Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

FintanMcluskey · 16-10-2020 01:05AM

440Hertz wrote: »

Because I have heard multiple friends and colleagues of mine regurgitate the same libertarian line. We were doing the Zooming and trying to recreate the pub atmosphere thing once in a few weeks and it’s gone down the lines of “sure it’s only the elderly” or “it’s only those with underlying issues” - “It’s ridiculous that the rest of us have to put up with all of these restrictions - it’s only the flu.”

I explained the risks I had & they quite literally didn’t give a flying ——.

I got an earful about why life was about risk and sure we all die sometime.

So that’s why I’ve become cynical and it’s continuously coming up as a theme here, on Twitter and elsewhere.

There comes a point when you just start to feel you’re being told over and over that you’re in the way / expendable. That’s where I am right now on this.

Ok I see your point now.

You are however still removed from the risk the elderly are at.

What’s the end goal here?

Where is normality?

majcos · 16-10-2020 01:06AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

It would be a high number of admissions over a such a short space of time.
They had 9 positive patients in 2 days (which some people on here put down to testing in hospitals, as in current patients on a ward or turning up with a sprained ankle)
Anyway, it seems like a substantial increase none the less.

97 cases in Galway today alone. Seems to be increasing in Galway unfortunately after relatively low numbers in the West throughout. Increased in 8/10 LEAs in Galway and one of the LEAs has fourth highest 14 day incidence rates in Ireland at 550.5. Higher than most of the LEA areas gone in to Level 4 tonight.

Not good news either way as you said.

auspicious · 16-10-2020 01:11AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

All European drugs have to be approved by a European agency.
If the oxford vaccine gets EU approval, the US FDA won't just accept that, they will also need to approve it.
Oxford have offered to test their vaccine in the US, so the FDA can monitor it and approve it etc... I don't believe a Russian company have offered the same.

Such as Brazil and Mexico, India had ordered it so I guess Europe have access to assessment too.
Though it has not yet full domestic support ( 54 percent of the more than 1,600 poll respondents said they were not ready to volunteer for vaccination ) I hope it is not discounted before alternatives are approved. It has 40k test volunteers. It holds the same uncertainty as any 'approved ' sort and as such should be included as the possible solution.

Pulsating Star · 16-10-2020 01:13AM

440Hertz wrote: »

This isn’t new in my case. It’s basically an electrical pathway issue in my heart. Have had it for years.

I would suggest getting that reviewed by a cardiologist.

I wish I could, they won’t see me because of Covid. I couldn’t have got this at a worse time.
I am positive there will be a vaccine, there has to be . I have 20 years left to work and can’t be dodging this virus forever.

mandrake04 · 16-10-2020 01:16AM

speckle wrote: »

Funsterdelux wrote: »

2020 goes from worse to worser

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40065815.html

Blast...I was posting earlier in the year not to go near dolphins on soc. media didn't want covid to jump species or choke on discarded masks. Hopefully he is just hiding from all the madness or maybe he just misses our smiles.:)

Maybe he has f**ked off to NZ for a few years, until all this covid blows over.

mandrake04 · 16-10-2020 01:20AM

polesheep wrote: »

Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.

After that who cares? he is a mile away - and you got his shoes!

440Hertz · 16-10-2020 01:20AM

mandrake04 wrote: »

Maybe he has f**ked off to NZ for a few years, until all this covid blows over.

He’s apparently been found again. He was just socially distancing.

https://twitter.com/skippereditor/status/1316881851361992705?s=21

speckle · 16-10-2020 01:21AM

Pulsating Star wrote: »

I wish I could, they won’t see me because of Covid. I couldn’t have got this at a worse time.
I am positive there will be a vaccine, there has to be . I have 20 years left to work and can’t be dodging this virus forever.

Us high riskers will get through this and maybe we will all meet up for a shindig, and will still be headbanging, moshing or even waltzing with our zimmer frames in our 80s:D:eek::cool:

speckle · 16-10-2020 01:27AM

440Hertz wrote: »

He’s apparently been found again. He was just socially distancing.

https://twitter.com/skippereditor/status/1316881851361992705?s=21

Woo Hoo,Yippidity Doo Dah..

mandrake04 · 16-10-2020 01:31AM

440Hertz wrote: »

He’s apparently been found again. He was just socially distancing.

https://twitter.com/skippereditor/status/1316881851361992705?s=21

Well at least he's adhering to the guidelines.

majcos · 16-10-2020 01:40AM

douglashyde wrote: »

For those that care about the data, a new (peer reviewed) study published by the WHO. Here.

- Infection fatality rate is .23% on average & .05% for those <70. For context the regular flu has a mortality rate of .1%.

In any case a random person has a 431/1 chance of dying of COVID (IF you catch it). If you are <70 years of age, it's 2,000/1. Statistically Speaking.

The odds of dying of choking on food are 2600/1. Source.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is........ chew your damn food.

Surprised by the figure for lifetime risk of dying by choking on food. Did not realise at all that it was this high.

Covid is 2-2.5 times more lethal than flu according to that data with the difference that we have no vaccine for Covid and possibly less pre-existing immunity. Covid more contagious than influenza.

0.23 IFR of all 4900000 people is over 11,000 deaths. If all were infected over a short period, the death rate would go up for Covid (and also for non Covid related issues) which is the theory behind the flatten the curve mantra

440Hertz · 16-10-2020 01:52AM

The big problem is we’ve only really seen a snapshot of how COVID-19 is playing out and so far it’s been outside the northern hemisphere’s (which seems to have been worse infected) winter season. If it’s showing strong seasonality, the second wave could be worse than the first.

So I don’t think anyone can really give a full picture until sometime in early 2021.

I suspect the treatment protocols and range of drugs improving will see the more impact on mortality than the vaccine in the in the near term, until we get wide enough vaccine uptake to hit herd immunity.

fritzelly · 16-10-2020 01:54AM

mandrake04 wrote: »

Well at least he's adhering to the guidelines.

Thought he'd emigrated to NZ

mandrake04 · 16-10-2020 01:59AM

fritzelly wrote: »

Thought he'd emigrated to NZ

Apparently he turned up, he might have been cocooning.

bb1234567 · 16-10-2020 02:01AM

silverharp wrote: »

Ivor Cummins is worth a listen here, thank god he watches RTE so I dont have to

https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1316756933676871681

Most of this smug pricks predictions fell flat on their hole exposing him for the spoofer he is so we'll thankfully stop seeing much more of his crap being posted in here from now on

mandrake04 · 16-10-2020 02:10AM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Most of this smug pricks predictions fell flat on their hole exposing him for the spoofer he is so we'll thankfully stop seeing much more of his crap being posted in here from now on

he knows his audience and plays up to them, his BS claims fits the retard narrative... of course gaining exposure to help sell his nutrition and Paleo diet books to those dumb enough to waste their money on such shite.

Why else would he invest so much time unless he was benefitting from it.

440Hertz · 16-10-2020 02:18AM

auspicious wrote: »

Such as Brazil and Mexico, India had ordered it so I guess Europe have access to assessment too.
Though it has not yet full domestic support ( 54 percent of the more than 1,600 poll respondents said they were not ready to volunteer for vaccination ) I hope it is not discounted before alternatives are approved. It has 40k test volunteers. It holds the same uncertainty as any 'approved ' sort and as such should be included as the possible solution.

Normally FDA, EMA, Japanese and other major drug testing and approval schemes run in parallel.

It’s no bad thing to have multiple agencies scrutinising the same thing independently though.

The drug companies would be aiming to get FDA and EMA approvals and authorisation close to simultaneously.

Also the respective agencies will be trying to step through these processes fully, but quickly. So there’ll be a lot of focus on getting covid related drugs and vaccines approved as a matter of urgency, which will more than likely just mean that other drugs are on slower paths as regulators will have shifted focus and available staff to assessing these projects.

Most of the grunt work is done by the drugs companies themselves though. It’s about providing verifiable, reproducible, transparent evidence to regulatory agencies, rather than the agencies doing the work for you. They typically just verify and validate everything, which in itself is a huge task.

Jack1985 · 16-10-2020 02:25AM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Most of this smug pricks predictions fell flat on their hole exposing him for the spoofer he is so we'll thankfully stop seeing much more of his crap being posted in here from now on

Why are they doing this ? (I CRINGE when I hear the phrase)

440Hertz · 16-10-2020 02:29AM

Jack1985 wrote: »

Why are they doing this ? (I CRINGE when I hear the phrase)

I look at the social psychology of it as a bit like people are grieving loss of normality.

The stages of grief, in the simplified Kübler-Ross model are:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Depression
4. Acceptance

I think the issue is more that the majority of the population is at 3. and 4.

The conspiracy theorists are firmly stuck at 1. and 2.

It’s much easier to believe that it’s all fake, overblown or some grand and very human plot than it is to accept a mindless virus is undermining a huge range of important aspects of all that we take for granted in normal life and a lot of things that make us happy.

It’s even harder to accept that it’s currently something that’s beyond the control of modern sciences. Our sense of technological invincibility has been severely dented and I think perhaps the popularity of conspiracy theories is down to a very wounded human ego. We don’t like to feel weak, but we are, at least until we can find solutions to it.

I think perhaps the reason the US has gone the deepest down that rabbit hole is that it’s also the most cocky and sure of itself nation on the planet. It’s been a huge shock to the American psyche to feel that an invisible virus, that doesn’t care what your nationality is or how big your nuclear weapons are, is simply is doing them the same damage as it is everyone else. The sense of exceptionalism is gone and that really hurts, if your entire belief system was that you were invincible. You can’t buy or shoot your way out of it.

So it’s much easier to just pretend it’s not happening and hide in a conspiracy theory or imagine it’s a bio weapon etc etc etc.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-10-2020 02:45AM

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1316895723003236355

Looking gloomy in the Czech Republic

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1316893714598547456

mandrake04 · 16-10-2020 02:47AM

440Hertz wrote: »

I look at the social psychology of it as a bit like people are grieving loss of normality.

The stages of grief, in the simplified Kübler-Ross model are:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Depression
4. Acceptance

I think the issue is more that the majority of the population is at 4. and 5.

The conspiracy theorists are firmly stuck at 1. and 2.

It’s much easier to believe that it’s all fake, overblown or some grand and very human plot than it is to accept a mindless virus is undermining a huge range of important aspects of all that we take for granted in normal life and a lot of things that make us happy.

There certainly is a denial.

You have many qualified doctors, microbiologists, virologists, epidemiologists around the world are advising us ....and then you have cunts who probably struggled with JC science suddenly know better.

eagle eye · 16-10-2020 02:51AM

ACitizenErased wrote:

Don't mention the Chinese!!! Asking for trouble

Did you ever buy a Chinese TV? I did and it was crap. Ever hear about Chinese ecigarette juices, apparently very bad for you. Lots of crappy things come out of China including this virus.

So it's not surprising that many people are not fans of China.

And I haven't even mentioned Tiananmen Square yet.

440Hertz · 16-10-2020 02:53AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1316895723003236355

Unfortunately, I think low and medium income countries, particularly if there’s dense, poor housing in cities (eg Brazilian favelas) are going to inevitably be hit very badly.

This virus is socially transmitted & if you can’t socially isolate, take time out of work, get access to reliable sanitation facilities like hand washing, showers, disinfectants etc etc, you’re going to struggle badly.

Add very meagre health systems to that and it’s going to be mess.

Much of the world is in that situation. As bad as this is in Europe or most developed countries, we do have a hell of a lot more resources to deal with it. We’re mostly in an extremely privileged position.

The US is risky because of politics and a weak public health system, rather than resources.

Also I honestly don’t see this being won by ICU resources. If the rates get even slightly out of control, even the most ICU-filled systems come under huge strain very quickly as nobody in their right mind would have planned a system with that scale of ICU resources, as in normal times they’d have been gathering dust.

It’s going to be won by solid public health measures, quality of social welfare and ability to support social distancing etc and ultimately by rapid access to drugs and vaccines.

Being able to keep everyone on board, have pragmatic, open, honest and trustworthy leadership is also a huge deal. Again, looking at the US & UK where you’ve lies and spin and turning a pandemic into a political mess - it really doesn’t bode well for the outcome.

Every government and political system is stumbling in the dark to a large degree on this. They’re not going to get everything right. However, once you begin to spin, lie, hide facts or waffle, that’s where trust dies.

mandrake04 · 16-10-2020 03:03AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Did you ever buy a Chinese TV? I did and it was crap. Ever hear about Chinese ecigarette juices, apparently very bad for you. Lots of crappy things come out of China including this virus.

So it's not surprising that many people are not fans of China.

And I haven't even mentioned Tiananmen Square yet.

There is a huge market for stuff like baby formula from the west, the Chinese stuff is not trusted by its own people.

I been to China a few times, I have even worked in hospitals there which I found to be of surprising standard, although some of the stuff they do to save a few cents is a bit eh unorthodox.

Its a country of extremes where you will see Ferraris and Lambos racing each other in the street and my collogues there admit that many people in the rural areas are starving.

440Hertz · 16-10-2020 03:11AM

The problem in China is one that you see in most authoritarian states. People are people and they will bend and bribe their way around rules if they can’t control or influence them through legitimate engagement by democracy. My view of it is that it’s an impressive place on many levels but it’s mired in a complete lack of transparency, which inevitably leads to severe corruption, people hiding errors and all sorts of problems.

I don’t really think the Chinese population ever was communist. It’s one of the most trade oriented societies on the planet and always has been. They had paper money, cheques, even complex consumer banking systems while the Romans were still wandering around with big gold coins. China is actually an incredible society in many ways, but its current system of government is more like a modernised medieval court than a modern government in the sense that that has evolved in Europe.

I think though when it comes to democracy, China will probably find some path towards something eventually. It’s not all that long ago, many of our EU counterparts weren’t democratic either. We’ve quite a few neighbours who’ve been full blown dictatorships and others that spent long periods as authoritarian states.

Things change and evolve and the one thing that does impress me which China is the people. They are incredibly innovative and a lot more open minded than the structures of state.

stephenjmcd · 16-10-2020 06:30AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

It would be a high number of admissions over a such a short space of time.
They had 9 positive patients in 2 days (which some people on here put down to testing in hospitals, as in current patients on a ward or turning up with a sprained ankle)
Anyway, it seems like a substantial increase none the less.

Multiple staff from medical and non medical roles off work isolating in GUH. Theres an issue there. One of my friends works there in a non medical role, his manager tested positive and the others on his team (think its 5) are all isolating now since Wednesday night & awaiting tests.

GazzaL · 16-10-2020 06:48AM

440Hertz wrote: »

I look at the social psychology of it as a bit like people are grieving loss of normality.

The stages of grief, in the simplified Kübler-Ross model are:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Depression
4. Acceptance

I think the issue is more that the majority of the population is at 3. and 4.

The conspiracy theorists are firmly stuck at 1. and 2.

It’s much easier to believe that it’s all fake, overblown or some grand and very human plot than it is to accept a mindless virus is undermining a huge range of important aspects of all that we take for granted in normal life and a lot of things that make us happy.

It’s even harder to accept that it’s currently something that’s beyond the control of modern sciences. Our sense of technological invincibility has been severely dented and I think perhaps the popularity of conspiracy theories is down to a very wounded human ego. We don’t like to feel weak, but we are, at least until we can find solutions to it.

I think perhaps the reason the US has gone the deepest down that rabbit hole is that it’s also the most cocky and sure of itself nation on the planet. It’s been a huge shock to the American psyche to feel that an invisible virus, that doesn’t care what your nationality is or how big your nuclear weapons are, is simply is doing them the same damage as it is everyone else. The sense of exceptionalism is gone and that really hurts, if your entire belief system was that you were invincible. You can’t buy or shoot your way out of it.

So it’s much easier to just pretend it’s not happening and hide in a conspiracy theory or imagine it’s a bio weapon etc etc etc.

And then you have the realists who jumped straight to stage 4 and accepted that we have to live with the virus like we live with every other illness, and that we can't afford to destroy our economy and our society because of it.

It is astounding that we're still talking about largely asymptomatic case numbers and varying degrees of lockdown when we should be talking about improving testing and tracing response times and effectiveness, and increasing hospital and ICU capacity.

Gruffalux · 16-10-2020 06:49AM

440Hertz wrote: »

I definitely can’t just keep going on like this for years. I’m stressed beyond stressed at the moment and I can keep an upbeat attitude for so long.

Sorry if it sounds depressing but I just find people are being utterly unrealistic.

When anyone suggests that they’re concerned because they’re vulnerable to this thing, they’re slapped down or told they’re expendable by people on this and other forums.

Try getting through this knowing you’ve a cardiac arrhythmia issue & high BP.

I work my ass off trying to ensure I stay fit, but I’m in the expendable class of those with underlying issues, who you all imagine are fat and lazy. I can’t make those issues go away. I wish I could but I can’t and they’re not lifestyle related.

This thread is not representative of the attitudes I encounter in real life re Covid. Almost everyone I meet in the world is concerned for older people and those with underlying conditions and they do not want to endanger others. Young men whose wives have asthma. Women in their 30s looking after their Ma. Site managers who do not want to see covid get in among the crews. These are the more normal attitudes. Don't mind the let it rip blather on here. Most people in real life value others.

GazzaL · 16-10-2020 06:52AM

Gruffalux wrote: »

This thread is not representative of the attitudes I encounter in real life re Covid. Almost everyone I meet in the world is concerned for older people and those with underlying conditions and they do not want to endanger others. Young men whose wives have asthma. Women in their 30s looking after their Ma. Site managers who do not want to see covid get in among the crews. These are the more normal attitudes. Don't mind the let it rip blather on here. Most people in real life value others.

There's actually very few people on Boards saying let it rip. Saying that we need to live with the virus is not the same as saying let it rip.

AlphaDelta1 · 16-10-2020 06:58AM

Gruffalux wrote: »

This thread is not representative of the attitudes I encounter in real life re Covid. Almost everyone I meet in the world is concerned for older people and those with underlying conditions and they do not want to endanger others. Young men whose wives have asthma. Women in their 30s looking after their Ma. Site managers who do not want to see covid get in among the crews. These are the more normal attitudes. Don't mind the let it rip blather on here. Most people in real life value others.

Great post. It's best to ignore the let it rip merchants as well as the it's all the governments and RTE's fault crew.

Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

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