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Registration of classic vehicles after Brexit

  • 12-10-2020 7:15pm
    #1
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭


    This is one topic that will prick everyone's ears up!

    Last week, the Revenue Commissioners held a conference to explain what is going to happen. I sat through this presentation and picked out the important points and no one here is going to like it so don't shoot the messenger!

    Remember this is NOT the Government scabing money from us. These rules are the WTO rules as from Jan 1st the UK has the same legal standing as Bangladesh, ie a 'Third Country'

    1. From Jan 1st 2020, to register any vehicle in Ireland that came from the UK, the vehicle must have a customs declaration form. To get a customs declaration form, you drive off the boat into the customs area, pay your duty and VAT (yes I know) and collect your customs declaration.
    2. Any vehicle from the UK cannot be registered in the Republic of Ireland, or anywhere in the EU without this document.
    3. You still have the same amount of time to VRT the vehicle but without the customs document you will be turned away.
    4. UK registered vehicles already here in private hands have until Dec 31st to get things sorted and it wont matter if there is a long queue and you cant get it done in time. These are the World Trade Organisations rules, not the Revenue Department

    All vehicle transactions after Jan 1st will require proof of transit


    So there you have it. Don't ask me any questions as all the information is now on www.revenue.ie.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adcEMYY0Sbk


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Comments

  • #2
    Testacalda
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭Testacalda


    My understanding of it is, that if you own a UK registered vehicle at the moment, and its here in the state, there is no additional panic on anyone to get it registered before the end of 2020, from a Import Duty point of view anyway.

    From a VRT point of view, one might be over the requirement to registered the vehicle within the 30 days of import, but late VRT is a separate issue, that generally isn't a big deal for 'vintage' vehicles anyway

    So you just need to be able to proof that the vehicle was here prior to 1st Jan 2021.

    So I wonder what is a valid way of proving it your vehicle was in Ireland before Brexit, perhaps a signed and dated receipt from the person you bought it from? Was always acceptable to revenue for the VRT process anyway. For private sales that's the 'invoice'

    Also I see that no import duty for vehicles from Northern Ireland, but you still need the Customs declaration.

    interesting stuff... :pac:


  • #3
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭w124man


    Testacalda wrote: »
    My understanding of it is, that if you own a UK registered vehicle at the moment, and its here in the state, there is no additional panic on anyone to get it registered before the end of 2020, from a Import Duty point of view anyway.

    They make it very clear that a vehicle with UK plates presented after 31st Dec will need a Customs Declaration. If you have a UK reg vehicle now, in the country, you have until then to do get it VRT'd. With Covid and everything else going on, that doesn't leave a lot of time to get it done. This of course will throw up its own issues.

    Its very clear. If you haven't paid the VRT by 31/12/20, you will also be paying duty and VAT


  • #4
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,693 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    w124man wrote: »
    Its very clear. If you haven't paid the VRT by 31/12/20, you will also be paying duty and VAT

    +1

    And rightly so. Will be funny to see all those yellow reg cars on DD drop in value to next to nothing early next year :D


  • #5
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,375 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    This may be challenged, as VAT has already been paid in a EU country. On this basis they might not be able to ask for it again.

    This would only apply to cars registered in the UK up to Dec 31st 2020.

    A good example would be a 2018 Hyundai, built in South Korea and imported and VAT'd in 2018. The VAT was paid once due to it being imported, so theoretically it should be exempt if reimported into the EU (RoI) again in 2021 or 2022. I think a couple of larger second hand importers will be looking at it and may challenge it. This is what I heard around the beginning of the summer.

    SIMI boys will be having wet dreams tonight as it increases prices of desirable younger imports meaning they get to shift Irish cars at much higer prices.

    Long term; if it passes, it means car prices here will only go up, and there will be a lot less choice.


  • #6
    Brianmwalker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Brianmwalker


    Seems like you could get it registered in Northern Ireland from main land UK and then import to ROI without having to pay vat/duty?

    Thanks for the video link btw


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  • #7
    Testacalda
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭Testacalda


    w124man wrote: »
    They make it very clear that a vehicle with UK plates presented after 31st Dec will need a Customs Declaration. If you have a UK reg vehicle now, in the country, you have until then to do get it VRT'd. With Covid and everything else going on, that doesn't leave a lot of time to get it done. This of course will throw up its own issues.

    Its very clear. If you haven't paid the VRT by 31/12/20, you will also be paying duty and VAT

    Yes you will need a customs declaration, but no additional customs duty is due if you have an invoice showing vehicle sold prior to Brexit. So no one need panic!


  • #8
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    all guess work. Best plan surely is to get it all cleared pre 2021


  • #9
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    How long approximately is it taking at the moment from applying to VRT a car with the NCT to presenting the car for inspection?


  • #10
    Bigus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,938 ✭✭✭Bigus


    Testacalda wrote: »
    Yes you will need a customs declaration, but no additional customs duty is due if you have an invoice showing vehicle sold prior to Brexit. So no one need panic!

    In my previous experience of customs (pre free market) they SHOOT first and ask questions later, so I wouldn’t be so smug if I was you, on what’s actually “correct” . Customs have much more power than the Garda and will use that power unfairly if they feel like it.

    They’ll even impound cars and leave windows and doors / sunroofs open in stormy weather if you act the smart ares with them . So in other words you’ll never get the better of them monetarily, which is exactly what they want .

    Perhaps your invoice will work after many years of court, but the car will be worthless then .


  • #11
    Testacalda
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭Testacalda


    Bigus wrote: »
    In my previous experience of customs (pre free market) they SHOOT first and ask questions later, so I wouldn’t be so smug if I was you, on what’s actually “correct” . Customs have much more power than the Garda and will use that power unfairly if they feel like it.

    They’ll even impound cars and leave windows and doors / sunroofs open in stormy weather if you act the smart ares with them . So in other words you’ll never get the better of them monetarily, which is exactly what they want .

    Perhaps your invoice will work after many years of court, but the car will be worthless then .

    This new situation doesn't effect me personally, however, I suspect those who weren't bother by having a UK reg car up to now, still wont be all that bothered by the new rules.


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  • #12
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭w124man


    KevRossi wrote: »
    This may be challenged, as VAT has already been paid in a EU country.

    Who are they going to challenge? The EU? The Irish Government? The UK from midnight 31/12/ 2020 will be a "third country". Whatever happened before is irrelevant.

    Also the point is already being missed is that these new rules are not the Irish Customs rules or the governments, this is the WTO calling the shots.

    It is also very clear that any vehicle being presented after 31/12/2020 will be liable EVEN if the invoice is dated before that date.


  • #13
    steinbock123
    Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭steinbock123


    What is the duty going to be under WTO rules (on a classic) and on what figure will it be levied, price when new or current market value or cost including freight or what?
    Which figure will the VAT be charged on?


  • #14
    80sDiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    steinbock123 wrote: »
    What is the duty going to be under WTO rules (on a classic) and on what figure will it be levied, price when new or current market value or cost including freight or what?
    Which figure will the VAT be charged on?

    Customs = cost of car + shipping
    VAT = cost of car + shipping + customs.

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



  • #15
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,751 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    unkel wrote: »
    +1

    And rightly so. Will be funny to see all those yellow reg cars on DD drop in value to next to nothing early next year :D

    Indeed there's a few Boxsters/911's in that category atmo..... be interesting to see what happens there....

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #16
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,693 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Indeed there's a few Boxsters/911's in that category atmo..... be interesting to see what happens there....

    Anything with a bit of value will go back on boatie (or to the north)


  • #17
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,375 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    Price of brown logbooks set to explode.


  • #18
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,249 ✭✭✭jmreire


    KevRossi wrote: »
    This may be challenged, as VAT has already been paid in a EU country. On this basis they might not be able to ask for it again.

    This would only apply to cars registered in the UK up to Dec 31st 2020.

    A good example would be a 2018 Hyundai, built in South Korea and imported and VAT'd in 2018. The VAT was paid once due to it being imported, so theoretically it should be exempt if reimported into the EU (RoI) again in 2021 or 2022. I think a couple of larger second hand importers will be looking at it and may challenge it. This is what I heard around the beginning of the summer.

    SIMI boys will be having wet dreams tonight as it increases prices of desirable younger imports meaning they get to shift Irish cars at much higer prices.

    Long term; if it passes, it means car prices here will only go up, and there will be a lot less choice.
    But in that case,it will depend on the amount of spendable cash being available.....which is not looking too hot right now :o


  • #19
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,751 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    unkel wrote: »
    Anything with a bit of value will go back on boatie (or to the north)

    And the NI will know why and it'll possibly become a buyers market knowing there's no market down here.

    Interesting times as they say....

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #20
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,249 ✭✭✭jmreire


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Price of brown logbooks set to explode.

    Have a 1965 Ford Orion Brown Logbook :rolleyes:


  • #21
    steinbock123
    Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭steinbock123


    jmreire wrote: »
    Have a 1965 Ford Orion Brown Logbook :rolleyes:

    Surely that’s 1985 ?
    Don’t think the Orion was around in ‘65.


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  • #22
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,249 ✭✭✭jmreire


    steinbock123 wrote: »
    Surely that’s 1985 ?
    Don’t think the Orion was around in ‘65.

    And you are right too !! I got mixed up in the cars.....:( I also had a 1965 Cortina at one stage ( long gone, unfortunately,, :( and of course the 1985 Orion. All of which remains is the old brown logbook.


  • #23
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,693 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    steinbock123 wrote: »
    Surely that’s 1985 ?
    Don’t think the Orion was around in ‘65.

    Hey this is Ireland. I'm sure if you look hard enough, you could find someone to actually sell you a '65 Orion brown book :pac:


  • #24
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,249 ✭✭✭jmreire


    unkel wrote: »
    Hey this is Ireland. I'm sure if you look hard enough, you could find someone to actually sell you a '65 Orion brown book :pac:

    Its GFI Reg...North Tipp.. and 4 carefull owners.. ;);););):);)


  • #25
    Bikeface
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Bikeface


    w124man wrote: »
    They make it very clear that a vehicle with UK plates presented after 31st Dec will need a Customs Declaration. If you have a UK reg vehicle now, in the country, you have until then to do get it VRT'd. With Covid and everything else going on, that doesn't leave a lot of time to get it done. This of course will throw up its own issues.

    Its very clear. If you haven't paid the VRT by 31/12/20, you will also be paying duty and VAT

    I changed the address on a 1991to a Derry address to avoid this issue


  • #26
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Bikeface wrote: »
    I changed the address on a 1991to a Derry address to avoid this issue

    How? still a UK registered vehicle. If there's no deal, there's no deal in NI too I guess.


  • #27
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭w124man


    Bikeface wrote: »
    I changed the address on a 1991to a Derry address to avoid this issue

    How will that work?


  • #28
    ccmp
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭ccmp


    It looks like the imports from the uk for classics will be a thing of the past. I was proceeding under the assumption that there would be a last minute deal and we would pay 200 euros as before. I'm looking at a car in the uk at the moment and about to close out the deal. Don't know what to do now. It's an April 1991 car.
    Anyone got any further insight or suggestions?


  • #29
    danoriordan1402
    Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭danoriordan1402


    Same scenario for me, I am just looking for the right one to pull the trigger on 1988-1990. Last chance saloon for paying the 200 VRT on a v8 Landy.....


  • #30
    80sDiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    ccmp wrote: »
    It looks like the imports from the uk for classics will be a thing of the past. I was proceeding under the assumption that there would be a last minute deal and we would pay 200 euros as before. I'm looking at a car in the uk at the moment and about to close out the deal. Don't know what to do now. It's an April 1991 car.
    Anyone got any further insight or suggestions?

    Even if last minute deal you will still have to pay customs and pay a customs agent to handle it. You can’t even see your car in customs without that agent present.
    Don’t believe you could drive the car on the ferry either as it needs to be dereged and would have to enter customs first before enters the ‘state’.

    So if petrol I would import now, if diesel would wait.

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



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  • #31
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭w124man


    ccmp wrote: »
    It looks like the imports from the uk for classics will be a thing of the past. I was proceeding under the assumption that there would be a last minute deal and we would pay 200 euros as before. I'm looking at a car in the uk at the moment and about to close out the deal. Don't know what to do now. It's an April 1991 car.
    Anyone got any further insight or suggestions?

    The classics will still be bought from the UK. Even if there is a last minute deal we will still pay duty and VAT as those are the WTO rules. If the car is 30 years old you will still pay €200 VRT. The VRT will not change because of this.

    Depending on what your April '91 car is, bring it in now.


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