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Irish Archbishops call for Catholics to be allowed to attend Mass

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    #62
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    C of I have vergers Catholic Church have lay people on the door welcoming people, stick them on the door, when you hit your capacity, close the doors...... Problem solved.


    Are the doors wide enough to do this without the person on the door potentially coming within 2m of one of the customers?


    If a customer does come within 2m of some of the staff will that mass be cancelled or will it be put down to a mistake and ignored, until everything slips and no rules are being enforced?


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    #63
    trixi001
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭trixi001


    I also don't agree with cancelling mass

    On the day the pubs reopened - I was in a rural pub in Donegal, and got chatting (from a distance) to a man, a farmer who lives on his own, his contact with people pre covid was mass everyday and a drink in the local rural pub at the weekend.

    Now he sees no-one, Mass gives a great sense of community especially in rural areas, and even a friendly wave across a chapel will be enough to make a difference to someones life.

    The worshipping side of it also important, especially have people have lost loved ones, lost businesses, are worried about mental health, people get comfort from mass.
    I am not overly religious but I know I do. Its an hour every week, away from technology, a chance to switch off and think about God, and about your own life.


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    #64
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    Churches have entire rows closed off and social distancing rules well applied. If 25 kids can be put in a room for six hours a day, mass could go ahead for 30minutes following guidelines without infections.


    School has been accepted as dangerous but necessary, mass is dangerous (and thats even without considering the priest touching you) and unnecessary. The necessary vs unnecessary is the important part not the one is safe but the other isn't.


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    #65
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    I think it's safe to say, given the RC cult's history of contempt towards the safety and well being of people in this country, the idea of trusting them is an insult to their victims.


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    #66
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    GarIT wrote: »
    Are the doors wide enough to do this without the person on the door potentially coming within 2m of one of the customers?


    If a customer does come within 2m of some of the staff will that mass be cancelled or will it be put down to a mistake and ignored, until everything slips and no rules are being enforced?

    That depends on the church, but most would have doors wide enough to accommodate social distancing, with single file entry.

    As for the second part, I'm not sure what you're asking. Do they shut down tesco every time someone reaches over someone else for a packet of rashers?


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    #67
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    That depends on the church, but most would have doors wide enough to accommodate social distancing, with single file entry.

    As for the second part, I'm not sure what you're asking. Do they shut down tesco every time someone reaches over someone else for a packet of rashers?


    Shopping is essential it will remain open anyway.


    The churchs are saying they can be an exception and will follow the other guidelines better than anyone else if they are allowed open. So what happens if they open and fail to follow the guidelines?


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    #68
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    GarIT wrote: »
    Shopping is essential it will remain open anyway.


    The churchs are saying they can be an exception and will follow the other guidelines better than anyone else if they are allowed open. So what happens if they open and fail to follow the guidelines?

    They get shut again........ But they were open and were following the guidelines before everything went to level 3


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    #69
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    Churches have entire rows closed off and social distancing rules well applied. If 25 kids can be put in a room for six hours a day, mass could go ahead for 30minutes following guidelines without infections.

    Education is essential. The comparison being made by some is just nonsense.


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    #70
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,387 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    John Hutton wrote: »
    There is a misunderstanding of what the Mass is I think.

    When a Catholic attends Mass he is not there as an idle spectator watching the priest do his thing. Rather, he, the massgoer, is a fundamental part of the Mass, and shares in it.

    If you watch it on the TV, you are reduced to a spectator (which still has some value but it's much different).

    What an absolute cop out.
    You can't have mass on a webcam but you can on TV. Why?
    I'll tell you why. Because people have to search out a webcam show and it will only reach the already indoctrinated where as mass on the national broadcaster is propaganda spread weekly to all the public .

    I mean ffs sake every day at 6 we send out a reminder to all the beaten and raped victims of the church in this country via the national broadcaster


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    #71
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    What an absolute cop out.
    You can't have mass on a webcam but you can on TV. Why?
    I'll tell you why. Because people have to search out a webcam show and it will only reach the already indoctrinated where as mass on the national broadcaster is propaganda spread weekly to all the public .

    I mean ffs sake every day at 6 we send out a reminder to all the beaten and raped victims of the church in this country via the national broadcaster

    Who says you can't have mass on a webcam?


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    #72
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    They get shut again........ But they were open and were following the guidelines before everything went to level 3


    I don't trust them to make the decision to shut, or ban a parisioner if someone breaks the 2m rule. They will just excuse it as a mistake and keep going. It was mistakes being excused and rules being bent that brought us from Level 2 to 3, not necessarily in the church.


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    #73
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,387 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    Who says you can't have mass on a webcam?

    The bishops it seems. And ya I know bla bla you can have mass but not the sacraments but that's like saying you can play a game of soccer with no ball


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    #74
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,322 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    Well why can't you? There's absolutely nothing stopping you from contacting your local councillors or tds and getting an answer as to why restrictions apply to you.

    The church are a group, just like ryanair or press up group or the lva, who want answers as to why they are under the restrictions they are under.

    Nothing wrong with that.

    Because I am no more special than the Catholic church

    We are all in this - we are all subject to the restrictions in place. There are certain relaxations for the likes of schools, but so what? That is the way they have been set up. There are actually no "special cases" - the restrictions were written facilitating in-classroom education and other exceptions relating to the likes of essential activities. We all should be observing them and not stirring things by pleading we are "special"


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    #75
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    I know of 1 case that was transmitted in a local church.

    There are others related to churches world wide.
    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6920e2.htm

    The guidelines are clear. Social distance. Don't gather in large groups. Cocoon the vulnerable.

    How is this still difficult to understand.


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    #76
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    The bishops it seems. And ya I know bla bla you can have mass but not the sacraments but that's like saying you can play a game of soccer with no ball

    Well yeah, the big sticking point is communion/eucharist, unfortunately there are a few stuck in their ways people (both clergy and parishioners) who are adament that it has to be done the traditional way, rather than pre blessing individually packed communion wafers.......


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    #77
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    Beasty wrote: »
    Because I am no more special than the Catholic church

    We are all in this - we are all subject to the restrictions in place. There are certain relaxations for the likes of schools, but so what? That is the way they have been set up. There are actually no "special cases" - the restrictions were written facilitating in-classroom education and other exceptions relating to the likes of essential activities. We all should be observing them and not stirring things by pleading we are "special"

    But there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking why, which is what they're doing...... They're not running hedge masses or back alley baptisms, they just want an explanation as to why they're not given an exception when the church has been in other countries.

    It's a question they're allowed ask, what they do with the answer is a different matter.


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    #78
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,215 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Education is essential. The comparison being made by some is just nonsense.

    Then you must also agree that County players GAA should not be training, or all sports activities must be stopped.

    Also its not nonsense. The virus doesnt think education is essential, its a virus, so its either the same rules for all of us, or all these restrictions are just nonsense.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #79
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    What an absolute cop out.
    You can't have mass on a webcam but you can on TV. Why?
    I'll tell you why. Because people have to search out a webcam show and it will only reach the already indoctrinated where as mass on the national broadcaster is propaganda spread weekly to all the public .

    I mean ffs sake every day at 6 we send out a reminder to all the beaten and raped victims of the church in this country via the national broadcaster
    You are not understanding what I am saying.

    Nearly every church broadcasts via webcam. The point I am making is that when you watch it on TV or webcam you are "watching" it, when you attend you are "taking part, and part of" it, there is a difference, certainly theologically as I've explained, and provided a link to where it is discussed in depth.

    You should try turning off RTE and not watching it, I've been doing that for years. I don't really care what RTE do.


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    #80
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    GarIT wrote: »
    What makes it worse is that Irish collection plate money was used to fund the top lawyers for Cardinal Pell making the argument that the young boys were sexually taunting him and that it wasn't his fault he did it, the little boy had a nice bum and that made him do it so it was the childs fault.



    They can't be trusted for anytrhing else, they can't be trusted for this.
    What are you on about? This is completely untrue about Cardinal Pell.


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    #81
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    Then you must also agree that County players GAA should not be training, or all sports activities must be stopped.

    Also its not nonsense. The virus doesnt think education is essential, its a virus, so its either the same rules for all of us, or all these restrictions are just nonsense.

    I thought this wouldn't need explaining. But the whole point is that we need to manage risk whilst ensuring there is a functioning economy and country. So schools remain open and indoors, but indoor dining does not etc. Everyone is fully aware that the virus doesn't have an awareness or is intelligent. Jesus Christ.

    I agree with you about sport by the way.


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    #82
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,387 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    But there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking why, which is what they're doing...... They're not running hedge masses or back alley baptisms, they just want an explanation as to why they're not given an exception when the church has been in other countries.

    It's a question they're allowed ask, what they do with the answer is a different matter.

    Nothing wrong with asking why? Tell that to every woman, socialist or atheist who ever dared to ask the church why in the history of this state.

    The church in this country have had enough exceptions


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    #83
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,215 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    I thought this wouldn't need explaining. But the whole point is that we need to manage risk whilst ensuring there is a functioning economy and country. So schools remain open and indoors, but indoor dining does not etc. Everyone is fully aware that the virus doesn't have an awareness or is intelligent. Jesus Christ.

    I agree with you about sport by the way.

    We are not managing a functioning economy. We cannot keep writing IOUs. So this managing risk thing is either for all or none. Churches are far bigger than most classrooms or even shops, plenty of space to fit 20 well separated individuals in there.

    If a person can still go to golden discs, Elvery sports, Off License, then i see no problem with a small number of socially distanced, masked and visored people going to a church for 30 minutes on a sunday. Wouldnt be going myself, but if people can take responsibility for their action and common sense otherwise everything will need to lockdown again or level 5, circuit breaker or whatever they want to call it this time.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #84
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,322 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    But there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking why, which is what they're doing...... They're not running hedge masses or back alley baptisms, they just want an explanation as to why they're not given an exception when the church has been in other countries.

    It's a question they're allowed ask, what they do with the answer is a different matter.

    Are they asking why or petitioning for a change? It appears the latter to me, because they think they are special


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    #85
    topmanamillion
    Registered Users Posts: 3,294 ✭✭✭topmanamillion


    JayZeus wrote: »
    The cynical may also wonder if there are concerns regarding reduced collections amongst those who count the beans.

    This is absolutely their primary concern. It's much easier to guilt someone into throwing a tenner into a collection basket if it's popped under their nose compared to them sitting at home.
    Most rural churches are big old creaking century old buildings with big overheads.
    The collection at mass must be a big percentage of their income so Covid is hitting them hard in the pocket and it's starting to sting.


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    #86
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,215 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Just to add if we are talking about another mini lockdown, level 5 or circuit breaker, then they should not open, nothing should be open.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #87
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    Just to add if we are talking about another mini lockdown, level 5 or circuit breaker, then they should not open, nothing should be open.
    Yes I agree completely. That is how it has worked around the world, even in Italy !


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    #88
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,387 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    John Hutton wrote: »
    You are not understanding what I am saying.

    Nearly every church broadcasts via webcam. The point I am making is that when you watch it on TV or webcam you are "watching" it, when you attend you are "taking part, and part of" it, there is a difference, certainly theologically as I've explained, and provided a link to where it is discussed in depth.

    You should try turning off RTE and not watching it, I've been doing that for years. I don't really care what RTE do.

    So what is the point of watching it. To critique the priests performance, to check out the new robes?
    And what happens if a catholic is stuck far from a church and can't attend or someone is bedridden and can't go. Is it off to hell for them or does god make exceptions


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    #89
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,692 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    Beasty wrote: »
    Are they asking why or petitioning for a change? It appears the latter to me, because they think they are special

    Is it any different to the lva asking for a meeting to find out why pubs in Dublin were treated differently? Or ryanair taking the government to court?

    You can't give out about them being a business and then be annoyed that they're acting on business interests.....


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    #90
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Beasty wrote: »
    Are they asking why or petitioning for a change? It appears the latter to me, because they think they are special
    Or, that they think they have been treated unfairly, or inconsistently, in comparison to others. This does not mean they think they are above everyone else.


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    #91
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Or, that they think they have been treated unfairly, or inconsistently, in comparison to others. This does not mean they think they are above everyone else.

    How are they being treated unfairly?


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