COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Hmmzis · 19-10-2020 02:09PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

A vaccine is safe when it doesn't give any fatl or invalidating side effects in the middle to long term. And so far such a long term hasn't been tested.
A vaccine is effective when it does its job, that is giving a person a long lasting or life-long immunity, and this hasn't been proved yet.

Regarding the mid to long term side effects, could you please mention some examples? Just curious what you mean with that.

How long the protection lasts, we'll see from the ongoing trials.

polesheep · 19-10-2020 02:13PM

Sconsey wrote: »

If there was any justice your wife and yourself would be sent home from the hospital on unpaid leave untill you were satisfied that the vaccine was safe. Considering you seem to know more than the actual experts you should put your money where your mouth is.

Experts who don't have to deal with the public/patients after their vaccine has been released. Send the medical staff home on unpaid leave and see where that leaves the hospitals.

polesheep · 19-10-2020 02:18PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Hasn't been tested.... sorry I must have mistaken the 60k plus in each trial going back to early summer as not being tested.... Bloody hell

Multiple reasons why it will be the quickest vaccine produced. Little point in trying to discuss though as your stance has been made perfectly clear.

There are numerous cases of serious side-effects occurring years after drugs/vaccines were approved.

Sconsey · 19-10-2020 02:18PM

polesheep wrote: »

Experts who don't have to deal with the public/patients after their vaccine has been released. Send the medical staff home on unpaid leave and see where that leaves the hospitals.

Experts who actually know what they are doing, have relevant training, qualifications and experience in producing vaccines. Experts who are employed to analyse the safety and efficacy of vaccines based on years of experience, guidlines, standards and rules. They are the experts, not someone with a facebook account and a raging-clue that they might know better.

polesheep · 19-10-2020 02:20PM

Cordell wrote: »

With all due respect to health workers, and I'm genuine about it, neither you nor your wife have the qualifications to make this determination. You have the right to refuse it for yourselves, but its safety is not for you to decide.

The poster referred to 'feeling safe' personally.

polesheep · 19-10-2020 02:24PM

Sconsey wrote: »

Experts who actually know what they are doing, have relevant training, qualifications and experience in producing vaccines. Experts who are employed to analyse the safety and efficacy of vaccines based on years of experience, guidlines, standards and rules. They are the experts, not someone with a facebook account and a raging-clue that they might know better.

In any field, when you speed up, you run an increasing risk of making mistakes. The race to produce a vaccine for Covid is no exception. Some people are wary of this factor and they are entitled to be. Others feel the need is so pressing that this factor can be overlooked. All good, as long as one is not making demands of the other.

Irish Stones · 19-10-2020 02:42PM

polesheep wrote: »

There are numerous cases of serious side-effects occurring years after drugs/vaccines were approved.

Right!

I'm still dealing with a few post-infection symptoms (luckily they are not too heavy) from this China virus, nearly 6 months later.
I would be a little p!ssed off if the vaccine would give some more thing to deal with.

Cordell · 19-10-2020 02:44PM

polesheep wrote: »

The poster referred to 'feeling safe' personally.

When they throw in their jobs as healthcare workers it's a bit more than a personal feeling.

ACitizenErased · 19-10-2020 02:47PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

A month or so... Maybe two or three? Not longer.
It usually teakes years to have a drug approved, because all side effects have to be taken into account, and the reports from the multitude of doctors around the world need a long time to be elaborated.

So, even if it is a three-month testing, we think it isn't enough.

You quite clearly havent a clue what youre on about

Irish Stones · 19-10-2020 02:58PM

Cordell wrote: »

When they throw in their jobs as healthcare workers it's a bit more than a personal feeling.

Can't a healthcare worker have a personal opinion?
I'm not in the same department, I work in a totally different field.

begbysback · 19-10-2020 03:01PM

I’m willing to go guinea pig for a vaccine, regard myself a perfect specimen so charging 5k, where do I sign up?

Irish Stones · 19-10-2020 03:01PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You quite clearly havent a clue what youre on about

Isn't that true that they have been working on this vaccine for a few months now, not years?
Isn't that true that a big amount of data has to be evaluated before saying that something is safe (whatever it is when it involves the public's safety)?
Isn't that true that collecting and analysing this huge amount of data needs time?

ACitizenErased · 19-10-2020 03:08PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

Isn't that true that they have been working on this vaccine for a few months now, not years?
Isn't that true that a big amount of data has to be evaluated before saying that something is safe (whatever it is when it involves the public's safety)?
Isn't that true that collecting and analysing this huge amount of data needs time?

You talk as if these companies pulled the vaccine out of their backsides a few months back. These technologies have been tested for years.

Cordell · 19-10-2020 03:13PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

Can't a healthcare worker have a personal opinion?
I'm not in the same department, I work in a totally different field.

You said "my wife isn't feeling safe with a vaccine that hasn't been tested"

"my wife isn't feeling safe" - that's a personal opinion.
"a vaccine that hasn't been tested" - that's a false statement.

You are entitled to personal opinions, and you will be called out when you're making false statements. This is how it works.

Irish Stones · 19-10-2020 03:16PM

OK, anyway I won't be the first in line to get the vaccine. I think I'll wait a year at least and see how things go with others.

Hmmzis · 19-10-2020 03:30PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

Isn't that true that they have been working on this vaccine for a few months now, not years?
Isn't that true that a big amount of data has to be evaluated before saying that something is safe (whatever it is when it involves the public's safety)?
Isn't that true that collecting and analysing this huge amount of data needs time?

Most are from SARS and MERS research.
When it comes to platforms, viral vectors have been developed since the 1970ies (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4494222/). The mRNA platform is relatively new but even that has been worked on for decades by now (https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243)
Protein subunit and VLP vaccine platforms are among the best we have in widespread use at the moment.

Data analysis would be among the less time consuming tasks, especially with rolling reviews and the tools available for that.

Marhay70 · 19-10-2020 03:53PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

Right!

I'm still dealing with a few post-infection symptoms (luckily they are not too heavy) from this China virus, nearly 6 months later.
I would be a little p!ssed off if the vaccine would give some more thing to deal with.

"China Virus", is that you, Donald?

Irish Stones · 19-10-2020 04:08PM

Marhay70 wrote: »

"China Virus", is that you, Donald?

Not him, but it's how I call it

Hmmzis · 19-10-2020 05:11PM

Some data on EIDD-2801 in a ferret model of infectiousness.

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-89433/v1_stamped.pdf

While the viral reduction in the treated animals is great, to me the secondary benefit of stopping shedding of infectious particles is the biggest uplift a drug like this could do. By giving a 10-pack of this to every contact of a confirmed case it would quite quickly break the transmission chains. It's not the most difficult compound to make and Merck should be able to make this in the hundreds of tons scale if needs be.

Marhay70 · 19-10-2020 05:27PM

Hmmzis wrote: »

Some data on EIDD-2801 in a ferret model of infectiousness.

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-89433/v1_stamped.pdf

While the viral reduction in the treated animals is great, to me the secondary benefit of stopping shedding of infectious particles is the biggest uplift a drug like this could do. By giving a 10-pack of this to every contact of a confirmed case it would quite quickly break the transmission chains. It's not the most difficult compound to make and Merck should be able to make this in the hundreds of tons scale if needs be.

I posted about this some months ago after reading about it on an obscure website which had lofty claims about it but it seemed to have dropped below the radar. Looks there was merit in the claims.
At the time there seemed to be a lot of politics involved where it had been developed by public money but "hijacked" by a private agent who might demand a high price for it.
Does anybody know the state of play now and how close it might be to approval?

lbj666 · 19-10-2020 05:45PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

Right!

I'm still dealing with a few post-infection symptoms (luckily they are not too heavy) from this China virus, nearly 6 months later.
I would be a little p!ssed off if the vaccine would give some more thing to deal with.

What if your antibody levels diminished enough that you are at risk of contracting the virus again would you go through that again or a lesser version of it. Remember the vaccine wont eliminate the virus (or at least not immediately) it will still be around, even more so because the rollout would allow people to return their normal movements somewhat.

How does that weight up vs your feared side effects.

hmmm · 19-10-2020 05:57PM

Marhay70 wrote: »

Does anybody know the state of play now and how close it might be to approval?

My understanding is that a phase 2 trial is due to end any day now, and there's a phase 2/3 trial due before the end of the year.

(edit - actually starts today - https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04575584

Bit of a concern about side effects with this one, and I imagine the regulators will be taking a very close look before approving it.

hmmm · 19-10-2020 07:51PM

Florian Krammer has signed up for a vaccine trial. That says all I personally need to know about the safety profile.

https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1318249912316866566

JacksonHeightsOwn · 19-10-2020 08:44PM

hmmm wrote: »

Florian Krammer has signed up for a vaccine trial. That says all I personally need to know about the safety profile.

https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1318249912316866566

and he is who exactly?

Hmmzis · 19-10-2020 08:53PM

chrisbonnie wrote: »

and he is who exactly?

He's someone who knows his fair share of viruses and vaccines:

https://labs.icahn.mssm.edu/krammerlab/dr-krammer/

Hmmzis · 19-10-2020 08:58PM

hmmm wrote: »

My understanding is that a phase 2 trial is due to end any day now, and there's a phase 2/3 trial due before the end of the year.

(edit - actually starts today - https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04575584

Bit of a concern about side effects with this one, and I imagine the regulators will be taking a very close look before approving it.

There are concerns about mutagenic properties in this class of drugs (Ribavirin for example). Lots of academic brown stuff being flung around about it. Probably not to be given to young people who are still planning on having children, especially women. At least untill all the animal studies have been finished.

Gael23 · 19-10-2020 09:27PM

Once a vaccine is created is there much effort needed to mass produce it?

pgj2015 · 19-10-2020 09:28PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Once a vaccine is created is there much effort needed to mass produce it?

No.:)

ACitizenErased · 19-10-2020 09:30PM

This thread is going to be a blast in a few weeks. Thank God it exists.

Gael23 · 19-10-2020 09:31PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

This thread is going to be a blast in a few weeks. Thank God it exists.

That’s a good thing I’m guessing?

COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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