Titanium bikes...

comete · 29-09-2020 7:51pm

Oh no, it was £1600 rrp including the full carbon fork, but i found one that was 20% off.

A close friend of mine is a bike builder and has very recently started building ti frames, but the cost is fairly eye watering.

brownian · 29-09-2020 9:53pm

Fugs!! wrote: »

I'd prefer to be comfortable if cycling for 8 or 10 hours tbh but, I'll take note of your opinion.

I'm with HarringtonP on this one. My Van Nic hangs in the shed. TBH it's much more fun to ride on my carbon bike - much zippier, much more response when you put some power down. I rode two Van Nics for about five years, before I got a carbon bike. The difference blew me away.

I did ride to Dromod and back (150 each way) last Christmas on the Van Nic, as my carbon bike was elsewhere, and I got there and back no problem...but it was less fun.

If comfort is your thing (and it's mine), you can go with fat tyres, with a leather saddle, with a split seatpost, with elastomer-loaded stem, and still keep the key 'get up and go' of a carbon bike.

Like everything else in cycling (more or less) there's a lot of subjective preference. A Ti bike is hard to wreck, and hard to scratch (if you go bare, which you should!). I amn't convinced about the ride - maybe others just ride really harsh carbon bikes ? Anyway - ride one for a weekend and see. If you want to borrow one for a day, by all means drop me a PM - my Van Nic hangs in the shed...

MyAccount · 29-09-2020 10:08pm

think it depends on the geometry and tubing diameter and in the case of some of the more recent stuff tube profile - my Ti is more than stiff enough and certainly stiffer that my 653 bike

Weepsie · 29-09-2020 10:44pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I found it quite difficult to track down reliable information on the failure of Ti welds. Most of the articles I found seemed to be based on a very limited number of actual defects. I agree that finding someone to repair a Ti frame could be a problem but, with a lifetime guarantee from Van Nicholas, hopefully I will never need to go looking for a welder.

On the issue of price, I see that the Volare 931 frameset is listed at £2,300 on the Genesis website. I would be surprised if there aren't a fair few Ti framesets available at or below that price. They do list the Croix de Fer in Ti at £200 more than the Volare but I don't really know how the two frames compare. Both look terrific as I'm sure you know comete.

You can get the volare frameset for about a grand less from a few UK sites.

Croix de fer is a more do anything, go anywhere type of frame. Not quite Cx, gravel or road.

magicbastarder · 29-09-2020 10:47pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

On the issue of price, I see that the Volare 931 frameset is listed at £2,300 on the Genesis website.

to be fair, genesis prices have gone through the roof though; the equilibrium 20 disc was £1500 five years ago, now it's an eye watering £2400.

sparky_marcus · 30-09-2020 1:07pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

to be fair, genesis prices have gone through the roof though; the equilibrium 20 disc was £1500 five years ago, now it's an eye watering £2400.

Indeed but good value second hand out there, got a Volare 853 last month with Ultegra group for £900, rides like a dream, after being on alu for 15 years the steel is incredible. Again with 931 stainless and the weight/finishes being achieved why pay more Ti, I hazard you could get a custom built Rourke 853/931 stainless cheaper than a off the peg Ti, course you wouldn't be as "cool"

thehangtenguy · 01-10-2020 8:18am

I have a van nicholas the last 6 year and would agree with a lot of what is being said here interms of comfort particularly on rougher roads. Not sure how much that’s down to material or geometry. It’s not the fastest bike I have but It’s the bike I would use for a longer day in the saddle or on rougher roads despite only fitting 25mm tyres. I love the aesthetic of a Ti frame with skinny tubes. I brought mine to the cobbles of Flanders last year and I think it was the perfect bike for the weekend. With a lifetime warranty on the frame I don’t think I’ll ever sell it.

Wanderer78 · 01-10-2020 8:30am

Fugs!! wrote:

What weld issues? Surely you can have weld issues with steel also.. I love titanium as a material having worked with it years ago I became quite mesmerised by its properties.

I can also understand your admiration for titanium, I loved working with it also, by far one of the most interesting materials out there, extremely malleable etc, but it's important to remember, we were working with the high grade stuff, I'd say the lower grade, in fact I'd say all of it, would probably be a nightmare as a bike. It would be a great project for yourself, but probably a pain in the hole in reality, for your cycling needs. I ll text you later, sorry up to my eyeballs all week

magicbastarder · 01-10-2020 9:12am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I loved working with it also

what were you doing with it?

Wanderer78 · 01-10-2020 10:31am

magicbastarder wrote: »

what were you doing with it?

manufacturing components for the aerospace industry

Fugs!! · 01-10-2020 5:31pm

All very interesting thanks folks. I've alot of pondering to do.

Mercian Pro · 01-10-2020 5:50pm

Fugs!! wrote: »

All very interesting thanks folks. I've alot of pondering to do.

A few more things to ponder as well as frame material:

Geometry - relaxed or competitive
Brakes - rim or disk
Tyre clearance - road or gravel
Extras - mudguard/pannier eyes
Group-set - electronic or manual
Do you love it?
Price!

Wanderer78 · 01-10-2020 6:13pm

you can also get extremely thinly rolled aluminum frames, seen one in one of our lbs's a couple of years ago, at first glance, it looked like a carbon, the welds were fantastic on it, wouldnt like to be welding it though, id say you could easily destroy it, wonder would something like that be robot welded? the walls were so thin, i could push in the metal, very light to

Fugs!! · 02-10-2020 9:29am

Mercian Pro wrote: »

A few more things to ponder as well as frame material:
Geometry - relaxed or competitive

Brakes - rim or disk

Tyre clearance - road or gravel

Extras - mudguard/pannier eyes

Group-set - electronic or manual

Do you love it?

Price!

I've considered alot of those factors alright.

This is where I'm at. I have a good carbon race bike which over done long spins on but it's a race bike. Its nimble light exciting and for me comfertableish. I'm very attached to it as I've cycled everywhere on it. It's actually the best thing I've ever bought. Changed my life for the better.

For bike packing I have a carbon flat bar giant. Its superb and very very comfy. Its lovely on the local greenway too.

So I'm looking for something to do audax type events on. 200+ km rides. I did my first 200k audax this year and loved it. The race bike was good but towards the end I felt sore and was longing for a more upright position. I love titanium but as some have said "the lack of excitement" is a bit off putting for me.

I'd love a titanium but some of the carbon endurance bikes look very tempting.

smacl · 02-10-2020 9:53am

Fugs!! wrote: »

So I'm looking for something to do audax type events on. 200+ km rides. I did my first 200k audax this year and loved it. The race bike was good but towards the end I felt sore and was longing for a more upright position. I love titanium but as some have said "the lack of excitement" is a bit off putting for me.

I'd love a titanium but some of the carbon endurance bikes look very tempting.

Just a thought, but a lot of the audax routes cover l-roads in very poor condition and some have gravel & grass, e.g. three aqueducts. I reckon Ti or steel could be a better option than carbon in that scenario.

Large bottle small glass · 02-10-2020 10:04am

I've done a nice bit of audax over the years, and now almost exclusively ride the worst of L or county roads and can't tell any difference in comfort between alu road bike, Genesis steel bike and a Ridley cx.

I can tell the difference between a bike that doesn't fit me and between 23mm tyres at 8 bar and and 28mm tyre at 4.5bar.

I test rode a Van Nicholas in Killarney once; the rep was in store at time I called. Went of for a good spin. When I came back he asked did I appreciate the "titanium feel"; I told him it felt exactly like my €1000 Lapierre

Wanderer78 · 02-10-2020 10:06am

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

I've done a nice bit of audax over the years, and now almost exclusively ride the worst of L or county roads and can't tell any difference in comfort between alu road bike, Genesis steel bike and a Ridley cx.

I can tell the difference between a bike that doesn't fit me and between 23mm tyres at 8 bar and and 28mm tyre at 4.5bar.

I test rode a Van Nicholas in Killarney once; the rep was in store at time I called. Went of for a good spin. When I came back he asked did I appreciate the "titanium feel"; I told him it felt exactly like my €1000 Lapierre

his new best friend!

smacl · 02-10-2020 10:33am

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

I've done a nice bit of audax over the years, and now almost exclusively ride the worst of L or county roads and can't tell any difference in comfort between alu road bike, Genesis steel bike and a Ridley cx.

I can tell the difference between a bike that doesn't fit me and between 23mm tyres at 8 bar and and 28mm tyre at 4.5bar.

I test rode a Van Nicholas in Killarney once; the rep was in store at time I called. Went of for a good spin. When I came back he asked did I appreciate the "titanium feel"; I told him it felt exactly like my €1000 Lapierre

Good to know. I always route through l-roads and gravel by preference where the big difference for me is tyres. 40mm gravel tyres on my main CX bike and 25mm on my road bike which is almost exclusively used with the turbo. After that is saddle, B17 for me on all bikes. Looking at n+1 myself and fancied the idea of Ti but may now reconsider.

delynet · 02-10-2020 11:11am

PlanetX have couple of Titanium options. This and they also have a Gravel bike

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXHURV3R8000/planet-x-hurricane-shimano-ultegra-titanium-road-bike

Mefistofelino · 02-10-2020 11:59am

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

I've done a nice bit of audax over the years, and now almost exclusively ride the worst of L or county roads and can't tell any difference in comfort between alu road bike, Genesis steel bike and a Ridley cx.

I can tell the difference between a bike that doesn't fit me and between 23mm tyres at 8 bar and and 28mm tyre at 4.5bar.

I test rode a Van Nicholas in Killarney once; the rep was in store at time I called. Went of for a good spin. When I came back he asked did I appreciate the "titanium feel"; I told him it felt exactly like my €1000 Lapierre

My fleet and I feel personally attacked!

cletus · 02-10-2020 12:16pm

Here's an interesting video, although I expect that the conclusions drawn won't be too popular on this thread

:D:D

Large bottle small glass · 02-10-2020 12:31pm

Mefistofelino wrote: »

My fleet and I feel personally attacked!

As extensive as it is I never thought you had a titanium bike!

The thread needed balance. It was in danger of becoming a group masturbating in a round plane figure whose boundary consists of points equidistant from a fixed point

Fugs!! · 02-10-2020 12:36pm

Genesis equilibrium looks nice..

Mefistofelino · 02-10-2020 12:51pm

Fugs!! wrote: »

Genesis equilibrium looks nice..

As magicbastarder noted above, Genesis pricing has got very silly.

However if you are prepared to spend some time hunting, you can find decent discounts. The Croix de Fer 853 frameset is now around €1150 RRP but I got a brand new one from Fleabay for half that.

magicbastarder · 02-10-2020 1:45pm

i have two equilibria. both bought secondhand from boardsies. the disc one seems more 'planted' for some reason, but the rim brake one has specialised hover bars which i think adds a little too much height to the front.

Fugs!! · 02-10-2020 1:52pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have two equilibria. both bought secondhand from boardsies. the disc one seems more 'planted' for some reason, but the rim brake one has specialised hover bars which i think adds a little too much height to the front.

What are hover bars?

My local bike shop can supply me one which I like. It's a way of helping out.

Reading reviews and specs makes me want one. Looks really well too.

magicbastarder · 02-10-2020 1:54pm

the bars have a 15mm rise either side of the stem clamp:

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=&searchText=21017-2036

Large bottle small glass · 02-10-2020 2:00pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i have two equilibria..

Just two Genesis... a know a man with about 5 of those, steel, aluminium & carbon

Magilla Gorilla · 02-10-2020 2:45pm

cletus wrote: »

Here's an interesting video, although I expect that the conclusions drawn won't be too popular on this thread :D:D

Good video, thanks for posting.

magicbastarder · 02-10-2020 2:53pm

cletus wrote: »

Here's an interesting video, although I expect that the conclusions drawn won't be too popular on this thread :D:D

at the very start he claims 'my anecdotal experience...' and i turned the video off. unless he is actually an expert on the topic, he's just a punter with an opinion. i'm not saying his opinion is necessarily wrong, just that it's a valuable as anyone here who has tried lots of bikes of different materials.

also, on another note, i think i once read that one of the issues with aluminium is that it simply was not around long enough - it was the dominant material (certainly at the top end) for only a decade or two, so many people's opinions of it would have been shaped by early iterations which might have been poor.
for example, early carbon bikes probably feel like wet paper to modern ones.

Titanium bikes...

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