Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

polesheep · 05-10-2020 11:46AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Now the insults.

Oh grow up and save your fan worship for the Khardasians or whatever nonsense turns you on.

05-10-2020 11:47AM

polesheep wrote: »

Yes. In any private company he would be sidelined.

In any company with a leader as the CEO, and a half decent board, he’d be listened to. It’s then up to them to decide what to do. Only an idiot wouldn’t listen

GazzaL · 05-10-2020 11:47AM

**** NPHET. The amount of people running around panicking today is unbelievable.

Francie Barrett · 05-10-2020 11:48AM

TexasTornado wrote: »

The same people asking for a crack down on the house party idiots weeks ago and proper enforcement of regulations have been proven correct. Those people said it was that or we'd all suffer long term with businesses going to the wall as stricter levels are brought back.

It's not a "police state" or some other loon bag phrase to have these measures enforced, its proper responsible governance.

This exactly. Most of us can follow the recommended measures without too much disruption to our daily lives. There is however a small but very vocal minority of people out there who are doing whatever they please. You've seen first hand evidence how Trump and his inner circle held nothing but contempt for any sort of measures and now the virus has engulfed that group of people. If people want to engage in that sort of reckless behaviour that puts other people at risk, there is literally nothing stopping them right now.

Blondini · 05-10-2020 11:49AM

150 in hospital.
23 in ICU.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

Non solum non ambulabit · 05-10-2020 11:49AM

rob316 wrote: »

Level 4 is pretty bad too, it closes pretty much everything again. It'll be level 3 with heavy restrictions and household visits is my guess.

Hopefully

sideswipe · 05-10-2020 11:49AM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I found a nice official data source if anyone's interested in playing around with it.

Here's our hospitalisations on a log graph. We're about 30 days away from having the same levels we had at the peak back in April if things continue like this.

I would be interested to see one from the same period over the last few years. Our health care system is at breaking point every year. This year is obviously different because-

1. There is a worldwide pandemic and people are getting ill.

2. We locked down the country to flatten the curve and help prepare the health service. Only now it seems the health service is no better prepared than it was in Feb/Mar.

I know it's not possible to head to mattress Mick's to pick up extra ICU beds but it does feel like the opportunity to reinforce the health service has been lost over the relative calm of summer.

froog · 05-10-2020 11:50AM

seamus wrote: »

Nobody is saying that. But clearly somebody has made a balls of something here.

Mid-last week;

"Things aren't going great, we'll probably look at moving other counties to higher levels"

"There are encouraging signs from Dublin"

"We're not just looking at case numbers, we're looking at other indicators before making decisions"

After three days of worsening numbers, and on the day that Dr. Holohan returns:

"LOCK. DOWN. EVERYTHING".

So there's something fvcky going on here.

And if it is the case, as another poster has alluded to, that Dr. Holohan took himself off sabbatical so that he could take over and demand a new lockdown, then his judgement needs to be called into question, as well as the entire point of having NPHET there at all.

to be fair it was clear to me from the last few weeks of press conferences that NPHET (at least some of them) were extremely worried and the sub text was that they were urging more action from the government. we know the government watered stuff down before, is it crazy to think they have been calling for more restrictions for weeks now behind closed doors and being ignored by the tangled web of committees and politicians from three different parties terrified to annoy people after golfgate etc? then tony comes back and basically forces them in public to make a a hard call.

TexasTornado · 05-10-2020 11:50AM

GazzaL wrote: »

**** NPHET. The amount of people running around panicking today is unbelievable.

How'd the march go Saturday?

Paddygreen · 05-10-2020 11:51AM

TexasTornado wrote: »

Never said it be easy but the alternative is harder.

Take Halloween for instance. I'm pretty active on several other forums and a poster suggested last week that the government should be bringing in measures now to enforce we see no bonfires or large scale gatherings of youths or adults at parties at that time.

If it means the army has to brought out to enforce it then so be it. The countries that have a handle on this have a massive buy in from the public and a widespread social consciousness that is absent here.

Halloween this year could very well be a massive super spreading event if allowed go ahead as usual as thousands of people gather is huge huddled groups drinking and what not.

Huddled groups of spreader units bobbing for apples, pining the tail on the donkey, passing around Mary Jane and cans of Galahad. It really would be dawn of the dead as these antisocial spreader units filter back into the community as host vectors for the deadly virus. If our leaders and experts don’t lock us all down for Halloween it is going to be carnage, 28 days later job.

iamwhoiam · 05-10-2020 11:51AM

bennyl10 wrote: »

It got us to a very good place in the summer,

a place that has now been ruined by people being eegits and thinking the rules don't apply to them.

Where we are now is not because of March its because n the past 8 or so weeks, so many people have stopped giving a crap, and those same people are saying "NPHET are abusing power" now

If level 4/5 is what THE EXPERTS think is needed to get us back to a safe and sustainable place, for the health service and all of us, then so be it, that is the fact.

Marching down grafton street like a gob****e is why we are here

So we bite the bullet again like we did in March . And then what happens ? The same people will not give a crap and the same eejits will be eejity once again
Ad finitum

polesheep · 05-10-2020 11:51AM

bennyl10 wrote: »

It got us to a very good place in the summer,

a place that has now been ruined by people being eegits and thinking the rules don't apply to them.

Where we are now is not because of March its because n the past 8 or so weeks, so many people have stopped giving a crap, and those same people are saying "NPHET are abusing power" now

If level 4/5 is what THE EXPERTS think is needed to get us back to a safe and sustainable place, for the health service and all of us, then so be it, that is the fact.

Marching down grafton street like a gob****e is why we are here

You really should have left it at the bit in bold. It's what the 'experts' didn't do afterwards that has us back here. e.g. Increase ICU capacity.

titan18 · 05-10-2020 11:51AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

While I don't even like using the phrase police state because its not what it is.

It was and still would be extremely difficult to ever give enforcement powers for private homes purely due to to the constitution and its stance on the private home. You can't just rip that up and say to hell with it heres the powers, that's not how it works.

While I dont agree with house parties and people should have had more cop on theres a bit more behind it than just saying oh enforce this and enforce that

Shouldn't be though. It's likely a minority (albeit sizable enough) that are breaking these rules. Why should that minority be allowed off with no punishment when there's plenty who are obeying the rules, both people and businesses, who are now going to suffer. If the constitution says guards can't enter private homes to break up house parties, fcuk the constitution cos whoever wrote it wasn't thinking of every possible scenario.

polesheep · 05-10-2020 11:52AM

Deleted User wrote: »

In any company with a leader as the CEO, and a half decent board, he’d be listened to. It’s then up to them to decide what to do. Only an idiot wouldn’t listen

He's compromised and he cannot be objective.

rob316 · 05-10-2020 11:53AM

The big thing I am against in 4 and 5 is the shutting of non-essential retail, its not needed. We already have limits on people in shops, social distancing, mask wearing and you don't spend any sort of length of time in them like pubs/restaurants. Are they really a risk?

The numbers jumped when the schools re-opened, its transmission through families we need to crack down on. Closes pubs/restaurants, travel limit and ban household visits. Gardai enforcement needed again also.

05-10-2020 11:55AM

polesheep wrote: »

He's compromised and he cannot be objective.

How is he compromised?

Boggles · 05-10-2020 11:56AM

seamus wrote: »

Nobody is saying that. But clearly somebody has made a balls of something here.

Mid-last week;

"Things aren't going great, we'll probably look at moving other counties to higher levels"

"There are encouraging signs from Dublin"

"We're not just looking at case numbers, we're looking at other indicators before making decisions"

After three days of worsening numbers, and on the day that Dr. Holohan returns:

"LOCK. DOWN. EVERYTHING".

So there's something fvcky going on here.

And if it is the case, as another poster has alluded to, that Dr. Holohan took himself off sabbatical so that he could take over and demand a new lockdown, then his judgement needs to be called into question, as well as the entire point of having NPHET there at all.

Here is the statement Thursday

The National Public Health Emergency Team met today to review the epidemiological situation nationally.

The NPHET noted a further deterioration from last week. The 5 day average for cases is now 412 and 18 counties have an increased incidence rate when compared with last week. The reproduction number is estimated to be between 1.2 and 1.4, with the growth rate in cases between 4-5% per day. NPHET today noted a particular concern in relation to trends in indicators of disease severity. There are 119 people in hospital with 20 in critical care and there were 32 deaths in September.

While there continues to be a number of counties with particularly high incidence, the NPHET’s main concern now is the overall national picture.

Given the disease profile, NPHET today recommended that no more than 2 households should meet at any given time. People should only have a maximum of 6 visitors from 1 other household to their home. People can continue to meet socially in other settings, but only with people from one other household.

NPHET have further advised that Government extend the Level 2 measures currently in place for a further period of three weeks, with Donegal and Dublin remaining at Level 3. NPHET will continue to monitor this situation very closely

It's pretty simple, the virus has reseeded nationally.

Whack a mole is no longer possible.

Boggles · 05-10-2020 11:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

How is he compromised?

Putin. Always Putin.

Thomas.. · 05-10-2020 11:57AM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Heard that, there seems to be a weak minded mentality when it comes to the prospect of applying law to public behavior. Peer pressure clearly not sufficient. Various GAA hoolies, Antimask marches, student house parties, all ongoing and not a finger lifted to stop or curtail.

Fines and jail won't work

Can't be collected , judicial system and jails overwhelmed already

Add to that public opinion if you started throwing randommers in jail

Complete red herring

polesheep · 05-10-2020 11:57AM

rob316 wrote: »

The big thing I am against in 4 and 5 is the shutting of non-essential retail, its not needed. We already have limits on people in shops, social distancing, mask wearing and you don't spend any sort of length of time in them like pubs/restaurants. Are they really a risk?

The numbers jumped when the schools re-opened, its transmission through families we need to crack down on. Closes pubs/restaurants, travel limit and ban household visits. Gardai enforcement needed again also.

The numbers have risen because people have once again got on with living their lives. It's a choice people made. Even some of those on here with extreme pro-restriction views will have done it, if only in a minor way. A few months ago the herd started to move again. It might be possible to slow it but it won't be stopped.

pc7 · 05-10-2020 11:58AM

They have to be seeing figures/stats we aren’t, but if they are it needs to be explained and communicated.
I’d hazard contact tracing is failing and if they can’t catch it they don’t know where it is. I just don’t think they’d go full Level5 without good reason.

Micky 32 · 05-10-2020 12:00PM

John O.Groats wrote: »

Agreed. The restrictions thread in particular is likely to be infested with comments from the permanently fake outraged anti authority rabble rousing guttersnipes right enough.

Would you ever give it a rest? You sound like someone that does nothing all day but moaning and groaning about other people.

Non solum non ambulabit · 05-10-2020 12:01PM

rob316 wrote: »

The big thing I am against in 4 and 5 is the shutting of non-essential retail, its not needed. We already have limits on people in shops, social distancing, mask wearing and you don't spend any sort of length of time in them like pubs/restaurants. Are they really a risk?

The numbers jumped when the schools re-opened, its transmission through families we need to crack down on. Closes pubs/restaurants, travel limit and ban household visits. Gardai enforcement needed again also.

Totally agree with this. Retail is not the problem yet we close them and destroy jobs and livelihoods. We need targeted measures.

05-10-2020 12:01PM

Reading how things played out last night, with Holohan convening a meeting, and following that up with the letter, it’s obvious that he has completely disagreed with the NPHET stance while he has been away. I know that he stood down, but it staggers me that no-one in NPHET has been taking his figurative temperature with respect to the approach, such that last night was obviously a surprise to all, including, I assume, Nolan and Glynn

Widdensushi · 05-10-2020 12:02PM

pc7 wrote: »

They have to be seeing figures/stats we aren’t, but if they are it needs to be explained and communicated.
I’d hazard contact tracing is failing and if they can’t catch it they don’t know where it is. I just don’t think they’d go full Level5 without good reason.

They need to show the people if so, people aren't going to take notice of people that advice on Thursday that there is no need to go to 3 and on Sunday says we need 5. They have lost credibility with their lack of consistency. If they go too far they will lose the will of too many people to be effective.

GeorgeBailey · 05-10-2020 12:02PM

They need to add an extra solidarity element to level 5 that those responsible for the decision will for the period of level 5 move to PUP payments.

odyssey06 · 05-10-2020 12:03PM

The Journal poll has 37% against Level 5, 30% in favour and 25% for Level 4.

ellee · 05-10-2020 12:05PM

Do you not all think that really, the elephants in this particular room and a major part of this **** up would appear to be a failure

> to track and trace (only going back 2 days until last week, far too many "community transmissions" ie we don't know where it came from and can't be bothered to find out),
> test (1000 a day not showing up a couple of weeks ago, results taking too long),
> increase ICU capacity to a suitable level (this seems so basic, what the hell have they actually been doing since last March?) and
> then sit down and think through how to target further interventions instead getting out their auld sledgehammer?

Per the app, there are 21 people in ICU. 134 people in hospital. There's 5m of us in the country. Needing to see family and earn a living are not luxury items, they are absolute imperatives and need to be factored into the advice on that basis, instead they are the first thing thrown on the fire. They got time in the last lockdown to prepare as above and it seems to me they did not use it.

That committee needs to be reconstituted so its expertise and perspective extends beyond mere public health.

This is not just a public health crisis. It is a social, economic and mental health crisis. Restricting the viewpoint to just suppressing the virus at this point is an actual liability, not to mention the attitude of bombing your advice on the public on a Sunday evening without apparently consulting with govt. Not exactly designed to inspire confidence in a united leadership now is it?

Widdensushi · 05-10-2020 12:06PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

The Journal poll has 37% against Level 5, 30% in favour and 25% for Level 4.

70% against means enforcement would be a disaster

froog · 05-10-2020 12:07PM

the 5 level system needs to go.

there should be three levels;

1. GREEN - basic controls, masks, handwashing. all businesses open.
2. AMBER - stay in county, small amount of visitors, all businesses still open with control measures except pubs, no crowds at sporting events.
3. RED - total lockdown as per april, schools closed.

everywhere green until we get a vaccine. amber if cases are rising for a period of 3-5 consecutive days. RED if cases still rising two weeks after going AMBER.

no debating, no sub committees. the levels enforced immediately. everyone knows the criteria.

Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

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