Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

440Hertz · 18-10-2020 12:38PM

Pretzill wrote: »

I'm wondering are they going to scrap this Level nonsense and just bring in restrictions that are clear and give us a way through and out the otherside...They really have a lot to do to garner public confidence whatever they decide.

I think to a degree that framework was a self built political trap. They have managed to create an expectation that those are the only possibilities and it’s creating a huge degree of inflexibility and I’m really not sure how it’s improved the ability for anyone of us to plan.

All it seems to have done is create a situation where we are all feeling threatened by the potential implication of “a level 5” instead of dealing with the realities in a pragmatic way.

There’s no ideal way of doing this and the situation is genuinely unprecedented, but I think they really need to avoid building sticks to beat themselves in with like extremely ridged frameworks in a totally unpredictable, fast moving and dynamic situation with a whole load of unknowable never mind unknowns.

speckle · 18-10-2020 12:39PM

Trump declared non infectious at with a ct level of 34.3. Hopefully now ct levels in all tests can be callibrated to know when we start to be infectious and end being infectious. might help.
ct level cane from twiv tv via faucci.

AlphaDelta1 · 18-10-2020 12:40PM

Kh1993 wrote: »

So 4 days to decide level 3 hasn’t worked with the added visits restrictions

I’m sure that’s not best practice.

Dublin is at L3 for 4 weeks now, it hasnt worked.

Russman · 18-10-2020 12:40PM

khalessi wrote: »

PArt of the issue with the government and NPHET is Tony dealt with the old government who seemed to be able to communicate with NPHET. The present incumbents are incapable of releasing any message without confusion, even after hiring pr a few months ago. Whatever happened to them?

Government changed and certain politicians who were still used to the old ways of thinking, got close to power and can’t grasp the enormity of situation.

440Hertz · 18-10-2020 12:41PM

speckle wrote: »

Trump declared non infectious at with a ct level of 34.3. Hopefully now ct levels in all tests can be callibrated to know when we start to be infectious and end being infectious. might help.
ct level cane from twiv tv via faucci.

I think we can safely say that any facts from the Trump case are probably best not to be used for a benchmark for anything other than ego and political expedience ahead of an absolutely bizarre election.

carveone · 18-10-2020 12:41PM

sterz wrote: »

There really isn’t. Non-essential retail closes under level 4. So it’s as crippling as level 5.

Totally agree and "crippling" is the right word.

Except as far as I can see "sports training" can take place a level 4. As I walked by the local playing pitches just now, there was "sports training" taking place in two large groups of about 30 each. I suppose that's nothing compared to the nearby schools where kids hang around in groups of 100!

Whatever you think about any of that, it seems completely deranged to allow something like sports, or hell even schools, while closing all retail. Which, in my humble opinion, will destroy large numbers of SMEs in this country, most of which are barely hanging on as it is.

I honestly don't see why we can't have lockdown with all shops remaining open. If supermarkets are open with 100s of people, why can't my local hardware stay open, with 2 or 3 people. Retail is a masked controlled environment. None of this makes any sense at all - I'm very frustrated...

is_that_so · 18-10-2020 12:44PM

Russman wrote: »

Government changed and certain politicians who were still used to the old ways of thinking, got close to power and can’t grasp the enormity of situation.

Well, one member of the previous government went to town on NPHET. This is not just about public health any more, even if it brings comfort to some to think we'll all be safe at Level 5.

The Tetrarch · 18-10-2020 12:44PM

Having levels is not working.
The problem is people ignoring the recommendations, using the excuse that it is too complicated.
It is a bit complicated. On my Covid-19 leaflet there are twenty sections, and five levels for each activity/business.
We can move to level 4 tomorrow, and that will not work either.

When we are registering 5,000+ cases a day we might get real.
My guess is we could get to night curfews, roads blocked, army support.
Recommendations don't work, fines won't work.

stephenjmcd · 18-10-2020 12:44PM

Mr.S wrote: »

There's a clear difference between level 4 and 5?

There really isn't, both pretty much the same.

I really dont see what closing retail is going to do

Happydays2020 · 18-10-2020 12:44PM

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

Dublin is at L3 for 4 weeks now, it hasnt worked.

It did work to a degree but was misguided as the problem was not restaurants.

speckle · 18-10-2020 12:45PM

440Hertz wrote: »

I think we can safely say that any facts from the Trump case are probably best not to be used for a benchmark for anything other than ego and political expedience ahead of an absolutely bizarre election.

well why dont you ssy that to the immeniant virologists,scientists and medical specialists of twiv many who are working at the coal face of this pandemic.

RugbyLad11 · 18-10-2020 12:45PM

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

Dublin is at L3 for 4 weeks now, it hasnt worked.

It has slowed the spread of the virus in Dublin. A few weeks ago Dublin was way ahead of everywhere else on cases per 1000 but today it's like 14th place..

It's seems that level 3 has done what the WHO say lockdowns should be use for as they say it should be used as the last resort to buy time. I think it's safe to say that level 3 slowly the spread of virus in Dublin has bought them time.

rob316 · 18-10-2020 12:45PM

So we are closing one of the lowest risk sectors of the economy, retail. It'll do nothing absolutely nothing and maybe people will finally realize there is nowhere to go then and we have to ride it out till a vaccine comes.

Away With The Fairies · 18-10-2020 12:45PM

speckle wrote: »

Trump declared non infectious at with a ct level of 34.3. Hopefully now ct levels in all tests can be callibrated to know when we start to be infectious and end being infectious. might help.
ct level cane from twiv tv via faucci.

What is this ct level?

the corpo · 18-10-2020 12:46PM

Got up really early this morning with the kids and drove to Dun Laoghaire Pier to see the sunrise, which was utterly beautiful and just the tonic we all needed.

Spell ruined on walk back to car as groups from house parties had arrived to finish their booze and watch the sunrise. They weren't teenagers either. Left feeling utterly hopeless.

Russman · 18-10-2020 12:47PM

So, everyone seems to know where the virus is NOT spreading, it’s not in retail, it’s not in hairdressers, it’s not on the sports pitches etc etc.
Does anyone know for sure where it IS actually spreading ? Wouldn’t that be the first thing they should shut down ?

Eod100 · 18-10-2020 12:47PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Well, it gives false hope to people when we know from experience that it's just not a real number. Joking aside, they need to own up about Christmas now, that it will be very different and very restricted and there's no point promising otherwise or that they can save it.

Ah I think people are fairly sussed in now that the restrictions time is fairly changeable but can understand logic of not saying it too. Yeah Christmas definitely will and I think most people would be aware of that.

is_that_so · 18-10-2020 12:47PM

the corpo wrote: »

Got up really early this morning with the kids and drove to Dun Laoghaire Pier to see the sunrise, which was utterly beautiful and just the tonic we all needed.

Spell ruined on walk back to car as groups from house parties had arrived to finish their booze and watch the sunrise. They weren't teenagers either. Left feeling utterly hopeless.

They knew it was their last free sunrise!

amadangomor · 18-10-2020 12:47PM

mandrake04 wrote: »

was always going to happen, as soon as travel increased cases would increase a few weeks later.

Travel is the virus friend.

Correlation does not equal causation.

GooglePlus · 18-10-2020 12:48PM

How do we know that retail is low risk? Anyone catching Covid won't know they picked it up there and the increased movement of people into centres for the use of retail increases the use of public transport also.

rob316 · 18-10-2020 12:48PM

the corpo wrote: »

Got up really early this morning with the kids and drove to Dun Laoghaire Pier to see the sunrise, which was utterly beautiful and just the tonic we all needed.

Spell ruined on walk back to car as groups from house parties had arrived to finish their booze and watch the sunrise. They weren't teenagers either. Left feeling utterly hopeless.

It's called people wanting to live their lives when the virus will have no effect on 99.9% of us.

stephenjmcd · 18-10-2020 12:48PM

rob316 wrote: »

So we are closing one of the lowest risk sectors of the economy, retail. It'll do nothing absolutely nothing and maybe people will finally realize there is nowhere to go then and we have to ride it out till a vaccine comes.

Closing retail makes zero sense to me. Your not really doing anything that'll make much difference. All closing retail does is put hundreds of thousands back onto PUP.

You can be guaranteed retail reopens first week in December and it'll be a mess because everyone will be cramming in their Christmas shopping. Zero logic

s1ippy · 18-10-2020 12:48PM

Russman wrote: »

Government changed and certain politicians who were still used to the old ways of thinking, got close to power and can’t grasp the enormity of situation.

I mean, Leo has been taoiseach (albeit unelected) for years before this and he is the absolute worst of them throughout this recent charade.

I think they're just tired of it, tired of floundering and looking stupid when things go more and more wrong, tired of no time off from it, tired of people braying about jobs and schools and sickness.

They didn't expect to have to actually do anything meaningful in these roles, hence why they were absolutely furious about the "splurge" in the budget. It didn't even come close to being generous, but what is allocated is money taken from what could be the kitty for their fourth and fifth bonuses this year.

I actually think they should all step down given their recent behaviour in the context of what is currently going on. I have no exceptions to that statement, every single one of them is dragging the country down with their ignomy, greed, entitlement and uselessness. Of course they wouldn't have the first clue how to organise an election which wouldn't require mass attendance at the ballot box so infuriatingly, we're stuck with them until there's no pandemic at the earliest. Sometimes I understand why those protesting, far right morons are so angry.

440Hertz · 18-10-2020 12:51PM

carveone wrote: »

Totally agree and "crippling" is the right word.

Except as far as I can see "sports training" can take place a level 4. As I walked by the local playing pitches just now, there was "sports training" taking place in two large groups of about 30 each. I suppose that's nothing compared to the nearby schools where kids hang around in groups of 100!

Whatever you think about any of that, it seems completely deranged to allow something like sports, or hell even schools, while closing all retail. Which, in my humble opinion, will destroy large numbers of SMEs in this country, most of which are barely hanging on as it is.

I honestly don't see why we can't have lockdown with all shops remaining open. If supermarkets are open with 100s of people, why can't my local hardware stay open, with 2 or 3 people. Retail is a masked controlled environment. None of this makes any sense at all - I'm very frustrated...

To be quite honest I don’t understand the assessment of risk for retail.
If they keep the numbers in stores managed, the sanitary measures high, deal with ventilation and so on it’s hardly that big a risk.

Supermarkets operated right through the whole thing, with seemingly no impact.

The high risks are around busy events, tight spaces and honestly I do agree with the need to restrict bars and so on.

But I think we are shooting ourselves in the feet with a very questionable analysis of retail environments.

I mean remember when there was that fuss over hardware stores? I don’t think I have ever really seen a packed Woodies or B&Q. In normal times they’re probably one of the most socially distant places possible. It’s the same with say garden centres.

They need to avoid super busy retail spaces, big footfall promotions and so on but surely that’s manageable.

For the money that’s cost by a closure, surely we could have a bunch of retail health advisors hired and rolled out or redeployed from other parts of the health system as public health prevention officers?

is_that_so · 18-10-2020 12:51PM

GooglePlus wrote: »

How do we know that retail is low risk? Anyone catching Covid won't know they picked it up there and the increased movement of people into centres for the use of retail increases the use of public transport also.

You don't but you clearly want to believe it's a higher risk. We've been doing it for months, even in the summer when cases were much lower than they are now. They would have shown up then.

rob316 · 18-10-2020 12:52PM

Russman wrote: »

So, everyone seems to know where the virus is NOT spreading, it’s not in retail, it’s not in hairdressers, it’s not on the sports pitches etc etc.
Does anyone know for sure where it IS actually spreading ? Wouldn’t that be the first thing they should shut down ?

It's spreading into homes from schools. Closing schools doesn't seem to be an option though so we are killing our economy instead

is_that_so · 18-10-2020 12:54PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Ah I think people are fairly sussed in now that the restrictions time is fairly changeable but can understand logic of not saying it too. Yeah Christmas definitely will and I think most people would be aware of that.

They still need to say it and own it - this will probably last until Christmas. As pointed out above, a promised and rushed reversal will bring chaos.

Jinglejangle69 · 18-10-2020 12:54PM

rob316 wrote: »

It's spreading into homes from schools. Closing schools doesn't seem to be an option though so we are killing our economy instead

So the virus magically started in schools and was brought into houses?

Interesting theory

MD1990 · 18-10-2020 12:55PM

rob316 wrote: »

It's called people wanting to live their lives when the virus will have no effect on 99.9% of us.

Very well worded.

Its people focusing on themselves rather than others which has us in this mess.

Im personally not worried about contracting the virus but passing it on to someone else.

Your attitude is the one that has us in this position now.

If this continues to rise & your in a car accident or need an operation for something you can forget about getting healthcare.

It isnt all about Covid but the knock on affect.

hynesie08 · 18-10-2020 12:56PM

Russman wrote: »

So, everyone seems to know where the virus is NOT spreading, it’s not in retail, it’s not in hairdressers, it’s not on the sports pitches etc etc.
Does anyone know for sure where it IS actually spreading ? Wouldn’t that be the first thing they should shut down ?

Schools.

Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

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