted outside 5km limit)
to shop for essential items

from the gov.ie site, should be a special clause for the Irish that cant fking read though.

The question is not will shopping be allowed (imagine if it was not) it is how will get on the bus to do your shopping when it is only running at 25%?

MelbourneMan · 20-10-2020 11:07PM

Kenzie Melodic Vaccine wrote: »

****ing hopeless. stuck in an endless cycle of lockdowns for 12 months.

For twelve months, would make it not endless.

It is likely the best option by all analyses. However undesirable it might be, a regularly adapting sequence of restriction variations is in some ways and elegant and sophisticated way of managing a problem that at its heart has to solution at the moment. Demanding that there be one because people dont want lockdowns - a very wide term at this stage - is simply irrational. When the history of Covid is written, Ireland, and NPHET, will be judged to have managed the crisis extremely well, I am quite sure. The criticism and anger directed at them at the moment is an angry lashing out, which is neither merited, nor well considered.

20-10-2020 11:08PM

The_Brood wrote: »

? There is not a word there about shopping.

OK can see I'm going to have to join the dots for you.

Shopping is an essential purpose.
From the link
We would ask people to avoid travelling at times of the day when a lot of school children are using public transport, (07:30-08:30 and 15:30-17:30), and only to use public transport for essential purposes.

Also in relation to the reduction as you were so originally worried about, while forgetting that it was also reduced in March/April.
Again from the link

We expect that the overall national restrictions that will be in place under Level 5 will lead to a fall in demand for public transport. At this stage, it is our view that we will be in a position to accommodate that demand within the 25% ceiling.

Overall capacity will be greater under Level 5 compared to say March and April of this year.
That’s partly because thanks to a government subsidy, commercial operators are now providing far more services than they did earlier this year, and partly because PSO services are being maintained at current levels

ixoy · 20-10-2020 11:08PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Looks like that's what's going to happen now

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1318662134235058178?s=19

Hah! I came up with the same idea after spending one minute thinking about it. Looks like I should get a job in the HSE management!

Jim_Hodge · 20-10-2020 11:10PM

Enter name here wrote: »

Essential purposes for travel (permitted outside 5km limit)
to shop for essential items

from the gov.ie site, should be a special clause for the Irish that cant fking read though.

Maybe you need to look up what has been classed as essential retail

From Department of the Taoiseach

Published at 14 October 2020

Last updated 20 October 2020

any other retail outlet that operates an online or other remote system of ordering goods for purposes of collection at the retail outlet

Or do you need a larger font and a few expletives to comprehend it.

Enter name here · 20-10-2020 11:12PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

OK can see I'm going to have to join the dots for you.

Shopping is an essential purpose.
From the link
We would ask people to avoid travelling at times of the day when a lot of school children are using public transport, (07:30-08:30 and 15:30-17:30), and only to use public transport for essential purposes.

Also in relation to the reduction as you were so originally worried about, while forgetting that it was also reduced in March/April.
Again from the link

We expect that the overall national restrictions that will be in place under Level 5 will lead to a fall in demand for public transport. At this stage, it is our view that we will be in a position to accommodate that demand within the 25% ceiling.

Overall capacity will be greater under Level 5 compared to say March and April of this year.
That’s partly because thanks to a government subsidy, commercial operators are now providing far more services than they did earlier this year, and partly because PSO services are being maintained at current levels

FFS shopping is not an essential purpose why is it so hard for people to understand. Shopping for essential items like food, medication etc is allowed.HEADING TO SMYTHS OR GOLF SHOP IS NOT ALLOWED!!!!!

Eod100 · 20-10-2020 11:13PM

According to The Journal there's only 280 contact tracers over 8 centres as of 8th October. 65 were due to start then so assuming they did 345. No wonder they're struggling.

https://www.thejournal.ie/contact-tracers-5226529-Oct2020/

Enter name here · 20-10-2020 11:13PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Maybe you need to look up what has been classed as essential retail

Or do you need a larger font and a few expletives to comprehend it.

Interpretations like yours is why we will be in a lockdown permanently.

Jim_Hodge · 20-10-2020 11:14PM

Enter name here wrote: »

FFS shopping is not an essential purpose why is it so hard for people to understand. Shopping for essential items like food, medication etc is allowed.HEADING TO SMYTHS OR GOLF SHOP IS NOT ALLOWED!!!!!

It is if the store is operating. Read the list of 'essential retail'. It has been made clear that you can travel to any store operating in store or click and collect.
It is allowed.

stephenjmcd · 20-10-2020 11:15PM

Enter name here wrote: »

FFS shopping is not an essential purpose why is it so hard for people to understand. Shopping for essential items like food, medication etc is allowed.HEADING TO SMYTHS OR GOLF SHOP IS NOT ALLOWED!!!!!

Except you are allowed to go and collect anything bought online under click and collect services.

It's listed within the allowed retail

mandrake04 · 20-10-2020 11:16PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Australia? Like where Melbourne is?

100 days confined to their homes and ordered not to leave for more than two hours of daily exercise – it started as a one hour limit

and even then its very difficult to get cases down

Victoria hit 100 daily cases start of July and it took to mid September to get it down to around 50.

That was about 17,500 cases and the peak hit 700 one day... 700.

Jim_Hodge · 20-10-2020 11:16PM

Enter name here wrote: »

Interpretations like yours is why we will be in a lockdown permanently.

It's not an interpretation, it's the clear facts,

And I resent your intimation that I don't do my bit. We have hardly been out of our house in six months and can't see our grandchildren. So don't go trying to blame someone stating facts to you for the lockdown.

Cilldara_2000 · 20-10-2020 11:17PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

It is if the store is operating. Read the list of 'essential retail'. It has been made clear that you can travel to any store operating in store or click and collect.
It is allowed.

The workers are allowed travel to the shop but it's not clear that customers are supposed to travel. Only food shopping is mentioned as a reason to travel more than 5km in terms of shopping. No mention of collecting click and collect items.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#domestic-travel-restrictions

Enter name here · 20-10-2020 11:17PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

It is if the store is operating. Read the list of 'essential retail'. It has been made clear that you can travel to any store operating in store or click and collect.
It is allowed.

Essential purposes for travel (permitted outside 5km limit)
to shop for essential items
travel to and from work, where work involves providing an essential service (see below)
to attend medical appointments and collect medicines and other health products
for vital family reasons, such as providing care to children, elderly or vulnerable people, and in particular for those who live alone, as part of an extended household but excluding social family visits
to attend a wedding or funeral
for farming purposes i.e. food production and/or care of animals
to visit a grave
Exemptions for weddings (irrespective of venue):** Up to 25 guests for wedding ceremony and reception.

Exemption for funerals: Up to 10 mourners.

here is the link:
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/66269-ireland-placed-on-level-5-of-the-plan-for-living-with-covid/#:~:text=people%20will%20be%20permitted%20to,5%20km%20of%20their%20home&text=it%20is%20possible%20to%20meet,organised%20indoor%20or%20outdoor%20events

20-10-2020 11:17PM

Enter name here wrote: »

FFS shopping is not an essential purpose why is it so hard for people to understand. Shopping for essential items like food, medication etc is allowed.HEADING TO SMYTHS OR GOLF SHOP IS NOT ALLOWED!!!!!

You might want to read my posts lad, I never claimed that going to Argos etc was essential, allowed or not allowed.

The poster who I was replying to wanted to know how people would be able to go food shopping when public transport has been reduced. I simply replied that they managed earlier in the year when capacity was reduced etc and could still travel for the same.

Non solum non ambulabit · 20-10-2020 11:18PM

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »
Regarding this deaths table thing, the lag is greater than three months.

Comparing it against the table shown in this article: https://www.thejournal.ie/number-of-deaths-per-month-in-ireland-5202283-Sep2020/

Between 1 August 2020 and 30 September 2020, the following number of additional deaths were registered in each month:
2020  2019

January    65    19
February   66     7
March     114    17
April     181     7
May       207    16
June      334     6
July     1041    10
For ex, April was more than three months before 31 July yet there were still 181 deaths in April only registered between 1 August and 30 September. The average deaths in May per the September table for the previous five years was 2508. May 2020 is 2410 per the September table. It could easily rise to or exceed the average by the time all the registrations are complete.

Good spot.

caveat emptor · 20-10-2020 11:19PM

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

No we’re not.
The shops are packed with food. I was in Aldi earlier today and shelves are fully stocked and fcuk all people there.Thanks to the staff and the producers and delivery drivers.long may it last.
The drama queens punched themselves out in march. The want and excitement is gone off them.
We are doing ok given what we are dealing with.
Our grandparents and the generations before went through famines and wars with food rations and lived on crumbs.
We are living like kings and queens with the best of food and the best of technology.
We have it that good,we forget how good we have it.

Thank god for the germans :pac: They know their logistics. Could we outsource the vaccine distribution to lidl and Aldi? They already do cold chain.

The_Brood · 20-10-2020 11:19PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

For twelve months, would make it not endless.

It is likely the best option by all analyses. However undesirable it might be, a regularly adapting sequence of restriction variations is in some ways and elegant and sophisticated way of managing a problem that at its heart has to solution at the moment. Demanding that there be one because people dont want lockdowns - a very wide term at this stage - is simply irrational. When the history of Covid is written, Ireland, and NPHET, will be judged to have managed the crisis extremely well, I am quite sure. The criticism and anger directed at them at the moment is an angry lashing out, which is neither merited, nor well considered.

Completely absurd.

There is no real "lockdown." This is an economic shutdown yes, but schools are opened, and powers to stop people from gathering or moving will continue to be very limited regardless of these fines they are threatening to implement. A real lockdown is what China implemented - everything totally shut down, people ordered to stay inside to exceptions, but only for a few weeks, and now virus has been gone for months and people are allowed to live their lives. Whatever other opinion people have of China, they handled the outbreak properly, saved their economy and did what was needed. They are living right now, we are imprisoned.

The approach in Ireland is the opposite - total economic ruin but measures not taken to decisively kill of the virus. All the sacrifice, none of the reward - and the consequence of course is multiple more economic lockdowns, misery and uncertainty to come.

The government is making literally the worst decision any government on this planet can make about anything. They need to be spat on for generations to come for this.

Stheno · 20-10-2020 11:20PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

For twelve months, would make it not endless.

It is likely the best option by all analyses. However undesirable it might be, a regularly adapting sequence of restriction variations is in some ways and elegant and sophisticated way of managing a problem that at its heart has to solution at the moment. Demanding that there be one because people dont want lockdowns - a very wide term at this stage - is simply irrational. When the history of Covid is written, Ireland, and NPHET, will be judged to have managed the crisis extremely well, I am quite sure. The criticism and anger directed at them at the moment is an angry lashing out, which is neither merited, nor well considered.

No we will not be judged well
We are now in a situation where 100% of our population face punitive restrictions due to the failure of government to enforce restrictions and address issues in the heth service

The incredulous reaction of my global colleagues to our new restrictions today was astonishing

We have a weak government who now make decisions imo based on fear, a fear which NPHET fuel

They have lost all reason and balance

Ffs look at the drop in cases in the North the past week

5 times our 14 day incidence and our level three equivalent is having a dramatic affect

Cilldara_2000 · 20-10-2020 11:21PM

Enter name here wrote: »

Essential purposes for travel (permitted outside 5km limit)
to shop for essential items
travel to and from work, where work involves providing an essential service (see below)
to attend medical appointments and collect medicines and other health products
for vital family reasons, such as providing care to children, elderly or vulnerable people, and in particular for those who live alone, as part of an extended household but excluding social family visits
to attend a wedding or funeral
for farming purposes i.e. food production and/or care of animals
to visit a grave
Exemptions for weddings (irrespective of venue):** Up to 25 guests for wedding ceremony and reception.

Exemption for funerals: Up to 10 mourners.

here is the link:
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/66269-ireland-placed-on-level-5-of-the-plan-for-living-with-covid/#:~:text=people%20will%20be%20permitted%20to,5%20km%20of%20their%20home&text=it%20is%20possible%20to%20meet,organised%20indoor%20or%20outdoor%20events

There's a problem here that this press release refers to "to shop for essential items". The web page on level 5, also updated today, says "for food shopping" and in a different position in the list. This makes things unclear and doesn't help people who want to make a good faith effort at following the guidelines.

Enter name here · 20-10-2020 11:22PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

You might want to read my posts lad, I never claimed that going to Argos etc was essential, allowed or not allowed.

The poster who I was replying to wanted to know how people would be able to go food shopping when public transport has been reduced. I simply replied that they managed earlier in the year when capacity was reduced etc and could still travel for the same.

You said "Shopping is an essential purpose."

This is why people are getting confused, shopping in general terms in not allowed. Just because a store offers a click and collect service doesn't mean you can leave the 5kms radius of your residence to pick it up unless it is classed as an essential item.

This clearly needs to spelt out to Joe Public other massive issues are going to be caused with people ignoring travel restrictions.

Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Comments