Do bullies know they're bullies?

Laughing with Me · 02-10-2020 9:44am #1

You know the way we all hear people talking about bullying? Well, I have to wonder what do bullies think when they hear all this? It must make it even more funny to them that they aren't getting caught. So does this make them quietly gloat to themselves? Or maybe they don't know they're bullies, and this could cause them to instead think back to a time when they were bullied! Or maybe they're thinking something like "well at least the person I bullied definitely deserved it".

Canyon86 · 02-10-2020 9:47am

I think they are too stupid to think they even are, in my experience bullies have serious personal issues mostly insecure,jealous and miserable in their own lives, and usually hiding behind a keyboard, I enjoy meeting bullies in person as they are usually a lot quieter than their online posts show

bocaman · 02-10-2020 9:51am

No not at all. They are actually sad people with many personal issues

Laughing with Me · 02-10-2020 9:52am

bocaman wrote: »

No not at all. They are actually sad people with many personal issues

Well that's the narrative we're supposed to believe.

Stovepipe · 02-10-2020 11:19am

They know full well what they are doing. When you get bullied as an adult and see them grinning, you know they are enjoying it.

Eduard Khil · 02-10-2020 11:21am

Yes yes they do particularly in group settings targeting individual people

Bullies are *****

Away With The Fairies · 02-10-2020 11:23am

Stovepipe wrote: »

They know full well what they are doing. When you get bullied as an adult and see them grinning, you know they are enjoying it.

Yep, they pick out one to bully but on their best behaviour for others. You don't just switch from being horrible to nice. So they know exactly what they're doing as bullies.

Pawwed Rig · 02-10-2020 11:27am

Laughing with Me wrote: »

You know the way we all hear people talking about bullying? Well, I have to wonder what do bullies think when they hear all this? It must make it even more funny to them that they aren't getting caught. So does this make them quietly gloat to themselves? Or maybe they don't know they're bullies, and this could cause them to instead think back to a time when they were bullied! Or maybe they're thinking something like "well at least the person I bullied definitely deserved it".

I recall many years ago a manager of mine was doing a cycle in aid of Aware quite oblivious to the fact that his bullying had caused one of his staff to seek the services of that same organisation. So no I think they are oblivious and lack empathy on a personal level.

02-10-2020 11:32am

Laughing with Me wrote: »

Well that's the narrative we're supposed to believe.

In my youth a bullied a lad. Im very ashamed of my behaviour now and once I realised what I was doing so from about 16 or 17.

The thing is, it was a desperate measure by a kid who was being bullied to get the bullies to like him. It didnt actually work but it did make me part of their gang until they turned on me again.

Now that was in primary school. I moved on in secondary and can say honestly that I didnt get involved in bullying and didnt condone it. Maybe it was just my school but it wasnt really an acceptable activity. It did happen Im sure, but not openly. One lad came out and left the school. I knew him from rugby but that was it. Was he bullied? Did his friends turn on him? I dunno, maybe but I never heard or saw anything.

anyway, Im just giving one example. I cant explain adult bullies who should certainly now better but its possible from the same place as mine was.

coolisin · 02-10-2020 11:38am

Depends.

Some people are aware and know what they are doing, these are usually people in "charge" as it's their power trip and power over you.
It was maybe hope they where treated so it's how they now treat the people under them.

Some people are oblivious and would think they are being bullied by someone else's actions even though they are doing the bullying.

miezekatze · 02-10-2020 12:56pm

I got bullied for most of my childhood and I think if I confronted these people now they would either be completely oblivious or they would give me some reason why it was all my fault. If people knew what they were doing was wrong and how it affects their victims, why is bullying so prevalent and why was it even kind of accepted years ago?

Thelonious Monk · 02-10-2020 1:00pm

Laughing with Me wrote: »

Well that's the narrative we're supposed to believe.

I always managed to stay on everyone's good side in school, but I know one guy who was a total prick to some of the weaker students. Really nasty at times. He now has a ridiculously beautiful wife, a PhD, and is raking in money working in hedge funds or something like that in London. I met him a couple of times while living there and he's a really cool bloke.

RonanP77 · 02-10-2020 1:45pm

I'm pretty sure they do, they just happen to be a**holes that don't care in most cases.

Wanderer2010 · 02-10-2020 2:17pm

I dont think they would care at all to change their behavior just because there is a label of bully attached to it. They do what they do for personal gain or pleasure or deep insecurity. I also dont buy into the whole miserable behind closed doors theory either. Yes, some of them definitely are and take out their anger on their subordinates or family but a lot are very happy in themselves and use their forceful personality for a successful career and a large family with plenty of money to spare, merely lucky side effects of what they would term a willful personality.

One thing in common with all bullies though, successful or not, is that they are cowards. Absolute yellow belly cowards. I have yet to meet a bully who didnt back down if you stand up to them. Yes, not that easy if its your boss etc and they certainly dont have an epiphany moment where they change their personality but if they try to bully a person who is well able for them, they rarely pick on that person again.

Richard Hillman · 02-10-2020 2:23pm

No. Everybody tends to think that they are the good guy but normal people can admit to themselves that they can be bad at times and that they are wrong. The most vicious people are absolutely dead set in the belief that they are the good ones. Thinking that you are the bad guy or that you are wrong requires empathy. What I believe is correct and everything else is wrong.

Thelonious Monk · 02-10-2020 2:26pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

One thing in common with all bullies though, successful or not, is that they are cowards. Absolute yellow belly cowards. I have yet to meet a bully who didnt back down if you stand up to them.

Some of the tougher bully types where I grew up were absolutely hard as nails and would beat the sh*t out of anyone who looked at them funny

Sardonicat · 02-10-2020 2:30pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I recall many years ago a manager of mine was doing a cycle in aid of Aware quite oblivious to the fact that his bullying had caused one of his staff to seek the services of that same organisation. So no I think they are oblivious and lack empathy on a personal level.

I doubt he didn't know he was causing his victim psychological harm - that's the point of bullying someone after all. He was doing the cycle for purposes of his image. This is actually fairly typical bully behaviour. I know someone who is a bully and a rabid racist. Openly uses the N word. Is currently pulling the wool over the eyes of a number of people with the opposite view and involved in activism because it's currently getting her what she wants. I'm sitting back waiting for the fall out when her mask inevitably slips.

Airyfairy12 · 02-10-2020 2:43pm

Everyones different but I think in some cases theres a lack of self awareness, denial and arrogance/entitlement. Too often I hear of people who are generally pretty horrible to others lose their mind when anyone criticizes them or treats them in a similar way.

I used to know a woman called Mary who was in my friend group, there was another girl in the group, Ill call her Ann who she used to bully. They lived together for a short time and this was when the bullying started, Ann had to lock her bedroom door to stop Mary going in and letting her other friends sleep in Anns beds and take her clothes when Ann went home for weekends.
Mary would leave her dishes in the sink and pressure Ann into washing them, eat Anns food, spread rumours behind her back around their circle and college year group.
When it came to Ann moving out she went home for the weekend and came back on the Monday to take her stuff, when hse arrived at the house Mary unbeknownst to Ann had a spare key for Anns room, she took all of Annes stuff out of her room, dumped all her belongings in the hall, threw the contents of the bin on top of her clothes and for years kept bringing up the private things she found in Anns room and threatened to tell people/made fun of her/hinted at it infront of other people.

The rumours Mary was spreading got so bad that Ann started to get very depressed. She didnt know it was Mary spreading rumours just felt like half of her classmates were avoiding her/whispering behind her back and she didnt know why. For example one night we were at a small party and Ann left the room to use the bathroom, when she left Mary goes 'Ann is really unnatractive' and bitched about her constantly, shared one or two made up embarrassing stories, then Ann came back and Mary went back to speaking to Ann like they were best friends, it was so strange to see the switch in Marys demeanor and attitude.
Ann thought herself and Mary were still friends and had moved on from the living situation but because of feeling excluded and disliked all the time by people in their group and in college she told Mary she was feeling suicidal, Mary told her she should kill herself if that's what she really wants to do.

After all that said, Mary constantly posts body positivity posts on facebook, status about being kind and having empathy, constantly sings her own praises and talks about mental health and being there for others. She's even been interviewed by a very well known brand about showing love for others and mental health awareness, she's had her face plastered all over billboards and magazines spreading this positive message.

Dont know if she genuinely believes herself to be caring and empathetic, if she's delusional or a narcissist.

whisky_galore · 02-10-2020 2:56pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

One thing in common with all bullies though, successful or not, is that they are cowards. Absolute yellow belly cowards. I have yet to meet a bully who didnt back down if you stand up to them.

How's that supposed to work for weedy kid vs beefy bully? Another narrative that isn't necessarily true.

Church on Tuesday · 02-10-2020 3:01pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I always managed to stay on everyone's good side in school, but I know one guy who was a total prick to some of the weaker students. Really nasty at times. He now has a ridiculously beautiful wife, a PhD, and is raking in money working in hedge funds or something like that in London. I met him a couple of times while living there and he's a really cool bloke.

He doesn't sound like one TBH.

shesty · 02-10-2020 3:08pm

I always think alcohol can show a true side of someone that might not usually be seen....that guy sounds like one of those.Wonder what he is like after a few drinks.

Sardonicat · 02-10-2020 3:08pm

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Dont know if she genuinely believes herself to be caring and empathetic, if she's delusional or a narcissist.

I'd wager all of the above are true.

Uncle Pierre · 02-10-2020 3:12pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

How's that supposed to work for weedy kid vs beefy bully? Another narrative that isn't necessarily true.

Exactly. I was weedy kid in National School, who used to be picked on by two beefy bullies. I remember trying to stand up to them once, and they battered the living sh1te out of me. I never tried it again.

whisky_galore · 02-10-2020 4:23pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Exactly. I was weedy kid in National School, who used to be picked on by two beefy bullies. I remember trying to stand up to them once, and they battered the living sh1te out of me. I never tried it again.

The standing up to bullies thing only works in Disney movies.

HildaOgdenx · 02-10-2020 4:30pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I recall many years ago a manager of mine was doing a cycle in aid of Aware quite oblivious to the fact that his bullying had caused one of his staff to seek the services of that same organisation. So no I think they are oblivious and lack empathy on a personal level.

I agree that some certainly are oblivious. Often using very underhanded methods to bully. And very lacking in empathy.

The worst bully I witnessed in action, was (except for those of us who saw through him) the most genial, always good humoured, smiling ****er.

I think he literally would not believe it if someone called him a bully.

Ekerot · 02-10-2020 4:46pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Exactly. I was weedy kid in National School, who used to be picked on by two beefy bullies. I remember trying to stand up to them once, and they battered the living sh1te out of me. I never tried it again.

That's why you bulk up and learn boxing man

Strumms · 02-10-2020 4:48pm

shesty wrote: »

I always think alcohol can show a true side of someone that might not usually be seen....that guy sounds like one of those.Wonder what he is like after a few drinks.

A saying I’ve always liked the saying .. ‘In vino veritas’... in wine there is truth.

It does tend to with a lot of people enable them to drop their guard, you can see the ‘real’ them

If I’m getting bullied I’m standing up for myself, I don’t care if the person doing the bullying had their mother and best friend die on their birthday, not my problem.

whisky_galore · 02-10-2020 4:49pm

Ekerot wrote: »

That's why you bulk up and learn boxing man

Not everyone can or wants to do that.

pgj2015 · 02-10-2020 5:13pm

when I think of the word bully, I think of one person. the definition of the word, goes out of his way looking for trouble and to have arguments with everyone he meets, beats his girlfriend, beats smaller men and so on. The guy is a total loser, cant hold down a job, no education, no common sense, very insecure, has no friends, is a fat mess. I can not wait until I see his downfall, that will be one sweet day.

Stovepipe · 02-10-2020 5:26pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

The standing up to bullies thing only works in Disney movies.

worked for me. I was getting bullied by the same guy in class,over a long time, who had a different face to other people. Until he challenged me to a fight. I was a real weed but this time, I clocked him with my schoolbag and landed a few more digs and ran while he was stunned. he never bothered me after that.

pgj2015 · 02-10-2020 5:30pm

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Everyones different but I think in some cases theres a lack of self awareness, denial and arrogance/entitlement. Too often I hear of people who are generally pretty horrible to others lose their mind when anyone criticizes them or treats them in a similar way.

I used to know a woman called Mary who was in my friend group, there was another girl in the group, Ill call her Ann who she used to bully. They lived together for a short time and this was when the bullying started, Ann had to lock her bedroom door to stop Mary going in and letting her other friends sleep in Anns beds and take her clothes when Ann went home for weekends.
Mary would leave her dishes in the sink and pressure Ann into washing them, eat Anns food, spread rumours behind her back around their circle and college year group.
When it came to Ann moving out she went home for the weekend and came back on the Monday to take her stuff, when hse arrived at the house Mary unbeknownst to Ann had a spare key for Anns room, she took all of Annes stuff out of her room, dumped all her belongings in the hall, threw the contents of the bin on top of her clothes and for years kept bringing up the private things she found in Anns room and threatened to tell people/made fun of her/hinted at it infront of other people.

The rumours Mary was spreading got so bad that Ann started to get very depressed. She didnt know it was Mary spreading rumours just felt like half of her classmates were avoiding her/whispering behind her back and she didnt know why. For example one night we were at a small party and Ann left the room to use the bathroom, when she left Mary goes 'Ann is really unnatractive' and bitched about her constantly, shared one or two made up embarrassing stories, then Ann came back and Mary went back to speaking to Ann like they were best friends, it was so strange to see the switch in Marys demeanor and attitude.
Ann thought herself and Mary were still friends and had moved on from the living situation but because of feeling excluded and disliked all the time by people in their group and in college she told Mary she was feeling suicidal, Mary told her she should kill herself if that's what she really wants to do.

After all that said, Mary constantly posts body positivity posts on facebook, status about being kind and having empathy, constantly sings her own praises and talks about mental health and being there for others. She's even been interviewed by a very well known brand about showing love for others and mental health awareness, she's had her face plastered all over billboards and magazines spreading this positive message.

Dont know if she genuinely believes herself to be caring and empathetic, if she's delusional or a narcissist.

why didnt you tell Ann that Mary wasnt really her friend and what she was up to?

also if I knew what you know, I would try to have mary outed like ellen was.

Laughing with Me · 02-10-2020 5:58pm

HildaOgdenx wrote: »

The worst bully I witnessed in action, was (except for those of us who saw through him) the most genial, always good humoured, smiling ****er.

I think he literally would not believe it if someone called him a bully.

Tell me more about him?

Laughing with Me · 02-10-2020 6:01pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

when I think of the word bully, I think of one person. the definition of the word, goes out of his way looking for trouble and to have arguments with everyone he meets, beats his girlfriend, beats smaller men and so on. The guy is a total loser, cant hold down a job, no education, no common sense, very insecure, has no friends, is a fat mess. I can not wait until I see his downfall, that will be one sweet day.

A very narrow minded idea of what a bully is! Eliminating an entire gender there in fact!

alchemist33 · 02-10-2020 6:04pm

"Nobody is a villain in their own story." I can't remember where the quote is from but it's very apt. I think they know they're bullies but they justify it to themselves, probably along a "might is right" or Darwinian themes. And if they stopped to think about their victim, their own wants take precedence.

pgj2015 · 02-10-2020 6:04pm

Laughing with Me wrote: »

A very narrow minded idea of what a bully is! Eliminating an entire gender there in fact!

I know there are many kinds of bullies but im just talking about one I know.

Laughing with Me · 02-10-2020 6:06pm

I remember once in school this fella was taunting me for weeks. I had a plan to beat him up when he came towards me next. It didn't seem to happen. He came up to me one day and said "we'll call it a quits so" and held out his hand. Why did it have to be like this I thought. I sucker punched him right in the face. He went to the ground but got straight up and walked off. I got suspended for a day.

That was back when bullying was easier to handle. It's much different when you're an adult.

smellyoldboot · 02-10-2020 6:14pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Some of the tougher bully types where I grew up were absolutely hard as nails and would beat the sh*t out of anyone who looked at them funny

Had exactly that experience too. Normally lads from horrific home backgrounds. Had more than a touch of viciousness to them. Standing up to them in the sense of verbal confrontation or throwing a punch would not have ended well. If you punched you better keep punching and do a fair bit of damage or you were fcuked quite simply.

Rubberchikken · 02-10-2020 6:14pm

Of course they so.
But they're also too full of sh@te and arrogance to care or to want to change their behaviour.

In my eyes they are scum. Just slightly less scummy than the absolutely lowest scum, anyone who harms an animal.

IAMAMORON · 02-10-2020 6:16pm

Depends on the bully and what the end game is.

Women who cry are emotional bullies. They play the victim card to get what they want. As soon as they are not getting it the waterworks arrive.

But if you do not stand up to a bully you are finished. That is the same globally. Even the hard lads don't want the hassle, it might cost you a few shiners and a beating, but they never come back if you stand up for yourself.

If you are being bullied fight back, it works and more often than not it is the only language the bully respects.

Sadb · 02-10-2020 6:34pm

I had a very recent experience with a bully. He was my new boss who took over the place I worked.

A complete lack of empathy was one of the early signs. For example he wanted me to go a week in hand with 2 days notice (I had worked here for 22 years) I had to get the WRC involved to inform him that this was completely illegal but he simply could not fathom why I wouldn’t go a week in hand. Even when I explained that I had a family to feed and bills to pay he still couldn’t see it.

Standing up to him only made things worse for me. He pitted other employees against me, changed passwords on systems I needed to access, completely prevented me from actually doing my job.

He believed he was gods gift and that I must be the only person in the world that didn’t like him. We had a health inspection due to a complaint and he told me after that he knew it was me that reported him-I didn’t. But he simply could not see how anyone else could have an issue with the way he did things so it had to be me in his mind.

He often paid my wages late or paid me less wages. Constantly monitoring us on CCTV. He was constantly intruding on your personal space too.

He is a complete idiot, has no clue how to run a business, has zero social skills and thinks he is the best person to ever live. As Carly Simon would say- he wouldn’t even know this post is about him!

gozunda · 02-10-2020 6:44pm

They do. They also know they are pr*cks.

Funnily enough so does everyone else.

Strumms · 02-10-2020 6:52pm

Interesting, did he ever tell you either in email or personally that he was monitoring you or colleagues using CCTV ? It may be illegal if your employer is constantly or routinely monitoring you performance on cctv. The legislation is worded in quite a deliberately vague fashion though which is a head scratcher, almost seems contradictory... but they should not be doing it...

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/data_protection_at_work/surveillance_of_electronic_communications_in_the_workplace.html

“For example, using CCTV to detect intruders, vandals or thieves may be reasonable. However, using CCTV to constantly monitor employees would be intrusive and would only be justified in special circumstances.“

Sadb · 02-10-2020 7:01pm

Strumms wrote: »

Interesting, did he ever tell you either in email or personally that he was monitoring you or colleagues using CCTV ? It may be illegal if your employer is constantly or routinely monitoring you performance on cctv. The legislation is worded in quite a deliberately vague fashion though which is a head scratcher, almost seems contradictory... but they should not be doing it...

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/data_protection_at_work/surveillance_of_electronic_communications_in_the_workplace.html

“For example, using CCTV to detect intruders, vandals or thieves may be reasonable. However, using CCTV to constantly monitor employees would be intrusive and would only be justified in special circumstances.“

Ya, I have evidence of it as he would often text into his work WhatsApp group things like “could you move the box by the back door” etc. I did look where to make a complaint but it seems impossible unless you actually want to pay a solicitor to sue him!

Strumms · 02-10-2020 7:16pm

Sadb wrote: »

Ya, I have evidence of it as he would often text into his work WhatsApp group things like “could you move the box by the back door” etc. I did look where to make a complaint but it seems impossible unless you actually want to pay a solicitor to sue him!

He could probably claim he saw the box there himself earlier in fact too. So unless he actually WhatsApp’d.... “lads I’m looking at cctv here, can you move the box I asked you not to leave it there ”... or “lads, that was an extra 5 minutes over your break time, I’ve got you on camera let’s keep it to 20 minutes”... you could actually take that evidence...

Too, if he said.., “lads, no football in the warehouse we talked about that”... you could be smart and say... “we wernt”... which he’d no doubt reply with “ ehhh I’m watching you on camera”....

Gotta give him enough rope, get him complacent like you expect it.

cj maxx · 02-10-2020 7:21pm

A bully is always one , and they know it imo.
The only things that change, depending on circumstance, are the victims

Strumms · 02-10-2020 10:32pm

cj maxx wrote: »

A bully is always one , and they know it imo.
The only things that change, depending on circumstance, are the victims

100%

They know it, but they always try to publicly justify that behavior. Twist the purpose of their behavior....Be it in a peer group, management team.. sports team... it’s always floated as being for the greater good of things...

When it was rife in an old job we’d get... “ look, I’m saying this for the benefit of xx person AND everyone..”

I asked, “well if speaking like this about and to people is something you think is for our benefit you might want to go back to management school or dig out the manual and show us the paragraph that advocates talking to and about people like that”... fella was suitably less vocal for several meetings but did have to be reminded and ego checked occasionally. 12 years a supervisor and overlooked for promotion to manager 3 times.... staff never had his back which must have been a nice feeling, slowly management ostracized him too when he played hangman with them to boost his career to the point of him always dining alone at lunch.. to just being alone, in every aspect of his work life, I almost began felling sorry for him. :eek: almost !:D

auspicious · 02-10-2020 10:49pm

Some act out as a consequence of their environment in order to relieve the pressure they're under, so by seemingly, mistakingly, improving their mental state. They can be born a sociopath or made into one. They can also be born a psychopath from which there is usually no resolution .

FGR · 02-10-2020 10:54pm

To me the worst kind of bully is the one who colleagues and management think is the soundest person on earth but treats one or two people like garbage. Those few people are afraid to say anything because they know they won't be believed.

I remember one manager suggesting that a person grow a thicker skin. I objected but they couldn't understand how that person saw the bully as anything but a sound guy.

I also can't help but notice that bullying policies in workplaces aren't worth the paper they're written on. Often it's the bullied person who has to leave the job while the bullied stays.

Very sad and infuriating that we as a supposed intelligent and learned species can't even Co operate without some hidden desire to demean others.

jmlad2020 · 02-10-2020 11:05pm

Laughing with Me wrote: »

You know the way we all hear people talking about bullying? Well, I have to wonder what do bullies think when they hear all this? It must make it even more funny to them that they aren't getting caught. So does this make them quietly gloat to themselves? Or maybe they don't know they're bullies, and this could cause them to instead think back to a time when they were bullied! Or maybe they're thinking something like "well at least the person I bullied definitely deserved it".

No the majority of bullies don't but some probably do and continue to bully. Some self confessed nice people are bullies and they are oblivious to their actions.

pgj2015 · 02-10-2020 11:15pm

FGR wrote: »

To me the worst kind of bully is the one who colleagues and management think is the soundest person on earth but treats one or two people like garbage. Those few people are afraid to say anything because they know they won't be believed.

I remember one manager suggesting that a person grow a thicker skin. I objected but they couldn't understand how that person saw the bully as anything but a sound guy.

I also can't help but notice that bullying policies in workplaces aren't worth the paper they're written on. Often it's the bullied person who has to leave the job while the bullied stays.

Very sad and infuriating that we as a supposed intelligent and learned species can't even Co operate without some hidden desire to demean others.

I remember a lecturer in college who i sat in on a few of his lectures, the guy was a complete a$shole, roaring at people and trying to make fun of them, bullying first years more than other years. ignorant thick man. i remember saying it to a guy in the class, "ah I think hes hilarious" no hes not hes a c**t.

Stovepipe · 03-10-2020 12:42am

Stovepipe wrote: »

worked for me. I was getting bullied by the same guy in class,over a long time, who had a different face to other people. Until he challenged me to a fight. I was a real weed but this time, I clocked him with my schoolbag and landed a few more digs and ran while he was stunned. he never bothered me after that.

I'm 54 now and that happened when i was 13 and I still think about it to his day, so that's the effect it has.He actually was a bright guy but regarded bullying me as just a normal part of his day. I'd punch him hard in the face if I met him now , that's how much it has affected me,and Im not a violent man.

Do bullies know they're bullies?

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