Course Rankings by Slope Rating

01-10-2020 3:18pm #1

With the new Slope Ratings released for each course I thought it would be a good idea to compile a table with the slope rating of each course. Will enable us to see how each course rates against the others and whether we agree with it or not.

Please update the table with the slope rating of your club off the back tees and we will see how many we can get.

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
The Heritage|147|74|76.7
Mount Juliet|142|72|75.6
Faithlegg|137|72|73.2
Fermoy|136|70|70.8
Castleknock|135|72|73.9
Co. Meath|135|73|73.4
Tramore|135|72|73
Birr|134|70|72.3
Portmarnock Links|132|71|75.2
Douglas|132|72|72.9
Fota Island|131|71|73.5
Youghal|131|71|72.1
Craddockstown|128|72|72.4
Stackstown Gate|128|72|71.8
Balbriggan|127|72|72.4
Royal Curragh|127|72|71.7
Castlebar|126|72|71.4
Stackstown Cottage|125|71|70
Elmgreen|122|70|69.5
Corballis|112|66|65.5

OEP · 01-10-2020 3:21pm

Where does one go to get the rating?

xgronkjabv6pcl · 01-10-2020 3:26pm

OEP wrote: »

Where does one go to get the rating?

https://ncrdb.usga.org/

mike12 · 01-10-2020 4:05pm

Hadlee Pitiful Mind wrote: »

https://ncrdb.usga.org/

I'm not sure that's the official ranking, my club was in there before they did the rating.

xgronkjabv6pcl · 01-10-2020 4:11pm

mike12 wrote: »

I'm not sure that's the official ranking, my club was in there before they did the rating.

Unsure, I asked another poster on a different thread whether the above was different to that which the club was given.

They said no but obviously that doesn't mean it won't differ.

prawnsambo · 01-10-2020 4:15pm

mike12 wrote: »

I'm not sure that's the official ranking, my club was in there before they did the rating.

Before the rating was done or before it was issued? Because mine was in there before it was issued and it's exactly the same.

Seve OB · 01-10-2020 4:17pm

Exactly wrote: »

With the new Slope Ratings released for each course I thought it would be a good idea to compile a table with the slope rating of each course. Will enable us to see how each course rates against the others and whether we agree with it or not.

Please update the table with the slope rating of your club off the back tees and we will see how many we can get.

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
Balbriggan|127|72|72.4

it there only one set of tees at balbriggan?

CalamariFritti · 01-10-2020 4:23pm

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
Tramore|135|72|73

Sounds quite tough, not sure what to make of it.

But when comparing to nearby courses it seems to fit. Easier than Mt Juliet, a tad tougher than Kilkenny & Gowran. Tougher than other Waterford courses except Faithlegg which is a tad tougher off the blues and a tad easier off the whites.

Sounds about right.

A bit tougher than Fota, that I don't know about. Maybe with back tees in Fota they don have the actual Irish Open tees. Cant see it being easier from back there than Tramore.

Edit Didn't notice the back tees thing first

PARlance · 01-10-2020 4:24pm

Seve OB wrote: »

it there only one set of tees at balbriggan?

Only one set of back tees, and that's what he clearly asked for.

PARlance · 01-10-2020 4:27pm

Castlebar, Blues, Par 72, Slope Rating 126, Course Rating 71.4

On the phone OP so can't update table.

Skyfloater · 01-10-2020 4:47pm

I don't know anything about how slope ratings are done, but what relevance would knowing the rating off the back tees be to most people who play off the whites/greens?

CalamariFritti · 01-10-2020 4:49pm

True, we play off the back tees maybe 3 or 4 times a year except for matches. Opens always whites.

eoghan104 · 01-10-2020 5:01pm

Castleknock 135 72 73.9

Higher than I expected, I suppose this means my handicap will be lower for most other courses?

xgronkjabv6pcl · 01-10-2020 5:26pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
Tramore|135|72|73

Sounds quite tough, not sure what to make of it.

But when comparing to nearby courses it seems to fit. Easier than Mt Juliet, a tad tougher than Kilkenny & Gowran. Tougher than other Waterford courses except Faithlegg which is a tad tougher off the blues and a tad easier off the whites.

Sounds about right.

A bit tougher than Fota, that I don't know about. Maybe with back tees in Fota they don have the actual Irish Open tees. Cant see it being easier from back there than Tramore.

Edit Didn't notice the back tees thing first

This rating is interesting. I had a discussion a few weeks ago regarding Faithlegg vs Tramore in terms of difficulty.

My own opinion as a higher handicapper was that Faithlegg was more difficult for me.

I felt I put myself in more difficult spots in Faithlegg. They were in total disagreement that Tramore was much more difficult.

No reference to tees at all.

mike12 · 01-10-2020 5:58pm

The harder the course is it the bigger the difference between par and the course rating?
So par 72 course rating 76 Is harder than par 72 rating 71.

paulos53 · 01-10-2020 6:07pm

mike12 wrote: »

The harder the course is it the bigger the difference between par and the course rating?
So par 72 course rating 76 Is harder than par 72 rating 71.

This seems to be the best way to compare the difficulty of courses. Course rating is based off the expected scores of scratch players so it certainly a good indicator of difficulty for low handicap players

prawnsambo · 01-10-2020 6:33pm

mike12 wrote: »

The harder the course is it the bigger the difference between par and the course rating?
So par 72 course rating 76 Is harder than par 72 rating 71.

But course rating doesn't come into the equation when calculating a course handicap for a player playing that course. It only comes into effect when calculating their handicap index after they've played it.

Golfgraffix · 01-10-2020 7:40pm

eoghan104 wrote: »

Castleknock 135 72 73.9

Higher than I expected, I suppose this means my handicap will be lower for most other courses?

Very surprised at that, I would have thought that of the really good Dublin courses that Castleknock was one of the easier. I really like the course but would never Have thought it was a tough course at all.

My own home course (Portmarnock Links) is 129 off the whites

J

01-10-2020 7:50pm

Seve OB wrote: »

it there only one set of tees at balbriggan?

No. I said medal tees in the post to compare off the back tees.

Macker1 · 01-10-2020 7:54pm

My Club is as follows

County Meath 135 73 73.4

How does the ratings work ?

hurleronditch · 01-10-2020 8:19pm

Skyfloater wrote: »

I don't know anything about how slope ratings are done, but what relevance would knowing the rating off the back tees be to most people who play off the whites/greens?

Well I guess to find what is the “hardest” round of golf that could be played in Ireland? You’d imagine BallyB, Portrush, RCD or somewhere like that off the tips would be the hardest

Be interesting to find the easiest as well. Royal Shlievenamon off the ladies must be fairly low, but there’s loads of 18 flags in a field courses around the country too

gypsy79 · 01-10-2020 8:28pm

Macker1 wrote: »

My Club is as follows

County Meath 135 73 73.4

How does the ratings work ?

The rating is used to convert your handicap index to a playing handicap

So lets say your handicap is 12 then your playing handicap on your home course will be 14.33 [12*135/113] rounded to 14

Strawberry HillBilly · 01-10-2020 8:33pm

Birr GC 134, 70, 72.3

thewobbler · 01-10-2020 8:38pm

That seems exceptionally high for Castleknock. Is there a medal set of tees that are only reachable by helicopter?

gypsy79 · 01-10-2020 8:40pm

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Very surprised at that, I would have thought that of the really good Dublin courses that Castleknock was one of the easier. I really like the course but would never Have thought it was a tough course at all.

My own home course (Portmarnock Links) is 129 off the whites

J

I would strongly agree with you. I was shocked

My scores in castleknock (average 94.7)

Date Score
Jul 20, 2019 98 (29)
Jul 29, 2018 90 (36)
Jul 08, 2017 89 (35)
Oct 15, 2016 94 (35)
Apr 30, 2016 96 (38)
Oct 25, 2014 102 (30)
Jul 27, 2014 94 (37)

Versus

Portmarnock Links (Average 101)

Date Score
Feb 22, 2020 105 (21)
Dec 07, 2019 100 (26)
Feb 23, 2019 95 (32)
Nov 25, 2018 104 (23)

Thats 7 shots plus another 1 for par been lower

There are some massive anomalies. Enniscrone below. Yellows does not make it that much easier

Tee Name Gender Par Course Rating Bogey Rating Slope Rating
Blue M 73 73.5 96.5 124
White M 73 72.8 95.4 122
Yellow M 73 71.1 92.2 114

prawnsambo · 01-10-2020 8:45pm

The highest slope rating available under WHS is 155 afaik, the lowest is 55.

Highest I've come across so far is Mount Juliet at 142 on the back tees.

paulos53 · 01-10-2020 8:49pm

The reason some courses have higher slope ratings than expected for their difficulty is because slope rating is not a very good indicator of course difficulty

From the FAQs on golfnet

Does a higher Slope Rating indicate a difficult course?

No - It is the Course Rating which indicates course difficulty. The Slope rating indicates the relative difficulty of the course between the scratch player and the bogey player

gypsy79 · 01-10-2020 8:55pm

paulos53 wrote: »

The reason some courses have higher slope ratings than expected for their difficulty is because slope rating is not a very good indicator of course difficulty

From the FAQs on golfnet

But it is a kind of difficulty rating. They both need to be looked at together

Course rating versus par tells us difficulty for a par golfer

Rating tells us how much more difficult the course is for a bogie golfer relative to a par golfer

hammerdub · 01-10-2020 8:59pm

gypsy79 wrote:

The rating is used to convert your handicap index to a playing handicap

gypsy79 wrote:

So lets say your handicap is 12 then your playing handicap on your home course will be 14.33 [12*135/113] rounded to 14

I'm also in county Meath handicap 23 . How does your last best 8 cards work out. Also what's the 113 in the above example.

CalamariFritti · 01-10-2020 9:00pm

mike12 wrote: »

The harder the course is it the bigger the difference between par and the course rating?
So par 72 course rating 76 Is harder than par 72 rating 71.

Course rating is how the course is expected to play for a scratch golfer. Then there is the bogey rating which is what the course is expected to play for a bogey golfer. The definition has a bogey golfer at +21. You would think its +18 but they set it at +21.

Slope is a function of those 2 values.
Say course A is a par 72 and has a CR of 72 and a BR of 93 and you call that average. Then you have course B with a par 72 and CR of 72 and a BR of 96. Both courses play the same for a scratch golfer but course B is harder for a bogey golfer. In this case course B has a higher slope.

You could say Slope is an expression of how much harder (or softer) a course plays for a bogey golfer over a scratch golfer. A neutral slope rate is 113 by definition.

The exact formula is (BR - CR) * 5.381 = Slope. So for Tramore (blues) it would be (98.1 - 73) *5.381 = 135

gypsy79 · 01-10-2020 9:02pm

113 is considered the golf course of average rating

Your handicap might come down but your playing handicap might be the same. The rest is complicated

prawnsambo · 01-10-2020 9:02pm

paulos53 wrote: »

The reason some courses have higher slope ratings than expected for their difficulty is because slope rating is not a very good indicator of course difficulty

From the FAQs on golfnet

That's actually funny. "No it's not a measure of difficulty, but the difference in difficulty between two different grades of player"

CalamariFritti · 01-10-2020 9:09pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

The highest slope rating available under WHS is 155 afaik, the lowest is 55.

Highest I've come across so far is Mount Juliet at 142 on the back tees.

And I'd say Mt Juliet off the back tees would be quite beastly. Never played it from there, I find it tough enough off the whites.

gypsy79 · 01-10-2020 9:14pm

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
Elmgreen|122|70|69.5
Corballis |112|66|65.5

prawnsambo · 01-10-2020 9:26pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

And I'd say Mt Juliet off the back tees would be quite beastly. Never played it from there, I find it tough enough off the whites.

Can you think of another one that would be equally hard or harder? I've looked at some of the links courses like RCD, Portrush, Ballyliffin, Lahinch and they're lower.

gypsy79 · 01-10-2020 9:36pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Can you think of another one that would be equally hard or harder? I've looked at some of the links courses like RCD, Portrush, Ballyliffin, Lahinch and they're lower.

The European!

But it is 2 part

So the extra difficulty for it for a bogie golfer would be

(75.9 - 71) + [(135/113) * 18 - 18] = 4.9 + 3.5 = 8.6

versus Mount Juliet

(75.6 - 72) + [(142/113) * 18 - 18] = 3.6 + 4.6 = 8.2

So using both parts of the equation the European is a more difficult golf course than Mount Juliet for a bogie golfer

prawnsambo · 01-10-2020 9:47pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

The European!

But it is 2 part

So the extra difficulty for it for a bogie golfer would be

(75.9 - 71) + [(135/113) * 18 - 18] = 4.9 + 3.5 = 8.6

versus Mount Juliet

(75.6 - 72) + [(142/113) * 18 - 18] = 3.6 + 4.6 = 8.2

So using both parts of the equation the European is a more difficult golf course than Mount Juliet for a bogie golfer

Well actually Portmarnock comes in as the highest I've found so far. They've a bewildering collection of tees/courses, but Blue - Red/Blue at 77.1 and 146 looks like the hardest. But there's also Red - Blue at 78 and 144.

I take the simplistic approach with difficulty. If it has a higher slope rating, then I'll get a higher handicap. If it were easier I'd have less shots.

gypsy79 · 01-10-2020 9:53pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well actually Portmarnock comes in as the highest I've found so far. They've a bewildering collection of tees/courses, but Blue - Red/Blue at 77.1 and 146 looks like the hardest. But there's also Red - Blue at 78 and 144.

I take the simplistic approach with difficulty. If it has a higher slope rating, then I'll get a higher handicap. If it were easier I'd have less shots.

Yes but you got to remember that the course rating is now what your handicap will be calculated off

CalamariFritti · 01-10-2020 10:01pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Can you think of another one that would be equally hard or harder? I've looked at some of the links courses like RCD, Portrush, Ballyliffin, Lahinch and they're lower.

I dont know. I only played half a dozen links and only one of them more than once or twice. None of the ones that people say are really difficult like Lahinch or European. The ones I played I found playable enough. Not beating my handicap first time out but not coming home thinking wow that was scary either.

I have gaps on my parkland cv too.

Toughest I played is probably Mt Juliet. Heritage was a slog too in damp November weather.

Edit: I'm not wrong. Just looked The Heritage up and it has 147. Off the whites still 142.

prawnsambo · 01-10-2020 10:08pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Yes but you got to remember that the course rating is now what your handicap will be calculated off

Only after you play the course. I'll already have been given (or taken) shots on my handicap based on the slope rating. The effect on my handicap index will also be affected by the slope rating - the higher it is, the lower my score differential - this is also affected by the course rating. But the slope rating has the most effect - on course handicap and on your handicap index after you play.

In theory, that calculation is supposed to 'balance out' the difference in difficulty so that you end up (if you play roughly to your handicap) with a relatively stable handicap index.

xgronkjabv6pcl · 01-10-2020 10:10pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I dont know. I only played half a dozen links and none of the ones that I am told are really difficult like Lahinch or European. The ones I played I found playable enough.

I have gaps on my parkland cv too.

Toughest I played is probably Mt Juliet and Heritage was a slog too in damp November weather.

I found the Heritage very difficult a few months ago off green I believe, very tough wind. Difficult course all round.

Bunclody tough off the back tees, decent difference between their tees of 134/130/126.

I think The Curragh is seems a little low @127 off the back. I expected it to be a little higher in light of some ratings I've seen.

prawnsambo · 01-10-2020 10:33pm

Hadlee Pitiful Mind wrote: »

I found the Heritage very difficult a few months ago off green I believe, very tough wind. Difficult course all round.

Bunclody tough off the back tees, decent difference between their tees of 134/130/126.

I think The Curragh is seems a little low @127 off the back. I expected it to be a little higher in light of some ratings I've seen.

The Heritage is 147/142/139 - 76.7/74.7/73.1. Although par is different too - 74/72/71. Greens are the lowest.

So The Heritage is the highest in the country now. Any advance on 147?

CalamariFritti · 01-10-2020 10:46pm

Hadlee Pitiful Mind wrote: »

This rating is interesting. I had a discussion a few weeks ago regarding Faithlegg vs Tramore in terms of difficulty.

My own opinion as a higher handicapper was that Faithlegg was more difficult for me.

I felt I put myself in more difficult spots in Faithlegg. They were in total disagreement that Tramore was much more difficult.

No reference to tees at all.

IMO there isn't much between Tramore and Faithlegg in terms of difficulty but I would have tended towards Tramore. Which makes sense since I never played Faithlegg off the back tees.
I think Tramore is the better course especially the greens and bunkers. Faithlegg bunkers are quite shallow and easy.

xgronkjabv6pcl · 01-10-2020 10:56pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

IMO there isn't much between Tramore and Faithlegg in terms of difficulty but I would have tended towards Tramore. Which makes sense since I never played Faithlegg off the back tees.
I think Tramore is the better course especially the greens and bunkers. Faithlegg bunkers are quite shallow and easy.

I can understand why, I just find Faithlegg has a few spots that get you into quite a bit of trouble. Again possibly a higher handicapper view.

No comparison in greens anyway, I doubt anyone could claim otherwise. I might play Tramore tomorrow so I’ll keep an eye on bunkers, Just not something that has been particularly apparent in the past.

CalamariFritti · 01-10-2020 11:25pm

Hadlee Pitiful Mind wrote: »

I can understand why, I just find Faithlegg has a few spots that get you into quite a bit of trouble. Again possibly a higher handicapper view.

No comparison in greens anyway, I doubt anyone could claim otherwise. I might play Tramore tomorrow so I’ll keep an eye on bunkers, Just not something that has been particularly apparent in the past.

At the moment all bunkers are easy cos special covid rules are in place. No raking atm (like in most other places?) but you can place within 6 inches not nearer the hole and not cleaning the ball. Basically that means you're allowed to tee it up.
Remember that if you play tomorrow especially since its open singles.

But apart from covid Tramore bunkers are different to Faithlegg. Many Faithless bunkers are so shallow its just a chip out. In Tramore you often cant see the player once he's climbed in there.

fullstop · 02-10-2020 12:22am

prawnsambo wrote: »

The highest slope rating available under WHS is 155 afaik, the lowest is 55.

Highest I've come across so far is Mount Juliet at 142 on the back tees.

Killeen Castle 144 off blacks.

Bizarrely Sandy Hills is only 127. European Club is 136. Not sure I agree with those.

02-10-2020 8:27am

Table updated in original post. Will update it every day or so with new information provided.

xgronkjabv6pcl · 02-10-2020 8:49am

Exactly wrote: »

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
The Heritage|147|74|76.7
Faithlegg|137|72|73.2
Castleknock|135|72|73.9
Co. Meath|135|73|73.4
Tramore|135|73|73
Birr|134|70|72.3
Balbriggan|127|72|72.4
Royal Curragh|127|72|71.7
Castlebar|126|72|71.4
Elmgreen|122|70|69.5
Corballis|112|66|65.5

Faithlegg included

*added Curragh too, play it frequently

CalamariFritti · 02-10-2020 8:50am

Nice job, thanks. Tramore par is 72 btw not 73.

Also since it came up quite a bit Mt Juliet and my personal favourite Fota

Club|Slope Rating|Par|Course Rating
Mt Juliet|142|72|75.6
Fota Island|131|71|73.5

Mantis Toboggan · 02-10-2020 9:01am

Craddockstown 72.4 slope 128 par 72

TheRoomWrecker · 02-10-2020 10:07am

Portmarnock Hotel Golf Links - Par 71 Slope 132 course rating 75.2

Course Rankings by Slope Rating

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