Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

BoatMad · 05-10-2020 07:59PM

Imagine if the original plan was followed and we could now have zero restrictions and me an Asthmatic since I was 6 months old could actually go back to my business? Imagine normality if only people could allow a gov. plan to go through the end?

Society goes to certain lengths to protect its vulnerable , and that includes asthmatics , however your rights stop at my nose , society does not bend over backwards to insulate you or others. As a result every year a proportion will die.

That’s the social contract we call life and we up till now accepted a certain loss of life because we cannot guarantee life to everyone Humans think up new ways to kill themselves every day.

BoatMad · 05-10-2020 08:00PM

GarIT wrote: »

There's also the option of lockdown Sundays. Close everything, including food shops, execpt emergency services. Fine anyone caught outside their property without it being an emergency.

Gives people an extra day to realise they have it beofre the chance of spreading it in work on Monday. People can rest at home on a Sunday and socialise the rest of the week a bit easier if they need to socialise. It reduces the spread by up to 1/7th. Gives more time for test results to come back.

It's also the perfect time to switch to 4 day work weeks, and 4 day school weeks. Work capped at 36 hours per week. That would reduce the spread in workplaces and schools up to 20%.

Of course the 200 percent rise in income tax to fund this paradise would not be even noticed !!!!!!

Equally those that work 5 over 7 might also not agree with u

Vieira82 · 05-10-2020 08:01PM

BoatMad wrote: »

So how much personal freedoms would u remove

The army brought in , police baton charges

Thank goodness CIE scrapped all their cattle wagons a good few years ago

Those that would trade freedom for a little security , deserve neither

Isn't it great to use a quote out of context to try and prove a point?

https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/14/how-the-world-butchered-benjamin-franklins-quote-on-liberty-vs-security/

https://www.hoover.org/research/what-benjamin-franklin-really-said

https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century?t=1601924284208

eleventh · 05-10-2020 08:03PM

GarIT wrote:

And no it's not 12 months of lockdown. 2 months of level 5 could get us to 0 cases.

0 cases is not possible. Even if in theory you got there, you'd have new cases popping up days later. Tests are not reliable either. They have covered all bases saying there's no such thing as immunity, you can be 're infected' shortly after testing negative or recovering from the illness. Same thing with vaccines. They'll want people vaccinating not just once but on a regular basis.

GarIT · 05-10-2020 08:03PM

BoatMad wrote: »

Of course the 200 percent rise in income tax to fund this paradise would not be even noticed !!!!!!

Why would income tax need to rise? For Sundays locked down or one less working day? Studies done by Microsoft have found productivity goes up with a 4 day working week because people are less tired.

BoatMad · 05-10-2020 08:03PM

Vieira82 wrote: »

Isn't it great to use a quote out of context to try and prove a point?

https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/14/how-the-world-butchered-benjamin-franklins-quote-on-liberty-vs-security/

https://www.hoover.org/research/what-benjamin-franklin-really-said

https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century?t=1601924284208

Our liberty and personal freedoms were hard fought in blood over centuries. power nuts Arby’s going to be allowed overturn this for an illusion of a solution

Vieira82 · 05-10-2020 08:04PM

BoatMad wrote: »

Society goes to certain lengths to protect its vulnerable , and that includes asthmatics , however your rights stop at my nose , society does not bend over backwards to insulate you or others. As a result every year a proportion will die.

That’s the social contract we call life and we up till now accepted a certain loss of life because we cannot guarantee life to everyone Humans think up new ways to kill themselves every day.

Well then, between both of us I genuinely hope you die first then

On a serious note. You continue to fail to want to understand. What I meant was, this being resolved AND NO restrictions at all so we could ALL go back to some normality not just me. So case in point I was advocating for you to be fully free and not now months after having to be here on a forum screaming about your liberty.

Does that make sense?

GarIT · 05-10-2020 08:05PM

BoatMad wrote: »

Of course the 200 percent rise in income tax to fund this paradise would not be even noticed !!!!!!

Equally those that work 5 over 7 might also not agree with u

Someone who works 5 over 7 would work 4 over 7, people working 8 over 14 would be capped at 9 hour shifts to stay under 36 hours. The civil service was actually investigating this before working from home became a thing.

BoatMad · 05-10-2020 08:07PM

eleventh wrote: »

0 cases is not possible. Even if in theory you got there, you'd have new cases popping up days later. Tests are not reliable either. They have covered all bases saying there's no such thing as immunity, you can be "re infected" shortly after testing negative and/or recovering from the illness. Same thing with vaccines. They'll want people vaccinating not just once but on a regular basis.

The “ zero Covid “ is a awful idea , we do not attempt that on virtually anything else. Even smallpox was never eradicated

It’s a dangerous childlike illusion , and a bit like the notion of an Aryan race allowed the Germans to inflict countless horrors on attempting to bring a “ notion “ to pass

We live in a sea of pathogens

mgbgt1978 · 05-10-2020 08:08PM

GarIT wrote: »

Why would income tax need to rise? For Sundays locked down or one less working day? Studies done by Microsoft have found productivity goes up with a 4 day working week because people are less tired.

Microsoft are obviously not a 'self-employed' entity then.....:rolleyes:

GarIT · 05-10-2020 08:08PM

eleventh wrote: »

0 cases is not possible. Even if in theory you got there, you'd have new cases popping up days later. Tests are not reliable either. They have covered all bases saying there's no such thing as immunity, you can be 're infected' shortly after testing negative or recovering from the illness. Same thing with vaccines. They'll want people vaccinating not just once but on a regular basis.

New Zeeland has 1 case in the last 24 hours and 40 active cases total. Lock down those areas, that is what they are doing and the economic impact has been much less for them than us.

As I said we wouldn't need to physically close the border as some claim, just make it undesirable to cross. A few still might but it won't matter much.

Vieira82 · 05-10-2020 08:10PM

BoatMad wrote: »

Our liberty and personal freedoms were hard fought in blood over centuries. power nuts Arby’s going to be allowed overturn this for an illusion of a solution

Case in point if you had any interest of even looking at what I linked you'd see that quote in context is not about liberty but about money which funny enough is the only major reason for anyone averse to a lockdown. It hardly has anything to do with liberties but people worried about maintaining their same levels of income.

"tHe MoNeY mUsT fLoW"

And again, look at countries that locked down for a few weeks not even a month and they re-openned their economies and societies easily. Plenty of examples if you look around and no one died of lack of liberties

Vieira82 · 05-10-2020 08:13PM

GarIT wrote: »

New Zeeland has 1 case in the last 24 hours and 40n cases total. Lock down those areas, that is what they are doing and the economic impact has been much less for them than us.

As I said we wouldn't need to physically close the border as some claim, just make it undesirable to cross. A few still might but it won't matter much.

fully agree with this, though how would you make the border undesirable? In Portugal with a long border with only one country we literally had police checkpoints in every road and huge blocks of cement in them a few months ago.

GarIT · 05-10-2020 08:13PM

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Microsoft are obviously not a 'self-employed' entity then.....:rolleyes:

In that case though, self employed people typically pay some tax at the 40% rate, +usc etc, for so 20% less work they would be losing 10% of the money. It's a better alternative to a full lockdown. If they are under the higher rate of tax and have dependants they can avail of FIS, most people are somewhat covered, and for the rest a 4 day week long term is better than a 5 day week for 3 months followed by a month of no work.

thebaz · 05-10-2020 08:13PM

Aoart from the schools going back , ther is much more testing going on than in Spring , so of course cases will rise - What should be being reported is number of fatalities caused by Covid and how many new ICU patients ther are- and why does it need to be reported every day, people awaiting the 6 o'clock results , like football results, tell the pubic when a real serious crisis happens , like hospitals and ICU becoming overcrowded. last Spring it was easy to understand as we were trying to flatten the curve to save the health service , that made sense. Since then we thankfully have not seen the carnage we were witnessing of this new virus in North Italy and Wuhan and New York. Even in 3rd world counntrys ther has been no real reportage of the shocking scenes we saw back in Spring, and thats in the internet age where everything worldwide is shown.

GarIT · 05-10-2020 08:15PM

Vieira82 wrote: »

fully agree with this, though how would you make the border undesirable? In Portugal with a long border with only one country we literally had police checkpoints in every road and huge blocks of cement in them a few months ago.

Fines mostly, or prison if really necessary. And early this year Revenue hired 600 staff for policing the border in a hard Brexit, these could be put to work. You can't cover every crossing, I agree with people saying it's not realistic but it can be made undesirable.

Tenzor07 · 05-10-2020 08:16PM

GarIT wrote: »

New Zeeland has 1 case in the last 24 hours and 40n cases total. Lock down those areas, that is what they are doing and the economic impact has been much less for them than us.
As I said we wouldn't need to physically close the border as some claim, just make it undesirable to cross. A few still might but it won't matter much.

Oh not the New Zealand thing again..... always brought up... Lock us down, New Zealand ... we should have 0 covid... New Zealand..... We can fully open up in a month... New Zealand .... They're an Island too like us ... New Zealand :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe Build the wall! Build the wall! .... Lock her.... oh wait different story!

Ginger n Lemon · 05-10-2020 08:17PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Oh not the New Zealand thing again..... always brought up... Lock us down, New Zealand ... we should have 0 covid... New Zealand..... We can fully open up in a month... New Zealand .... They're an Island too like us ... New Zealand :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe Build the wall! Build the wall! .... Lock her.... oh wait different story!

Funny that. New Zealand does 4 times more tests per week than Ireland. Identical population size.

Can someone explain this one to me? They assume they have no covid and dont bother testing much? Or HSE has a lot of covid tests they need to "utilize" ?

mgbgt1978 · 05-10-2020 08:17PM

GarIT wrote: »

In that case though, self employed people typically pay some tax at the 40% rate, +usc etc, for so 20% less work they would be losing 10% of the money. It's a better alternative to a full lockdown. If they are under the higher rate of tax and have dependants they can avail of FIS, most people are somewhat covered, and for the rest a 4 day week long term is better than a 5 day week for 3 months followed by a month of no work.

The majority of self-employed people are not on the higher Tax Rate.

Self-employed persons are not entitled to FIS.
As that seems to be the level of knowledge I am dealing with , goodbye

GarIT · 05-10-2020 08:20PM

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

The majority of self-employed people are not on the higher Tax Rate.

Self-employed persons are not entitled to FIS.
As that seems to be the level of knowledge I am dealing with , goodbye

Didn't know FIS wasn't available to self employed, the vast majority of self employed people are on the higher tax rate. I can't share the proof, but it is the case.

Vieira82 · 05-10-2020 08:22PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Oh not the New Zealand thing again..... always brought up... Lock us down, New Zealand ... we should have 0 covid... New Zealand..... We can fully open up in a month... New Zealand .... They're an Island too like us ... New Zealand :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe Build the wall! Build the wall! .... Lock her.... oh wait different story!

Ok let's not talk about NZ. Let's talk about Vietnam. 95 Million people

1097 cases total

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/viet-nam/

This is from 7 hours ago: https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/french-expert-vietnam-s-new-coronavirus-case-4172086.html

But most importantly they still got hit economically:

https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/vietnam-s-economic-hopes-fade-as-covid-19-takes-away-business-/5600761.html

Tenzor07 · 05-10-2020 08:31PM

Vieira82 wrote: »

Ok let's not talk about NZ. Let's talk about Vietnam. 95 Million people
1097 cases total

Yeap, communist government used to cracking down hard on the population...very easy to crush any dissent into hard lockdowns... Something we're not used to in an open European democracy... I'm sure some here would like if we were more like the communists... Could probably get myself arrested for some of the posts on here.... Not a place you really want to live..

Oh, and 20 years experience of dealing with outbreaks of disease.... We don't have it... foot&mouth was about it

Immediate and fast shut down of borders in February/March... Yea we missed that bit... damn constitution and EU membership.. Maybe next time?

eleventh · 05-10-2020 08:31PM

The only numbers that should be publicised are 1.deaths 2.ICU.

So-called cases should not be counted, as in made public every day, because they're not reliable and not symptomatic. If they want to count cases, count those who are hospitalised only.

Donald Trump · 05-10-2020 08:32PM

BoatMad wrote: »

The “ zero Covid “ is a awful idea , we do not attempt that on virtually anything else. Even smallpox was never eradicated

It’s a dangerous childlike illusion , and a bit like the notion of an Aryan race allowed the Germans to inflict countless horrors on attempting to bring a “ notion “ to pass

We live in a sea of pathogens

How would you feel about a mandatory vaccine?

I have seem some angry anti-mask people ranting about why they shouldn't have to wear a mask because Covid isn't real and then also saying that nobody will make them take a vaccine for it if there is ever one.

I think that if people don't really care about catching it themselves, then maybe society as a whole could pay them to be infected and allow themselves to be monitored for a few weeks for scientific research. Perhaps even try some new medicines on them. We could pay them double their normal wage for the duration of the trials

GarIT · 05-10-2020 08:35PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Oh not the New Zealand thing again..... always brought up... Lock us down, New Zealand ... we should have 0 covid... New Zealand..... We can fully open up in a month... New Zealand .... They're an Island too like us ... New Zealand :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe Build the wall! Build the wall! .... Lock her.... oh wait different story!

Yeah, god forbid we try to learn from the most successful democratic country dealing with this and try to work out ways it could be adapted to suit us.

niallo27 · 05-10-2020 08:38PM

GarIT wrote: »

New Zeeland has 1 case in the last 24 hours and 40 active cases total. Lock down those areas, that is what they are doing and the economic impact has been much less for them than us.

As I said we wouldn't need to physically close the border as some claim, just make it undesirable to cross. A few still might but it won't matter much.

New Zealand is facing its worst recessionsince the great depression. They are ****ed

Tenzor07 · 05-10-2020 08:38PM

GarIT wrote: »

Yeah, god forbid we try to learn from the most successful democratic country dealing with this and try to work out ways it could be adapted to suit us.

That's what NPHET should have done so...

GarIT · 05-10-2020 08:42PM

niallo27 wrote: »

New Zealand is facing its worst recessionsince the great depression. They are ****ed

5.5% contraction in 2020 and 5% growth in 2021 predicted on the 22nd of September seems a little bit better than we are doing. I don't think there is a way not to be affected by a global economic downturn.

The golden chold of this thread Sweeden is down 5.3% this year and estimated up only .9% next year.

Humilde · 05-10-2020 08:44PM

Well there we have it. The Government and NPHET decided last week to move us all to level three. They consulted their Behavioural Science sub group about how to convince the Irish sheeple to swallow it without proving that its necessary at all and were told, "tell them they're going to level 5 first and scare the sh1t out of them. Then tell them its only level three and your popularity will go through the roof. They'll love you". It's a win win. And so it was, that the Irish sheeple praised Leo and Simon to the high heavens for having saved them from level 5.

GarIT · 05-10-2020 08:45PM

Humilde wrote: »

Well there we have it. The Government and NPHET decided last week to move us all to level three. They consulted their Behavioural Science sub group about how to convince the Irish sheeple to swallow it without proving that its necessary at all and were told, "tell them they're going to level 5 first and scare the sh1t out of them. Then tell them its only level three and your popularity will go through the roof. They'll love you". It's a win win. And so it was, that the Irish sheeple praised Leo and Simon to the high heavens for having saved them from level 5.

From what I've seen they are getting a lot of **** from the public for ignoring the experts. only 30% were in favour of level 3 in the journals poll, 60% wanted 4 or higher. It could be split 30ish% each for 3 4 and 5, putting 4 as possibly the preferred option.

Have NPHET lost the attention of people?

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