Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

bb1234567 · 18-10-2020 11:41AM

BringBackMick wrote: »

Yes and countries with lower numbers have huge positivity rates, Hungary positivity rate approaching 20%

They havent panicked there yet and life is per normal but probably will change soon

Just to give a comparison to our hospital numbers, there is no widespread panic in Hungary and most things are open

This is the situation there
The total number of active COVID-19 cases is 31,060. The results show that 31 percent of those infected, 41 percent of the deceased, and 30 percent of those recovered live in Budapest. There are currently 1,712 patients hospitalized with the coronavirus, 179 of whom are on ventilators.

The population there is twice ours,

It just gives an idea of how ridiculous the panic here is.....YES we need to make decisions and nip this in the bud but shutting down our country for approaching 300 hospitalizations due to covid is just bonkers.

Yes in Budapest a large marahton is going ahead today. I'd see how that goes for them first before dismissing caution over here though

Akrasia · 18-10-2020 11:42AM

manniot2 wrote: »

Oh but its ok to target someone that did all of the above except in Spain?

Yes. Because the only way to get to Spain is, on at least 2occasions, to spend hours trapped in a metal incubator crammed with strangers from all around the world with a recirculating air supply

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/09/studies-trace-covid-19-spread-international-flights

Ireland had gotten in control of the virus but people kept reinfecting us from abroad, these were both incoming foreign visitors and Irish holiday makers returning from abroad

The incidence of infection at holiday resorts in Europe was way higher than anywhere else at the time. They were obviously going to be key vectors for spreading the virus and any tourists who went to these places and brought the infection back with them ought to be ashamed of themselves

Widdensushi · 18-10-2020 11:42AM

bb1234567 wrote: »

With major outbreaks in Sloevnia, Slovakia , Greece and even iceland..covid is now out of control in literally every corner of the entire continent. Per capita Finland and Norway are doing by far the best in Europe but even they are still reporting hundreds of new cases daily

This is it, tougher restrictions just don't seem to be working this time, people are tired of it, it's unstoppable and inevitable.

froog · 18-10-2020 11:43AM

where did this myth of every country other than ireland being an oasis of perfect calm in the face of the pandemic come from? politicians and public mental health are a mess everywhere.

WoollyRedHat · 18-10-2020 11:43AM

BringBackMick wrote: »

Yes and countries with lower numbers have huge positivity rates, Hungary positivity rate approaching 20%

They havent panicked there yet and life is per normal but probably will change soon

Just to give a comparison to our hospital numbers, there is no widespread panic in Hungary and most things are open

This is the situation there
The total number of active COVID-19 cases is 31,060. The results show that 31 percent of those infected, 41 percent of the deceased, and 30 percent of those recovered live in Budapest. There are currently 1,712 patients hospitalized with the coronavirus, 179 of whom are on ventilators.

The population there is twice ours,

It just gives an idea of how ridiculous the panic here is.....YES we need to make decisions and nip this in the bud but shutting down our country for approaching 300 hospitalizations due to covid is just bonkers.

We're looking at 400 hospitalizations by early November nationally. When that happens, we won't be able to treat everyone that requires healthcare.

rob316 · 18-10-2020 11:44AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ShaneBeattyNews/status/1317769127755452416?s=19

Again remove Tony Holohan it's an absolute circus since he came back. Glynn knew his remit give advice not stage a nphet Vs government battle.

Jenna James · 18-10-2020 11:44AM

JTMan wrote: »

I am told that one retailer is getting more staff in tomorrow and expecting the biggest shopping day of the year. Today and tomorrow (and Tuesday if the new restrictions do not apply until Tuesday midnight) are likely to be big shopping days.

This combined with the bad weather forecast sounds like AVOID.

mandrake04 · 18-10-2020 11:45AM

bb1234567 wrote: »

With major outbreaks in Sloevnia, Slovakia , Greece and even iceland..covid is now out of control in literally every corner of the entire continent. Per capita Finland and Norway are doing by far the best in Europe but even they are still reporting hundreds of new cases daily

was always going to happen, as soon as travel increased cases would increase a few weeks later.

Travel is the virus friend.

froog · 18-10-2020 11:46AM

The coronavirus remains active on human skin for nine hours, Japanese researchers have found.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1018/1172276-coronavirus-skin-study/

keep washing your hands.

Ger Roe · 18-10-2020 11:46AM

BringBackMick wrote: »

Yes and countries with lower numbers have huge positivity rates, Hungary positivity rate approaching 20%

They havent panicked there yet and life is per normal but probably will change soon

Just to give a comparison to our hospital numbers, there is no widespread panic in Hungary and most things are open

This is the situation there
The total number of active COVID-19 cases is 31,060. The results show that 31 percent of those infected, 41 percent of the deceased, and 30 percent of those recovered live in Budapest. There are currently 1,712 patients hospitalized with the coronavirus, 179 of whom are on ventilators.

The population there is twice ours,

It just gives an idea of how ridiculous the panic here is.....YES we need to make decisions and nip this in the bud but shutting down our country for approaching 300 hospitalizations due to covid is just bonkers.

Covid is highlighting the long previously existing issue, that our health system has been badly mismanaged for many decades and through various governments of all political persuasions. The problem is that some of those people are still responsible for it, either still working in it, or in Government positions making decisions about it, when they previously had direct responsibility for managing it, and they either did nothing, or made things worse - while throwing vast amounts of money into the health black hole to keep it operating at the abysmal level that we came to accept.

Management of our public services is the major issue, before Covid and now during it. We are reaping what we sowed, if anything it should at least inform the electorate that the quality of health care services that we have endured up until now, is no longer acceptable. Even without Covid, we would be heading for another health care crisis this winter - same as every year.

Happydays2020 · 18-10-2020 11:47AM

mandrake04 wrote: »

was always going to happen, as soon as travel increased cases would increase a few weeks later.

Travel is the virus friend.

Greece is not having major issues in the tourist spots and it opened up travel to the world.

is_that_so · 18-10-2020 11:47AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

You too can be liked.
Wonder when we'll get around to it.

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1317661092953325569?s=20

Easy to be liked when you're in the middle of nowhere and the toughest decision is whether to allow your own people come home.

18-10-2020 11:49AM

rob316 wrote: »

Again remove Tony Holohan it's an absolute circus since he came back. Glynn knew his remit give advice not stage a nphet Vs government battle.

Are you suggesting that it was Dr Holohan who leaked the first go-to-Level-5 report and the report NPHET gave the goverment last Thursday evening?

is_that_so · 18-10-2020 11:50AM

froog wrote: »

The coronavirus remains active on human skin for nine hours, Japanese researchers have found.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1018/1172276-coronavirus-skin-study/

keep washing your hands.

And they should have gone with wash your hands not the panic-inducing version!

Plumbthedepths · 18-10-2020 11:50AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Easy to be liked when you're in the middle of nowhere and the toughest decision is whether to allow your own people come home.

Jacinda ,the Heroine of the Zero Covid zealots. Telling them why it wouldn't work here is like conversing with a wall.

AVFC.Stephen · 18-10-2020 11:50AM

OscarMIlde wrote: »

Nope, and I don't believe I should have anyway. Apart from changes in my shift schedule to facilitate social distancing and the requirement to wear a mask at all times my work has not altered. It has been slightly more challenging as due to the nature of my work it was fairly quiet in March/April but extremely busy in the summer and I ended up staying late a lot to get all my results out.

There is nothing wrong with being comfortable... I deal with 20+ folks a day and we also are temperature checked twice a day and wear a mask... these 20 folks coulda been in a previous post party which i stay away from... if i have to approach these folks or even have a group huddle which is required at the start of every shift if you go by H&S standards then i feel i cant go to see my family whether they live next door or whether its march july or even october

My point is that my life has changed due to the requirements of c19 and if I'm to continue this way i might aswell tell family and loved ones i will see you in 2022

You want my time? I personally believe it's worth something. Instead the government have approached this at the start with good guideline. Now its completely mixed. For example there is so many stories of kids going to school yet the person beside them is not considered a close contact. Sorry for the rant but even jobs like lidl check out should be paid more for there job... every day they put there loved ones at risk

Happydays2020 · 18-10-2020 11:51AM

440Hertz wrote: »

I’d like to know who in government, as I would like to ensure that I don’t ever accidentally vote for them again.

Seems like we are probably incapable of managing this if that’s the level of discussion around government.

Yes having a committee of 39 people (With questionable expertise) led by an egomaniac advising Government In the times of the biggest economic and social crisis since 1940 is the way to go.

bb1234567 · 18-10-2020 11:54AM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Greece is not having major issues in the tourist spots and it opened up travel to the world.

Greece reopened to tourists in early July, three weeks later they started seeing over 100 cases daily yet again

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/greece/

rob316 · 18-10-2020 11:57AM

Balagan1 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that it was Dr Holohan who leaked the first go-to-Level-5 report and the report NPHET gave the goverment last Thursday evening?

Possibly but the issue is that holohan has this bizarre following from the first wave as he locked down the country and was the saviour.

What he stands for is at odds with the government's "living with the virus" strategy and it's caused a political public battle which is doing nothing to quell the public mood.

NPHET have one purpose and one only, advise on public health, the government have to look after the public interest. Some people just can't understand the difference.

Right or wrong, the government can not be undermined under any circumstances by NPHET.

Happydays2020 · 18-10-2020 11:58AM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Greece reopened to tourists in early July, three weeks later they started seeing over 100 cases daily yet again

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/greece/

No. Greece’s relatively minor issues were like everywhere else related to reopening the economy. These issues were broadly related to the return of Bulgarian workers. Thessaloniki is where their biggest outbreaks have been and most countries would bite their hand off for the levels that Greece has now.

440Hertz · 18-10-2020 12:02PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Yes having a committee of 39 people (With questionable expertise) led by an egomaniac advising Government In the times of the biggest economic and social crisis since 1940 is the way to go.

Understanding that they’re an advisory committee and being politically self confident enough to make cabinet decisions without ranting to journalists with a load of hyperbolic nonsense might be more appropriate.

We made lousy decisions ahead of the financial crisis by shutting down expert opinions that were unpleasant.

This is a total mess but it would be like going back to 1940 and sticking your fingers in your ears when you got an intelligence report that wasn’t very pleasant either.

Their job is to analyse advice and make decisions, taking all information available into account at cabinet.

NPHET also isn’t there to provide politically convenient advice. If you go that route you’re straight into Trump or Johnson territory. Reality is there and it’s just not always pleasant or agreeable.

Cabinet needs to stop running around like a bunch of headless chickens leaking the press though. It’s awful for public moral and gives a sense of lack of leadership.

If it hadn’t been for the utter lack of leadership in the last few months, NPHET members wouldn’t be in the public limelight to the level they are anyway. The government spent months hiding and then went on summer holiday.

Caquas · 18-10-2020 12:02PM

political analyst wrote: »

There's no call for all this opprobrium being heaped on the scientists who signed the Great Barrington Declaration (e.g. Sunetra Gupta). They're not sociopaths!

Even level-headed commentators are sinking to the tactics of the Twitterati when it comes to this Declaration.

Colm McCarthy's article in today's Sindo is a glaring exception to the high-calibre data analysis and rational commentary which has distinguished his long career as an economic commentator. He takes a highly selective approach - focussing on two of the eight facts in the IT ad,

since there are other people better versed in the remainder.

. He is not generally known for his intellectual modesty and I suspect he feared to venture into debate on anything more complicated that the first two facts:

Median age of death from Covid-19 is 83.

and

The current life expectancy in Ireland is 81.5 years.

He then explains that the first number is a mean (average) and criticises the ad for making a comparison between a mean and a median number. Sadly, he doesn't tell us what the mean age of death from COVID-19 but he does introduce a very different number - the number of more years an 83 year old in Ireland can expect to live (8.47 for women, 7.14 for men). He also claims that some estimates say that as much as 30% of the Irish population can be classed as "vulnerable" .

We need intelligent evidence-based debate and the experts should admit that they didn't fully understand this virus when the pandemic began. The first thing the government did was to close all the schools (after Leo met VP Mike Pence!), now we are going to keep the schools open when everything else must close. How about those masks? And is Leo right to say the virus is spread by door-bells? Even before the pandemic, we needed a serious debate about health care and quality of life for the very elderly. The nursing home debacle in the Spring was the worst failure of this pandemic thus far. "Cocooning" has become an Orwellian term for social isolation.

Instead of reasoned debate, we get this kind of snarky, dismissive comment, attacking the credibility of a dissenter and threatening her institutional position.

As for Dr Gupta, it is very naughty of the University of Oxford to appoint, especially to chairs in quantitative subjects such as epidemiology, people unfamiliar with secondary school statistical concepts like means and medians.

This baseless, disparaging remark would be a career-ending comment for Colm McCarthy if Dr. Gupta had been writing about race or gender. But because she is taking the "wrong" side of the COVID debate, she becomes fair game. The Sindo dropped Kevin Myers like a scalding latke for much less.
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/see-saw-let-it-rip-and-zero-covid-three-strategies-but-only-one-works-39637221.html

is_that_so · 18-10-2020 12:05PM

440Hertz wrote: »

Understanding that they’re an advisory committee and being politically self confident enough to make cabinet decisions without ranting to journalists with a load of hyperbolic nonsense might be more appropriate.

We made lousy decisions ahead of the financial crisis by shutting down expert opinions that were unpleasant.

This is a total mess but it would be like going back to 1940 and sticking your fingers in your ears when you got an intelligence report that wasn’t very pleasant either.

Their job is to analyse advice and make decisions, taking all information available into account at cabinet.

NPHET also isn’t there to provide politically convenient advice. If you go that route you’re straight into Trump or Johnson territory. Reality is there and it’s just not always pleasant or agreeable.

They could still do with someone to point out potential political fallout and HOW they communicate information. They've advised Level 5 twice and the government are still not having it. That kind of advice becomes useless after a while.

Happydays2020 · 18-10-2020 12:07PM

440Hertz wrote: »

Understanding that they’re an advisory committee and being politically self confident enough to make cabinet decisions without ranting to journalists with a load of hyperbolic nonsense might be more appropriate.

We made lousy decisions ahead of the financial crisis by shutting down expert opinions that were unpleasant.

This is a total mess but it would be like going back to 1940 and sticking your fingers in your ears when you got an intelligence report that wasn’t very pleasant either.

Their job is to analyse advice and make decisions, taking all information available into account.

NPHET also isn’t there to provide politically convenient advice. If you go that route you’re straight into Trump or Johnson territory. Reality is there and it’s just not always pleasant or agreeable.

We need a permanent structure of experts advising the Taosieach directly. So create a Covid division within Department of the Taoiseach. This is way beyond public health at this stage. This is what has been successfully done previously and notably Northern Ireland.

I am very happy to have the likes of Nolan and DeGascun involved. But it is in no ones interest to have the current charade playing out in public through spin and counter spin.

khalessi · 18-10-2020 12:10PM

PArt of the issue with the government and NPHET is Tony dealt with the old government who seemed to be able to communicate with NPHET. The present incumbents are incapable of releasing any message without confusion, even after hiring pr a few months ago. Whatever happened to them?

Jack1985 · 18-10-2020 12:11PM

Simon Harris has just said on The Week In Politics that more restrictions nationwide will be brought in tomorrow for ‘decisive action’ and that Level 3 has not worked.

440Hertz · 18-10-2020 12:12PM

Ger Roe wrote: »

Covid is highlighting the long previously existing issue, that our health system has been badly mismanaged for many decades and through various governments of all political persuasions. The problem is that some of those people are still responsible for it, either still working in it, or in Government positions making decisions about it, when they previously had direct responsibility for managing it, and they either did nothing, or made things worse - while throwing vast amounts of money into the health black hole to keep it operating at the abysmal level that we came to accept.

Management of our public services is the major issue, before Covid and now during it. We are reaping what we sowed, if anything it should at least inform the electorate that the quality of health care services that we have endured up until now, is no longer acceptable. Even without Covid, we would be heading for another health care crisis this winter - same as every year.

I’d argue that COVID-19 should give the government both the reason for and also the moral authority to now drive major reforms of the health system and for the first time be able to tell the various vested interests that have always been huge blockers of reform to get out of the way.

We need to get to the bottom of why the Irish healthcare system has so many issues because it’s an essential piece of national infrastructure and we should now be able to see why having a floundering healthcare system leaves us very exposed as a country and has serious economic implications.

Whatever has been going on resources aren’t getting to the places they should have been getting to, her we appear to be spending a fortune in €/capita. So either we are doing something very weird with what we are categorising as health spending, or we are getting extremely poor value, or possibly both.

Happydays2020 · 18-10-2020 12:13PM

Jack1985 wrote: »

Simon Harris has just said on The Week In Politics that more restrictions nationwide will be brought in tomorrow for ‘decisive action’ and that Level 3 has not worked.

Town will be mad today. People doing their Christmas shopping.

Happydays2020 · 18-10-2020 12:13PM

440Hertz wrote: »

I’d argue that COVID-19 should give the government both the reason for and also the moral authority to now drive major reforms of the health system and for the first time be able to tell the various vested interests that have always been huge blockers of reform to get out of the way.

We need to get to the bottom of why the Irish healthcare system has so many issues because it’s an essential piece of national infrastructure and we should now be able to see why having a floundering healthcare system leaves us very exposed as a country and has serious economic implications.

I would agree with that but I do not trust the Dept of Health or HSE to guide and deliver this.

440Hertz · 18-10-2020 12:17PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I would agree with that but I do not trust the Dept of Health or HSE to guide and deliver this.

I’d agree with that. I honestly think the Troika should have driven this back in 2008, as it’s an area that we don’t have any ability to reform and it has been an absolute smoking mess for decades.

The only way I would see of reforming Irish health would be to bring in an external version of NPHET focused on analysis of what’s wrong with the system. It would need to be driven by a team from public health systems that actually work and would need to be given leeway to be brutally honest with the analysis.

We’ve more than adequate national resources to have one of the best health systems on the planet, but we don’t. That’s an absolute disgrace tbh and as a nation we should be embarrassed by it.
We also need to stop playing the poor mouth excuse. It’s not 1982 or 1952 and it’s very reasonable to expect excellent public health in what is a very wealthy economy.

It’s like having loads of money and refusing point blank to repair the roof.

Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

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