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Do bullies know they're bullies?

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    #32
    Laughing with Me
    Site Banned Posts: 41 ✭Laughing with Me


    HildaOgdenx wrote: »
    The worst bully I witnessed in action, was (except for those of us who saw through him) the most genial, always good humoured, smiling ****er.

    I think he literally would not believe it if someone called him a bully.
    Tell me more about him?


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    #33
    Laughing with Me
    Site Banned Posts: 41 ✭Laughing with Me


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    when I think of the word bully, I think of one person. the definition of the word, goes out of his way looking for trouble and to have arguments with everyone he meets, beats his girlfriend, beats smaller men and so on. The guy is a total loser, cant hold down a job, no education, no common sense, very insecure, has no friends, is a fat mess. I can not wait until I see his downfall, that will be one sweet day.
    A very narrow minded idea of what a bully is! Eliminating an entire gender there in fact!


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    #34
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    "Nobody is a villain in their own story." I can't remember where the quote is from but it's very apt. I think they know they're bullies but they justify it to themselves, probably along a "might is right" or Darwinian themes. And if they stopped to think about their victim, their own wants take precedence.


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    #35
    pgj2015
    Registered Users Posts: 9,006 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Laughing with Me wrote: »
    A very narrow minded idea of what a bully is! Eliminating an entire gender there in fact!




    I know there are many kinds of bullies but im just talking about one I know.


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    #36
    Laughing with Me
    Site Banned Posts: 41 ✭Laughing with Me


    I remember once in school this fella was taunting me for weeks. I had a plan to beat him up when he came towards me next. It didn't seem to happen. He came up to me one day and said "we'll call it a quits so" and held out his hand. Why did it have to be like this I thought. I sucker punched him right in the face. He went to the ground but got straight up and walked off. I got suspended for a day.

    That was back when bullying was easier to handle. It's much different when you're an adult.


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    #37
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Some of the tougher bully types where I grew up were absolutely hard as nails and would beat the sh*t out of anyone who looked at them funny

    Had exactly that experience too. Normally lads from horrific home backgrounds. Had more than a touch of viciousness to them. Standing up to them in the sense of verbal confrontation or throwing a punch would not have ended well. If you punched you better keep punching and do a fair bit of damage or you were fcuked quite simply.


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    #38
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    Of course they so.
    But they're also too full of sh@te and arrogance to care or to want to change their behaviour.

    In my eyes they are scum. Just slightly less scummy than the absolutely lowest scum, anyone who harms an animal.


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    #39
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Depends on the bully and what the end game is.

    Women who cry are emotional bullies. They play the victim card to get what they want. As soon as they are not getting it the waterworks arrive.

    But if you do not stand up to a bully you are finished. That is the same globally. Even the hard lads don't want the hassle, it might cost you a few shiners and a beating, but they never come back if you stand up for yourself.

    If you are being bullied fight back, it works and more often than not it is the only language the bully respects.


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    #40
    Sadb
    Registered Users Posts: 10,683 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    I had a very recent experience with a bully. He was my new boss who took over the place I worked.

    A complete lack of empathy was one of the early signs. For example he wanted me to go a week in hand with 2 days notice (I had worked here for 22 years) I had to get the WRC involved to inform him that this was completely illegal but he simply could not fathom why I wouldn’t go a week in hand. Even when I explained that I had a family to feed and bills to pay he still couldn’t see it.

    Standing up to him only made things worse for me. He pitted other employees against me, changed passwords on systems I needed to access, completely prevented me from actually doing my job.

    He believed he was gods gift and that I must be the only person in the world that didn’t like him. We had a health inspection due to a complaint and he told me after that he knew it was me that reported him-I didn’t. But he simply could not see how anyone else could have an issue with the way he did things so it had to be me in his mind.

    He often paid my wages late or paid me less wages. Constantly monitoring us on CCTV. He was constantly intruding on your personal space too.

    He is a complete idiot, has no clue how to run a business, has zero social skills and thinks he is the best person to ever live. As Carly Simon would say- he wouldn’t even know this post is about him!


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    #41
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    They do. They also know they are pr*cks.

    Funnily enough so does everyone else.


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    #42
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,980 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Interesting, did he ever tell you either in email or personally that he was monitoring you or colleagues using CCTV ? It may be illegal if your employer is constantly or routinely monitoring you performance on cctv. The legislation is worded in quite a deliberately vague fashion though which is a head scratcher, almost seems contradictory... but they should not be doing it...

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/data_protection_at_work/surveillance_of_electronic_communications_in_the_workplace.html

    “For example, using CCTV to detect intruders, vandals or thieves may be reasonable. However, using CCTV to constantly monitor employees would be intrusive and would only be justified in special circumstances.“


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    #43
    Sadb
    Registered Users Posts: 10,683 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    Strumms wrote: »
    Interesting, did he ever tell you either in email or personally that he was monitoring you or colleagues using CCTV ? It may be illegal if your employer is constantly or routinely monitoring you performance on cctv. The legislation is worded in quite a deliberately vague fashion though which is a head scratcher, almost seems contradictory... but they should not be doing it...

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/data_protection_at_work/surveillance_of_electronic_communications_in_the_workplace.html

    “For example, using CCTV to detect intruders, vandals or thieves may be reasonable. However, using CCTV to constantly monitor employees would be intrusive and would only be justified in special circumstances.“

    Ya, I have evidence of it as he would often text into his work WhatsApp group things like “could you move the box by the back door” etc. I did look where to make a complaint but it seems impossible unless you actually want to pay a solicitor to sue him!


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    #44
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,980 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Sadb wrote: »
    Ya, I have evidence of it as he would often text into his work WhatsApp group things like “could you move the box by the back door” etc. I did look where to make a complaint but it seems impossible unless you actually want to pay a solicitor to sue him!

    He could probably claim he saw the box there himself earlier in fact too. So unless he actually WhatsApp’d.... “lads I’m looking at cctv here, can you move the box I asked you not to leave it there ”... or “lads, that was an extra 5 minutes over your break time, I’ve got you on camera let’s keep it to 20 minutes”... you could actually take that evidence...

    Too, if he said.., “lads, no football in the warehouse we talked about that”... you could be smart and say... “we wernt”... which he’d no doubt reply with “ ehhh I’m watching you on camera”....

    Gotta give him enough rope, get him complacent like you expect it.


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    #45
    cj maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,645 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    A bully is always one , and they know it imo.
    The only things that change, depending on circumstance, are the victims


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    #46
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,980 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    cj maxx wrote: »
    A bully is always one , and they know it imo.
    The only things that change, depending on circumstance, are the victims

    100%

    They know it, but they always try to publicly justify that behavior. Twist the purpose of their behavior....Be it in a peer group, management team.. sports team... it’s always floated as being for the greater good of things...

    When it was rife in an old job we’d get... “ look, I’m saying this for the benefit of xx person AND everyone..”

    I asked, “well if speaking like this about and to people is something you think is for our benefit you might want to go back to management school or dig out the manual and show us the paragraph that advocates talking to and about people like that”... fella was suitably less vocal for several meetings but did have to be reminded and ego checked occasionally. 12 years a supervisor and overlooked for promotion to manager 3 times.... staff never had his back which must have been a nice feeling, slowly management ostracized him too when he played hangman with them to boost his career to the point of him always dining alone at lunch.. to just being alone, in every aspect of his work life, I almost began felling sorry for him. :eek: almost !:D


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    #47
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Some act out as a consequence of their environment in order to relieve the pressure they're under, so by seemingly, mistakingly, improving their mental state. They can be born a sociopath or made into one. They can also be born a psychopath from which there is usually no resolution .


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    #48
    FGR
    Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭FGR


    To me the worst kind of bully is the one who colleagues and management think is the soundest person on earth but treats one or two people like garbage. Those few people are afraid to say anything because they know they won't be believed.

    I remember one manager suggesting that a person grow a thicker skin. I objected but they couldn't understand how that person saw the bully as anything but a sound guy.

    I also can't help but notice that bullying policies in workplaces aren't worth the paper they're written on. Often it's the bullied person who has to leave the job while the bullied stays.

    Very sad and infuriating that we as a supposed intelligent and learned species can't even Co operate without some hidden desire to demean others.


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    #49
    jmlad2020
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭jmlad2020


    Laughing with Me wrote: »
    You know the way we all hear people talking about bullying? Well, I have to wonder what do bullies think when they hear all this? It must make it even more funny to them that they aren't getting caught. So does this make them quietly gloat to themselves? Or maybe they don't know they're bullies, and this could cause them to instead think back to a time when they were bullied! Or maybe they're thinking something like "well at least the person I bullied definitely deserved it".

    No the majority of bullies don't but some probably do and continue to bully. Some self confessed nice people are bullies and they are oblivious to their actions.


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    #50
    pgj2015
    Registered Users Posts: 9,006 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    FGR wrote: »
    To me the worst kind of bully is the one who colleagues and management think is the soundest person on earth but treats one or two people like garbage. Those few people are afraid to say anything because they know they won't be believed.

    I remember one manager suggesting that a person grow a thicker skin. I objected but they couldn't understand how that person saw the bully as anything but a sound guy.

    I also can't help but notice that bullying policies in workplaces aren't worth the paper they're written on. Often it's the bullied person who has to leave the job while the bullied stays.

    Very sad and infuriating that we as a supposed intelligent and learned species can't even Co operate without some hidden desire to demean others.



    I remember a lecturer in college who i sat in on a few of his lectures, the guy was a complete a$shole, roaring at people and trying to make fun of them, bullying first years more than other years. ignorant thick man. i remember saying it to a guy in the class, "ah I think hes hilarious" no hes not hes a c**t.


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    #51
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    worked for me. I was getting bullied by the same guy in class,over a long time, who had a different face to other people. Until he challenged me to a fight. I was a real weed but this time, I clocked him with my schoolbag and landed a few more digs and ran while he was stunned. he never bothered me after that.

    I'm 54 now and that happened when i was 13 and I still think about it to his day, so that's the effect it has.He actually was a bright guy but regarded bullying me as just a normal part of his day. I'd punch him hard in the face if I met him now , that's how much it has affected me,and Im not a violent man.


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    #52
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    Of course they do
    They are not happy in their own lives

    Bullying is less acceptable these days

    Girls do it as well but try and hide it also teacher s don't believe girls are.bullys


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    #53
    Kylta
    Registered Users Posts: 15,457 ✭✭✭✭Kylta


    I oftened wonder about bullying in school, when I was in school the boys would be constantly fighting with each other. The boy who didn't fight was the one who get picked on because I suppose they look on him as defenceless. But when I look back on school yard stuff it was constant scraping by most boys even after school. There was a boy who at time who was the most inoffensive person I ever met( and still is to this day) but the best scrapper in the school and never once did I see him actually pick on anybody.
    But in school would I call myself a bully I truly don't know I never picked on anybody unless I was picked on first. Maybe their are people out there saying I was, and maybe there are people out there remembering how they picked on the wrong boy.
    My impression of a bully is a person who preys on the weakness of others. And I believe their not as stupid as people think. How come a bully won't pick on a bigger bully. He ain't as thick as people think


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    #54
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    bobbyy gee wrote: »
    teacher s don't believe girls are.bullys
    yeah no they really do...most teachers i have ever had were aware both guys and girls could be bullies. Unfortunately most teachers don't care.


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    #55
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Bullies who don't know they are bullies are little slow. But yes they exist.


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    #56
    Kylta
    Registered Users Posts: 15,457 ✭✭✭✭Kylta


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    yeah no they really do...most teachers i have ever had were aware both guys and girls could be bullies. Unfortunately most teachers don't care.

    I think girls are actually worst bullies, than boys, they don't even have to assault other girls they gang up their victim on the likes of social media. Were the victims have actually commited suicide


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    #57
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    I dont think they would care at all to change their behavior just because there is a label of bully attached to it. They do what they do for personal gain or pleasure or deep insecurity. I also dont buy into the whole miserable behind closed doors theory either. Yes, some of them definitely are and take out their anger on their subordinates or family but a lot are very happy in themselves and use their forceful personality for a successful career and a large family with plenty of money to spare, merely lucky side effects of what they would term a willful personality.

    One thing in common with all bullies though, successful or not, is that they are cowards. Absolute yellow belly cowards. I have yet to meet a bully who didnt back down if you stand up to them. Yes, not that easy if its your boss etc and they certainly dont have an epiphany moment where they change their personality but if they try to bully a person who is well able for them, they rarely pick on that person again.

    plenty of bullies arent cowards , you can be bad and brave at the same time

    the one trait which does apply to all bullies is arrogance , the arrogance to believe you are entitled to demean , humiliate and subjugate someone else


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    #58
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    FGR wrote: »
    To me the worst kind of bully is the one who colleagues and management think is the soundest person on earth but treats one or two people like garbage. Those few people are afraid to say anything because they know they won't be believed.

    I remember one manager suggesting that a person grow a thicker skin. I objected but they couldn't understand how that person saw the bully as anything but a sound guy.

    I also can't help but notice that bullying policies in workplaces aren't worth the paper they're written on. Often it's the bullied person who has to leave the job while the bullied stays.

    Very sad and infuriating that we as a supposed intelligent and learned species can't even Co operate without some hidden desire to demean others.


    plenty of workplace bullies deliver for the bottom line handsomely and so management and owners are perfectly happy to overlook the bullying

    typical HR speak like " you and bully had a personality clash " gets gormlessly trotted out , its a sneaky way of implying its as much the victims fault as the perpetrator , those who profit from yet cover for bullies are as bad as the bullies themselves


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    #59
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Kylta wrote: »
    I think girls are actually worst bullies, than boys, they don't even have to assault other girls they gang up their victim on the likes of social media. Were the victims have actually commited suicide

    they can also reach for the misogyny card if accused of bullying by a male worker etc , this deters management from acting for fear they are accused of sexism , female bosses have more or less immunity from bullying charges


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    #60
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,092 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I did my fair share of bullying in secondary school. I was generally popular - most of my friends were art/musicians and I was on the rugby team. So I didn't have any bullies myself from transition year onwards. I wasn't bad, I'm sure of that and I never went out of my way to bully people but I didn't do much to stop it when others did it and I occasionally joined in.

    There was one time when I was aware that I was being a prick when there was a bloke on the rugby team who I liked and would chat with (though we didn't hang around in the same groups apart from rugby). He was a funny guy but it wasn't intentional. He'd say daft things and spoke in a slow deep, voice and was just ripe for sagging. He had a few catch phrases and nicknames.

    Anyway I met him a few years later and told him that I was sorry for my part in it, that he did t deserve the sagging (beyond the normal to-and-fro that young lads get up to) and it was almost entirely about our own insecurities and he deserved much better.

    He appreciated the jesture and told me he never considered me one of the actual bullies but by my own standards, I was a bully and a coward for not standing up for him and telling the lads to fcuk off. I was popular enough that I could have afforded to tell my mates to stop without even losing much 'social capital'.

    While I can't remember whether I always knew I was being a bully when I was being a bully, I definitely remember a couple of times when I knew it wasn't right but went along with it anyway.


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    #61
    8kczg9v0swrydm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭8kczg9v0swrydm


    I think bullies need to justify their actions to themselves - one of the worst things to live with is a guilty conscience. Often they will simply see the person whom they are bullying as their enemy, especially if that person said something back once or twice. They will lock onto them and seek to damage them, as their enemy. How the whole situation started will often get lost in the mist of time, at least for the bully.

    So in the bully's mind, he will often see himself as simply fighting his corner. He will not reflect on his actions and in fact will develop a habit of seeing the person as 'enemy' every time the two meet.

    I think that one of the only ways to stop this process is for the bully to somehow reform himself - to tackle underlying anger issues or whatever else is causing his behavior (often this is violence that is meted out to him at the hands of someone else, and the bully 'passes it on').

    Many a time a bully can be pacified with kindness and humility shown by the bullied. Tough? Yes. But there is something to it.

    “Where there is no love, put love -- and you will find love.” St. John of the Cross
    “Humility disarms” - Anonymous piece of wisdom


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