FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

starfishxxo · 14-10-2020 05:56PM

kayleee123 wrote: »

Hi Guys, might be a stupid question but I was wondering if future employers could see attempts made / failed for FE1 exams? I just added constitutional to my exams for this sitting - I'm not overly sure of my chances but said i'll give it a go anyway and see how I get on with a month solid work on it. My other subjects should be fine (fingers crossed) but i'll drop constitutional again if it will show up that I failed as i'm nowhere near as prepared for it as the others but would good to get it out of the way at the same time so no harm giving it a go? Thanks

I would also be interested if anyone has knowledge/experience of this.

Upon completing FE1s does your transcript indicate all attempts made, or just confirm your having passed and marks achieved per subject?

In my experience employers havent been concerned with attempts, just that you have completed them or when you intend to complete

Dliodoir2021 · 14-10-2020 07:27PM

starfishxxo wrote: »

I would also be interested if anyone has knowledge/experience of this.

Upon completing FE1s does your transcript indicate all attempts made, or just confirm your having passed and marks achieved per subject?

In my experience employers havent been concerned with attempts, just that you have completed them or when you intend to complete

I think you show your results letters. Some of mine say 0% instead of absent which makes it look like I sat in to have a look at the paper when in reality I was at a family funeral!

IgoPAP · 14-10-2020 07:36PM

I accidentally applied to one exam that I had no intention of sitting and I cancelled it a month before the sitting and got a refund - you're telling me on my results letter it'll say 0% implying I failed it???!!!

Dliodoir2021 · 14-10-2020 07:51PM

IgoPAP wrote: »

I accidentally applied to one exam that I had no intention of sitting and I cancelled it a month before the sitting and got a refund - you're telling me on my results letter it'll say 0% implying I failed it???!!!

No, because another one said "absent" --- same circumstances! Crazy!

IgoPAP · 14-10-2020 07:54PM

Dliodoir2021 wrote: »

No, because another one said "absent" --- same circumstances! Crazy!

"Absent" sounds like I wasn't bothered to sit the exams so that's not good either. I hope it doesn't say that on my transcript

Aoibhin511 · 14-10-2020 07:55PM

IgoPAP wrote: »

"Absent" sounds like I wasn't bothered to sit the exams so that's not good either. I hope it doesn't say that on my transcript

I got put down as absent for Tort in March even though it didn't happen

Jeremiah25 · 14-10-2020 08:12PM

dobby896 wrote: »

Hey all, an important and very recent SC case of natural justice/fair procedures below.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/supreme-court/supreme-court-unconstitutional-law-governs-procedure-under-which-citizenship-can-be-revoked-1.4380723

Likely something like this could feature on the exam given that it's so recent and papers were presumably set time ago?

CoconutHeadMia · 14-10-2020 08:16PM

Is it possible that the law society are going to rely on students not using their own books and notes during the exams if they’re not going to invigilate? Or how did the kings inn work

law_struggles · 14-10-2020 08:23PM

For Tort, does anybody know how Vicarious Liability works in basic terms in relation to the different tests? Am I right in saying there is a course/scope test and a close connection test? thanks!

dobby896 · 14-10-2020 08:31PM

Jeremiah25 wrote: »

Likely something like this could feature on the exam given that it's so recent and papers were presumably set time ago?

Well not relating to that case specifically but a question around natural justice/fair procedures could appear in any event, so just looks good to be able to reference a recent case

phildub · 14-10-2020 08:32PM

law_struggles wrote: »

For Tort, does anybody know how Vicarious Liability works in basic terms in relation to the different tests? Am I right in saying there is a course/scope test and a close connection test? thanks!

copying and pasting stuff from my manual!
The existence of control by the Defendant over the wrongdoer is the most frequent justification for imposing vicarious liability. Wherever one party actually or potentially exercises control over the activities of the wrongdoer, it is possible that the controller will be deemed legally responsible for injury via vicarious liability. In this way the categories of relationships within which vicarious liability may be imposed are not fixed and may exist outside the employment context. This was made clear by the SC in Moynihan v Moynihan (1975)

Vicarious liability is commonly imposed on employers for wrongs committed by their employees in the course or scope of their employment. There are a number of reasons why the Courts favour vicarious liability in the employment context, such as the fact that the employer benefits from the acts of the employee and therefore should be responsible for harm arising from those acts, the employer can take protective measures to prevent employees causing injury/damage and employers can distribute their loss and are a better mark for damages. There are two distinct issues in this area of vicarious liability.
1. Does a necessary relationship of employer/employee exist? 2. Did wrongdoing by the employee occur within the course/scope of that relationship

shaunadennyham · 14-10-2020 08:33PM

CoconutHeadMia wrote: »

Is it possible that the law society are going to rely on students not using their own books and notes during the exams if they’re not going to invigilate? Or how did the kings inn work

No I think they’ll have it invigilated like they did with the august sitting. Kings inns was closed book and invigilated like the august fe1s as well

Hazel774 · 14-10-2020 08:39PM

shaunadennyham wrote: »

No I think they’ll have it invigilated like they did with the august sitting. Kings inns was closed book and invigilated like the august fe1s as well

I wish they would just tell us already! It's so frustrating not knowing with the exams starting in less than three weeks
Even worse that they're giving random bits of information to the people who manage to get through to them on the phone rather than just updating all candidates with the same information

FE1new · 14-10-2020 09:12PM

Hi All, I am really struggling with Criminal law does anyone have any tips on what can be left out or what should absolutely be covered? I am drowning now and panicking that the exams are so close. Really appreciate any guidance at all.

fe1time · 14-10-2020 09:41PM

Hi everyone, first time FE 1 sitter here and this whole online malarkey has got me a bit stressed! Any ideas on how best to prep for Contract and what to know inside out?

Lawlaw12 · 14-10-2020 09:58PM

FE1new wrote: »

Hi All, I am really struggling with Criminal law does anyone have any tips on what can be left out or what should absolutely be covered? I am drowning now and panicking that the exams are so close. Really appreciate any guidance at all.

Essential Topics:
Sexual Offences,
Homicide,
Actus Reus/Mens Rea,
Non-Fatal Offences against the Person,
Offences against Property,
Defences.

After that: Bail/Arrest/Detention, Presumption of Innocence, Minor v. Non-minor offences, Jurisdiction of the Courts etc...

For criminal there is a lot of mixing of topics so it is actually quite difficult to leave out whole topics, also there can be questions with 4 parts (a-d), so if you have left out the topic for one of those parts you're cutting down the marks you can get for that question. But because topics are mixed, it can actually mean that you end up writing very little about any given topic e.g. if it is a 4 part question you'll only be writing around a page for each part and this can include an introduction and advice to your client etc. so you can get away with only knowing the main cases.
Also, the examiner is a generous marker, so he will give you marks where he can!
If you can, try to learn a few main cases for every topic, and then for those important topics have a bit more detail

FE1new · 14-10-2020 10:00PM

Lawlaw12 wrote: »

Essential Topics:
Sexual Offences,
Homicide,
Actus Reus/Mens Rea,
Non-Fatal Offences against the Person,
Offences against Property,
Defences.

After that: Bail/Arrest/Detention, Presumption of Innocence, Minor v. Non-minor offences, Jurisdiction of the Courts etc...

For criminal there is a lot of mixing of topics so it is actually quite difficult to leave out whole topics, also there can be questions with 4 parts (a-d), so if you have left out the topic for one of those parts you're cutting down the marks you can get for that question. But because topics are mixed, it can actually mean that you end up writing very little about any given topic e.g. if it is a 4 part question you'll only be writing around a page for each part and this can include an introduction and advice to your client etc. so you can get away with only knowing the main cases.
Also, the examiner is a generous marker, so he will give you marks where he can!
If you can, try to learn a few main cases for every topic, and then for those important topics have a bit more detail

Thank you so much. It seems neverending

awsah · 14-10-2020 10:01PM

FE1new wrote: »

Hi All, I am really struggling with Criminal law does anyone have any tips on what can be left out or what should absolutely be covered? I am drowning now and panicking that the exams are so close. Really appreciate any guidance at all.

try not to get too stressed out, if its your only exam you have plenty of time, just read read read and practice exam questions. If you look at the exam questions you can see that some may cover 5 topics, you absolutely must cover ch on murder and manslaughter and sexual assault, this should get two questions out of the way, I would cover defenses as they can tie in as part of any question, NFOATP seems long and daunting but when you read enough times it should be ok.

key thing in problem questions is to identify the issues, if tom hits mary over the head and kills her don't talk about section 2 assault, you would be discussing the mens rea for murder/assault manslaughter.
don't say things like "duress is not a defense" if it is not in the question. you just want to get in and get out, 1. "this is the issues that arise, 2. this is the statute/case law,3. this is how the case law/statute applies to the question and 4.this is the conclusion.
The issues and the conclusion are the easiest marks, couple of sentences: the issues are a, b, c and in conclusion I would advise tom that he is liable to be charged with the murder of mary which could be lowered to assault manslaughter if it is shown he did not intend to kill or seriously harm her. (if you know the sentence you can put it here but like people have said it is not technically necessary).

I have not taken criminal yet so I really hope that helps and it wasn't a lot of gibberish.

FE1new · 14-10-2020 10:14PM

awsah wrote: »

try not to get too stressed out, if its your only exam you have plenty of time, just read read read and practice exam questions. If you look at the exam questions you can see that some may cover 5 topics, you absolutely must cover ch on murder and manslaughter and sexual assault, this should get two questions out of the way, I would cover defenses as they can tie in as part of any question, NFOATP seems long and daunting but when you read enough times it should be ok.

key thing in problem questions is to identify the issues, if tom hits mary over the head and kills her don't talk about section 2 assault, you would be discussing the mens rea for murder/assault manslaughter.
don't say things like "duress is not a defense" if it is not in the question. you just want to get in and get out, 1. "this is the issues that arise, 2. this is the statute/case law,3. this is how the case law/statute applies to the question and 4.this is the conclusion.
The issues and the conclusion are the easiest marks, couple of sentences: the issues are a, b, c and in conclusion I would advise tom that he is liable to be charged with the murder of mary which could be lowered to assault manslaughter if it is shown he did not intend to kill or seriously harm her. (if you know the sentence you can put it here but like people have said it is not technically necessary).

I have not taken criminal yet so I really hope that helps and it wasn't a lot of gibberish.

Not gibberish at all. Thank you so much!

Fe119 · 14-10-2020 10:23PM

I was under the impression that your final FE-1 results letter only detailed the exams you have passed?

awsah · 14-10-2020 10:26PM

FE1new wrote: »

Not gibberish at all. Thank you so much!

do you have exam questions with examiner reports? if you spend an hour or two just going through problem questions and writing out what you think the issues are and then checking the examiners report and if you are wrong the examiners report should help explain it.

I would have a look at complicity also as that could come up as part of a problem question!

nicolesd · 14-10-2020 11:17PM

anyone else waiting on results from a recheck?

FE1new · 15-10-2020 07:43AM

awsah wrote: »

do you have exam questions with examiner reports? if you spend an hour or two just going through problem questions and writing out what you think the issues are and then checking the examiners report and if you are wrong the examiners report should help explain it.

I would have a look at complicity also as that could come up as part of a problem question!

Yes I have the reports thank god. There is just so much in the questions. Really appreciate all the advice. Thank you

legallyginger · 15-10-2020 09:33AM

Only just seen I got an email saying my application was incomplete after panicking all week that I never recieved an email RE online exams !! Did anybody else hear back to hear if it was an error or not so worried and of course the phone is ringing out...

kayleee123 · 15-10-2020 09:54AM

Does anyone have the spring 2020 constitutional paper by any chance?

phildub · 15-10-2020 10:49AM

I have gone through the last few days of this thread looking for the posts that the law society put up about the November exams and they seem to have been deleted,

Law society,
if you are reading this it is now officially "end of next week" which means the "start of next week"is over and I am requesting that you update all FE1 registered candidates by email regarding whatever new information you can tell us regarding these exams.

In particular we need to know any software or hardware that may have to be arranged in advance in order to give us ample time to arrange for same. Could you also outline what the consequences are for people who have paid their fees but are unable to, for example, locate a web cam, download the zoom application, source a working microphone due to the limited amount of time that was afforded to us to source these items?

I think I speak collectively for all of us when I say that all Fe1 students would be very grateful if you could update us with any new information you might have before 6pm tomorrow evening, but sooner would be preferable.

All of us are professionals, we have either obtained a degree or we have worked in the legal industry for a number of years to reach this point. By sitting the FE1s we are demonstrating our commitment to being a member of the law society of ireland for decades to come. All we are asking is for some professional courtesy, the same of which has been afforded to our colleagues in Kings Inn, participants of the PPC courses and also including trainee accountants and leaving certificate students.

LawLearnin · 15-10-2020 10:59AM

Hey guys, feels a bit late in the day to be asking this with the exams (presumably!) around the corner, but would any of you mind sharing some tips on how you put your notes together?

I've passed four of the FE1s at this stage, but am having a terrible time preparing for the Criminal exam (am going to sit Equity too but I think I've a good grasp on what it's about). I can't figure out how to arrange the info for Criminal and it seems there's no end of cases, whereas some of the other subjects seemed to have a smaller core set of cases to draw on. Do you guys work from undergrad lecture notes, legislation, the syllabus texts or college cram notes etc to hone down the key info? And do you just then pick a couple of whatever cases seem relevant for each of the different elements you're focusing on for the exams?

Jeremiah25 · 15-10-2020 11:02AM

LawLearnin wrote: »

Hey guys, feels a bit late in the day to be asking this with the exams (presumably!) around the corner, but would any of you mind sharing some tips on how you put your notes together?

I've passed four of the FE1s at this stage, but am having a terrible time preparing for the Criminal exam (am going to sit Equity too but I think I've a good grasp on what it's about). I can't figure out how to arrange the info for Criminal and it seems there's no end of cases, whereas some of the other subjects seemed to have a smaller core set of cases to draw on. Do you guys work from undergrad lecture notes, legislation, the syllabus texts or college cram notes etc to hone down the key info? And do you just then pick a couple of whatever cases seem relevant for each of the different elements you're focusing on for the exams?

Mainly work off the manuals. I find past papers very useful also if you can get your hands on those, some of the questions are asked in a very repitive manner year on year.

Lovestolisten · 15-10-2020 11:16AM

I am getting really fed up with the whole thing, I have been emailing since August with the following issues

1- I am an access student so I have 4 sittings prepaid.
The online payment system is 'stuck' so I cannot fully process my application. 30 emails back and forth trying to explain that the system is frozen at 95% application complete and will not process.

2- My internet is 'unreliable', so I need to arrange somewhere to go to do the exam but I would like some confirmation on what systems we need to do the exam online, if i go to another location, what do I need to bring? Camera ? Speaker ? what sort of room can I use , how long do I need the room for ?

3 - the times of the exam ? If I get a room somewhere with internet what time do I need to go at? I am in a rural area so going somewhere with internet is a day trip.

I think it's pretty outrageous and an absolute example of how out of touch the Law Society is with real people.

There are students who don't have technology , internet connection, quiet homes or access to locations to sit online exams.

It shows how backward the Law Society has become. Back to the days where only those with substance could access the profession.
I feel strongly for those who are battling marginalisation to educate, empower and build careers and better futures for themselves , now they have to deal with this sort of snobbery.

The solution is to INFORM, keep the students in the loop, ask us our opinions, reach out and INCLUDE

lawgrad15 · 15-10-2020 11:23AM

LawLearnin wrote: »

Hey guys, feels a bit late in the day to be asking this with the exams (presumably!) around the corner, but would any of you mind sharing some tips on how you put your notes together?

I've passed four of the FE1s at this stage, but am having a terrible time preparing for the Criminal exam (am going to sit Equity too but I think I've a good grasp on what it's about). I can't figure out how to arrange the info for Criminal and it seems there's no end of cases, whereas some of the other subjects seemed to have a smaller core set of cases to draw on. Do you guys work from undergrad lecture notes, legislation, the syllabus texts or college cram notes etc to hone down the key info? And do you just then pick a couple of whatever cases seem relevant for each of the different elements you're focusing on for the exams?

I felt the same in March and it actually only came to me quite close to the exams.

For me, I did I think 3 essays in the exam. My opinion is that the essays tend to repeat themselves and there are only a limited amount of topics. So I would get a decent exam grid and look at the past questions. Rather than wasting time learning essays, go through the exam reports and note the main points/arguments you could make for each.

After that, for the problem questions, I would sit down and try and do them by topic e.g. homicide, sexual offences etc. However, I do know there is a huge amount of overlap. Make sure to print a copy of the examiner's reports as they are a huge asset to studying for criminal. They are really detailed.

In terms of the exam, make sure you can spot the issues in a problem question. Sometimes there will be quite a few issues in the question. By doing preparation questions, you will begin to spot the issues easily after a while.

Another really important point is re legislation. Make sure you know the main legislative provisions. Know also the actus reus and mens rea also.

In terms of case law, the amount I had varied on the topic. I hadn't a huge amount learned for topics like public offences but had way more for the likes of murder, manslaughter etc.

Also it's really worth knowing the defences really really well. They can be quite tricky so it's worth reading over those chapters a few times.

In conclusion, I think the best thing to do at this point is lots of exam questions. By doing similar questions, it will become easier for you to identify the issues and cases will become more familiar also. His reports are by far the most detailed out of all the examiners so do have a look at them while doing the questions.

Good luck with it. I thought mine was like a dogs dinner and got 70 in it. Really disliked criminal in uni. Felt it clicked with me 4 days before the exam so still lots of time left

FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

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