US Presidential Election 2020

Quin_Dub · 13-10-2020 02:52PM

spacecoyote wrote: »

That's nuts. I'd assumed that was just some crackpot maga types that did that. Didnt realise this was done by the actual Rep party

And despite the warning given to them by Officials , they are refusing to remove them.

They claim that it's simply "Ballot harvesting" which is legal in California.

Hector Barajas, a spokesman for the California Republican Party, said the party would continue to distribute the boxes, without adding any label identifying them explicitly as Republican ballot drops.

Mr. Barajas — who disclosed that Republicans were responsible for the boxes only after being bombarded by questions by reporters on Monday — said the party’s actions were legal because state law did not restrict “ballot harvesting,” a practice that allows a third party to collect voters’ completed ballots.

Manic Moran · 13-10-2020 02:53PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

There are those who actually believe that it was the extreme partisanship in Congress that led to an ACA that has such deficiencies as to make it vulnerable in the first place. A properly authored re-working of the Social Security Act and its Title XIX could have done much of the good intended by the ACA without introducing the interstate commerce objections. That whole heated war on Obamacare represents a sad and unhelpful decade on the Hill which, in more forward-thinking democracies (much less influenced by sectional-interest funding and lobbying), could have solved this without ever creating an Obamacare. The very term Obamacare has raised such vitriol among Republicans, stoked repeatedly by the likes of Mc Connell, that it never stood a chance of peaceful implementation regardless of its merits.

Quite possibly. Or perhaps the States could have done something on their own, like they're supposed to. Like Massachusetts did.

Regardless, the political failings in Congress should have no bearing on a legal analysis of what Congress passes. In fact, if Congress is forced by political squabbles to pass something less than ideal, it likely increases the chances of a successful legal challenge by the nature of things.

BonnieSituation · 13-10-2020 02:53PM

That ballot harvesting is "legal" at all is just mental.

Can someone tell me at all what are the good parts of the "system"?

stefanovich · 13-10-2020 02:58PM

Tell me how wrote: »

'Accuse others of that which you are guilty'

Time and time and time and time again this is coming to mind watching everything going on.

Has this not been the MO of the democrats for the last 4 years?

Foxtrol · 13-10-2020 03:01PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Why?

He's coming out strong and lucid, despite days of being a Covid victim.

If you think that no minds can be changed at this point, which is 3 weeks out from the e!ection, then I'm afraid you're suffering from a touch of the same hubris that preceeded Clinton's failure in 2016. As long as there are undecideds or persuadable decideds, then either/both candidates' performances can move the needle..

Lucid only based on the low bar he has set for himself.

We have to do this on a near daily basis but 2020 is not 2016:
- Undecideds/3rd party vote in the last poll prior to the election was ~9% in 2016 and at this point 3 weeks out it is ~6%.
- Polls also show people are also far more entrenched in their views now than 2016
- Far more people have already voted now than in 2016 so less can change their mind
- Biden has a much higher favorability and positives on key issues than Hillary did in 2016 (key when people are making last minute decisions)

Biggest thing of all that despite Trump's recovery, he hasn't changed his message at all. He has doubled down on his very unpopular approach to COVID, holding unmasked and packed rallies, now telling people he wants to go out into the crowds and kiss them. You might have a point if he pivoted to a more reflective and cautious tone post recovery but he is continuing with what has him trailing badly.

Tell me how · 13-10-2020 03:02PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Has this not been the MO of the democrats for the last 4 years?

No.

Tell me how · 13-10-2020 03:03PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And despite the warning given to them by Officials , they are refusing to remove them.

They claim that it's simply "Ballot harvesting" which is legal in California.

Surely Democrats should be going to each location and putting massive signs beside the box outlining that they are not official and will result in your ballot not being counted.

Gbear · 13-10-2020 03:05PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That ballot harvesting is "legal" at all is just mental.

Can someone tell me at all what are the good parts of the "system"?

Technically, ballot harvesting can also include your spouse handing in your mail-in ballot to a drop-box.

BonnieSituation · 13-10-2020 03:09PM

Gbear wrote: »

Technically, ballot harvesting can also include your spouse handing in your mail-in ballot to a drop-box.

Obvious point is obvious.

rossie1977 · 13-10-2020 03:13PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Has this not been the MO of the democrats for the last 4 years?

WTF..no

mcmoustache · 13-10-2020 03:15PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And despite the warning given to them by Officials , they are refusing to remove them.

They claim that it's simply "Ballot harvesting" which is legal in California.

Wouldn't the legality depend on whether the ballots in those boxes ultimately wind up in actual official ballot boxes?

i don't imagine that they can just dump the contents on election day.

Gbear · 13-10-2020 03:18PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Obvious point is obvious.

Not really. The intention behind so called "ballot harvesting" vs getting someone you know and trust to slip something in a drop box are obviously different. One is top down. One is bottom up.

It's the same with people trying to discount ballots that aren't set within the security envolope for mail-in ballots, as if it was equivalent to a fradulent or illigetimate ballot, when its purpose is to protect the identity of the person sending it, not to increase the security of the election.

All arguments made to change access to voting must be examined on the basis of the intention behind them. They cannot be taken on their own merits, because they are often part of a collection of measures, each of which seems innocuous, but combined are designed to disenfranchise people.

Quin_Dub · 13-10-2020 03:20PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

Wouldn't the legality depend on whether the ballots in those boxes ultimately wind up in actual official ballot boxes?

i don't imagine that they can just dump the contents on election day.

Well that is indeed the question and a key part of the issue the Election commission has with them being there.

Given that so far at least , the boxes are largely located in the "red" pockets in California you'd hope that the activities , whilst really weird and illegal sounding to us are with good intentions.

BonnieSituation · 13-10-2020 03:23PM

Gbear wrote: »

Not really. The intention behind so called "ballot harvesting" vs getting someone you know and trust to slip something in a drop box are obviously different. One is top down. One is bottom up.

It's the same with people trying to discount ballots that aren't set within the security envolope for mail-in ballots, as if it was equivalent to a fradulent or illigetimate ballot, when its purpose is to protect the identity of the person sending it, not to increase the security of the election.

All arguments made to change access to voting must be examined on the basis of the intention behind them. They cannot be taken on their own merits, because they are often part of a collection of measures, each of which seems innocuous, but combined are designed to disenfranchise people.

What do you think my issues are here? I don't think you comparing your spouse/partner dropping off a ballot to a secure official box comes to the same measure of ballot harvesting in the conventional sense.

Even at that, I wouldn't trust anyone with my ballot at all never mind herself. So, what I was getting at is the fact that there is any unverifiable system in place to collect ballots is just absolutely bizarre to me and another example of how frightfully awful the election and political system of the US is.

eire4 · 13-10-2020 05:01PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Here's a surprising figure for you..

How many people have registered as candidates for the 2020 Presidential Election?

4? , 5? - Nope.

It's 1218!!!!

There were about ~800 in 2016

That's just mental - I have no idea how many of them will actually appear on ballot papers in each state , but even if only a fraction of them actually made it , that still makes for a very long list of choices..

To be fair almost none will appear on the ballot. In Illinois there are 6 choices on the ballot for president as an example.

Quin_Dub · 13-10-2020 05:06PM

eire4 wrote: »

To be fair almost none will appear on the ballot. In Illinois there are 6 choices on the ballot for president as an example.

So 99%+ of them register with the Federal Election authorities , but then fail to meet the State level requirements for inclusion on the ballot in those States?

Still very weird.

eire4 · 13-10-2020 05:10PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

So 99%+ of them register with the Federal Election authorities , but then fail to meet the State level requirements for inclusion on the ballot in those States?

Still very weird.

That is correct yes. It is part of the myriad system of rules at local and state level that the Republican and Democratic party use to make sure that no other parties can emerge on a national level to actually challenge them for power.

stefanovich · 13-10-2020 05:33PM

Tell me how wrote: »

No.

rossie1977 wrote: »

WTF..no

democrats wrote:

Trump is a racist

Biden : “Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this."

Biden : "You got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”

Biden : "We should challenge students in these schools. We have this notion that somehow if you’re poor, you cannot do it. Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids."

Biden : "Well, I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black."

Biden : "They're saying, 'Jeez, the reason I was able to stay sequestered in my home is because some Black woman was able to stack the grocery shelf."

Just one example.

Imagine being so racist you cannot help yourself being accidentally racist all the time.

An Ciarraioch · 13-10-2020 05:48PM

If the Mountain State is any indicator, the national swing could be well fit the 10-12% predicted by recent polls:

https://twitter.com/USA_Polling/status/1316046684649074690

rossie1977 · 13-10-2020 08:39PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Imagine being so racist you cannot help yourself being accidentally racist all the time.

Yeah Biden is so racist he spent 8 years as vp to a black man and picked a black woman then as his vp... Trump has barely employed a single non white person in the white house

Trump has banned certain groups entering the US, called other groups all dogs and rapists. Told American born women to go back to their own countries not to mention all the things he did previous to being president like central park 5 or not renting to black tenants

MadYaker · 13-10-2020 09:08PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Biden : “Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this."

Biden : "You got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”

Biden : "We should challenge students in these schools. We have this notion that somehow if you’re poor, you cannot do it. Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids."

Biden : "Well, I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black."

Biden : "They're saying, 'Jeez, the reason I was able to stay sequestered in my home is because some Black woman was able to stack the grocery shelf."

Just one example.

Imagine being so racist you cannot help yourself being accidentally racist all the time.

First it was creepy joe, then it was sleepy joe and now it’s racist joe? :pac: Do you not see how ridiculous this is? You just posted a wall of text there isn’t even a link.

brooke 2 · 13-10-2020 09:18PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Lucid only based on the low bar he has set for himself.

We have to do this on a near daily basis but 2020 is not 2016:
- Undecideds/3rd party vote in the last poll prior to the election was ~9% in 2016 and at this point 3 weeks out it is ~6%.
- Polls also show people are also far more entrenched in their views now than 2016
- Far more people have already voted now than in 2016 so less can change their mind
- Biden has a much higher favorability and positives on key issues than Hillary did in 2016 (key when people are making last minute decisions)

Biggest thing of all that despite Trump's recovery, he hasn't changed his message at all. He has doubled down on his very unpopular approach to COVID, holding unmasked and packed rallies, now telling people he wants to go out into the crowds and kiss them. You might have a point if he pivoted to a more reflective and cautious tone post recovery but he is continuing with what has him trailing badly.

From what I saw, he sounded like a deranged madman.

Looked like he was on seriously powerful drugs.

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-10-2020 09:18PM

MadYaker wrote: »

First it was creepy joe, then it was sleepy joe and now it’s racist joe? :pac: Do you not see how ridiculous this is? You just posted a wall of text there isn’t even a link.

Desperate times call for Desperate measures.

Seeing more and more of this along with obviously edited video clips being posted.

salmocab · 13-10-2020 09:30PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Desperate times call for Desperate measures.

Seeing more and more of this along with obviously edited video clips being posted.

I might be missing something but the first one doesn’t come across as racist anyway, actually the opposite.
A sentence with no context, this is where things are now.

Itssoeasy · 13-10-2020 10:34PM

So it seems early voting is through the roof compared to four years ago and for states that release numbers by party the democrats are voting more in early voting than republicans so far. I know there are worries there may not be a result on “election night”(wasn’t one in 2004 btw) but I don’t know as if early voting is this brisk with three weeks to go and some states being able to count mail in ballots before Election Day we may if not have a full picture there will be a bloody good idea on November 3rd.

Water John · 13-10-2020 10:40PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So it seems early voting is through the roof compared to four years ago and for states that release numbers by party the democrats are voting more in early voting than republicans so far. I know there are worries there may not be a result on “election night”(wasn’t one in 2004 btw) but I don’t know as if early voting is this brisk with three weeks to go and some states being able to count mail in ballots before Election Day we may if not have a full picture there will be a bloody good idea on November 3rd.

Listening to some early voters waiting in the lines, they want to vote in person and because of what Trump has been saying don't want to rely on mail in ballot.

The counts in the swing states are what matter. AFAIK Florida cannot even start opening the mail in ballots until election day.

Itssoeasy · 13-10-2020 10:55PM

Water John wrote: »

Listening to some early voters waiting in the lines, they want to vote in person and because of what Trump has been saying don't want to rely on mail in ballot.

The counts in the swing states are what matter. AFAIK Florida cannot even start opening the mail in ballots until election day.

So trump ranting about mail in ballots may come back to bite him then if I understand what you’re saying.

Until Election Day ? So they can count them on Election Day as the in person voting in whatever level that will happen at is going on.

Foxtrol · 13-10-2020 10:58PM

Water John wrote: »

Listening to some early voters waiting in the lines, they want to vote in person and because of what Trump has been saying don't want to rely on mail in ballot.

The counts in the swing states are what matter. AFAIK Florida cannot even start opening the mail in ballots until election day.

Florida is unlikely to be a big issue with mail in voting, due to them voting that way quite often already with their elderly population. The places more likely to have issues are Michigan, Wisconsin, and especially Pennsylvania, with the ridiculous naked ballot issue.

Water John · 13-10-2020 10:59PM

Actually don't know when they can start opening the outside envelopes and verifying them, all I know is, they can't even do that until Election Day.

L1011 · 14-10-2020 09:48AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

especially Pennsylvania, with the ridiculous naked ballot issue.

This seems to be quite similar to how mail-in voting for the Seanad is done here, two envelope system. Its a pain in the hole for a few thousand votes on a college panel and loads of spoils happen due to it.

US Presidential Election 2020

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