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The state of comments online about road traffic deaths and cycling

  • 23-09-2020 4:14pm
    #1
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭


    MODERATOR NOTE: Moved the first 22 posts here to a new thread as few of them relate to speed limits in Dublin and thus off-topic on the 30km/h thread.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/man-hit-by-truck-charleville-5212906-Sep2020/

    This man was killed today. I had a look at the street he was killed on, typical straight road going through a typical car dominated town. We don't know the details but this kind of thing should not be happening in a town centre. If you look at the street here, you'll see it's just a straight road that you could put the foot down on if you wanted, even though it's a town centre. The street should not be designed like this, it should not be possible to floor it on a main street of a town.
    I would guess this man's death could have been avoided if the street wasn't designed purely for cars.

    Also why do Journal commenters only comment on road accident articles if bicycles are involved?


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Comments

  • #2
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/man-hit-by-truck-charleville-5212906-Sep2020/

    This man was killed today. I had a look at the street he was killed on, typical straight road going through a typical car dominated town. We don't know the details but this kind of thing should not be happening in a town centre. If you look at the street here, you'll see it's just a straight road that you could put the foot down on if you wanted, even though it's a town centre. The street should not be designed like this, it should not be possible to floor it on a main street of a town.
    I would guess this man's death could have been avoided if the street wasn't designed purely for cars.

    Also why do Journal commenters only comment on road accident articles if bicycles are involved?
    Firstly, RIP to the pedestrian.

    I would caution against reading too much into that accident for two reasons:
    1. Firstly, and this is the most important, Main St. Charleville comprises part of the main Cork-Limerick road. As such, much of the traffic *in* Charleville has no business there and is only passing through. But a "street" that is serving as a main long distance road can never function effectively as a street. This situation should improve if/when the M20 is built and the town is bypassed. At least then, drivers in the town will be there because they have reason to be there.
    2. We don't know the details of the accident, culpability etc.


  • #3
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    SeanW wrote: »
    Firstly, RIP to the pedestrian.

    I would caution against reading too much into that accident for two reasons:
    1. Firstly, and this is the most important, Main St. Charleville comprises part of the main Cork-Limerick road. As such, much of the traffic *in* Charleville has no business there and is only passing through. But a "street" that is serving as a main long distance road can never function effectively as a street. This situation should improve if/when the M20 is built and the town is bypassed. At least then, drivers in the town will be there because they have reason to be there.
    2. We don't know the details of the accident, culpability etc.

    We don't know the details but I would wager the anti-pedestrian layout of the town is responsible for this man's death. Most towns in Ireland are like this, planning disasters.


  • #4
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,489 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I don't know that you can attribute any of this to planning, rather to a lack of it.

    It's the same lack of planning that has allowed streets in Dublin City to become 2 lane dual carriageways with equivalent design speed limits.


  • #5
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I don't know that you can attribute any of this to planning, rather to a lack of it.

    It's the same lack of planning that has allowed streets in Dublin City to become 2 lane dual carriageways with equivalent design speed limits.

    Lack of planning is what I meant yeah


  • #6
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I'm finding this just ridiculous at this stage. Once again a teenager dies in a horror crash last night, 3 comments on the Journal. No one cares, and it's likely they could have been speeding or drunk. Why aren't the road safety enthusiasts that appear on cycling articles all over these deaths? It's a teenager ffs.


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  • #7
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,846 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I'm finding this just ridiculous at this stage. Once again a teenager dies in a horror crash last night, 3 comments on the Journal. No one cares, and it's likely they could have been speeding or drunk. Why aren't the road safety enthusiasts that appear on cycling articles all over these deaths? It's a teenager ffs.

    Hatred.


  • #8
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Hatred.

    They're clearly hating the wrong people


  • #9
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    We don't know the details but I would wager the anti-pedestrian layout of the town is responsible for this man's death. Most towns in Ireland are like this, planning disasters.
    Just to clarify, are you suggesting the fact that the town's main street is also the main Cork-Limerick road had nothing to do with it? Would it not be relevant that 10,000-20,000 vehicles whose drivers have no business in the town are being forced through it?
    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I'm finding this just ridiculous at this stage. Once again a teenager dies in a horror crash last night, 3 comments on the Journal. No one cares, and it's likely they could have been speeding or drunk. Why aren't the road safety enthusiasts that appear on cycling articles all over these deaths? It's a teenager ffs.
    https://www.thejournal.ie/man-dies-crash-co-mayo-5214360-Sep2020/

    I'm not sure I understand the problem. There were 3 comments, all along the lines of "condolences" and "RIP". Seems perfectly appropriate for a tragedy of this kind.


  • #10
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    SeanW wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand the problem. There were 3 comments, all along the lines of "condolences" and "RIP". Seems perfectly appropriate for a tragedy of this kind.

    Why were there 50+ on the bicycle death last week with many of them blaming the cyclist? The 84 year old pedestrian killed the other day had 3 comments I think.
    How come people aren't going on about motorists they saw speeding or breaking lights, so it's no wonder the teenager died?
    There's no point discussing this with you I know, but I just find the whole thing fascinating, the hatred that is aimed at cyclists.


  • #11
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,489 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    It’s truly fücked up that The Journal leave comments open for stories about deaths. Really inappropriate imo.

    But anyway, this is all off topic.


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  • #12
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    MJohnston wrote: »
    It’s truly fücked up that The Journal leave comments open for stories about deaths. Really inappropriate imo.

    But anyway, this is all off topic.

    I agree, especially when you see how toxic they can get if there's a bicycle involved


  • #13
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Nothing to do with the toxicity that comes from some cyclists then?

    "Funny how two journal commenters witnessed the crash on such a narrow road. I wouldn't be surprised if they're making it up so they can blame the cyclist, that's how f*cked up they are."


  • #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Cyclists don’t help themselves.


  • #15
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Nothing to do with the toxicity that comes from some cyclists then?

    "Funny how two journal commenters witnessed the crash on such a narrow road. I wouldn't be surprised if they're making it up so they can blame the cyclist, that's how f*cked up they are."

    I stand by that, with all the victim blaming that goes on and the hatred for cyclists displayed.
    There was a man on an electric scooter killed last night, again 50+ comments.
    I just don't get why people are so quick to judge if there's a bike or scooter involved, but zero interest if it's just the usual cars killing other motorists or killing pedestrians.
    Anyway this is all off topic, but I would think more 30kp/h areas would save lives.


  • #16
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Cyclists don’t help themselves.

    what do you mean?


  • #17
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    what do you mean?

    He means he once saw a cyclist break a red light hence all other cyclists are fair game for criticism


  • #18
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    He means he once saw a cyclist break a red light hence all other cyclists are fair game for criticism

    And fair game to be run over and killed


  • #19
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,489 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Cyclists don’t help themselves.

    When it comes to road safety, there’s very little cyclists *can* do to help themselves.

    Unfortunately driver education doesn’t really work, for whatever reason, and the Garda have decided to not bother enforcing road laws in general.

    The only things that has a possibility of working in Dublin is car reduction measures.


  • #20
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.thejournal.ie/pedestrian-killed-van-douglas-cork-5215706-Sep2020/

    Another elderly pedestrian killed by a motorist. In a car park ffs. 2 or 3 RIPs should be all we see here.


  • #21
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    MODERATOR NOTE: Moved the first 22 posts here to a new thread as few of them relate to speed limits in Dublin and thus off-topic on the 30km/h thread.


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  • #22
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Lack of planning is what I meant yeah
    Eh it's a 1200 year old city that has evolved with a warren of streets. For the vast majority of that time people couldn't tell you what a car or bicycle is. Blame games are not solutions, even if they make you feel good.


  • #23
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    We don't know the details but I would wager the anti-pedestrian layout of the town is responsible for this man's death. Most towns in Ireland are like this, planning disasters.
    The problem about rants is that they get completely ignored. What exactly is anti-pedestrian? No paths and hills?


  • #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    What's the point of this thread exactly? Using the comments section of road fatality articles on one website to set up another cyclysts v the rest of the world scenario?

    A lot of town mainstreets were designed a long time before cars came along.


  • #25
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,690 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    is_that_so wrote: »
    What exactly is anti-pedestrian? No paths and hills?

    lack of pedestrian crossing, no traffic calming measures put in place


  • #26
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    lack of pedestrian crossing, no traffic calming measures put in place
    Can easily think of at least a dozen places off the top of my head which tick all of these boxes. One street is not the whole country.


  • #27
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What's the point of this thread exactly?

    To discuss what's in the topic title, not just what's in the opening post. There's more than enough demand for such a discussion given that such discussion crops up in a load of other threads.

    If you don't want to discuss such in line with the forum's charter, there's no need to comment.

    -- Moderator


  • #28
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Eh it's a 1200 year old city that has evolved with a warren of streets. For the vast majority of that time people couldn't tell you what a car or bicycle is. Blame games are not solutions, even if they make you feel good.

    You mean you cannot design safe streets in old cities?


  • #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    monument wrote: »
    To discuss what's in the topic title, not just what's in the opening post. There's more than enough demand for such a discussion given that such discussion crops up in a load of other threads.

    If you don't want to discuss such in line with the forum's charter, there's no need to comment.

    -- Moderator

    The title says road traffic deaths And cycling. The topic seems to be road traffic deaths V cycling deaths.
    Poor taste topic in my opinion seeing as you are talking about real tragedies that effect real families and using it as another cyclist agenda thread.


  • #30
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The title says road traffic deaths And cycling. The topic seems to be road traffic deaths V cycling deaths.
    Poor taste topic in my opinion seeing as you are talking about real tragedies that effect real families and using it as another cyclist agenda thread.

    Read the charter: No responding to moderation in-thread.

    The topic is not road traffic deaths V cycling deaths. Cycling deaths are in fact also real tragedies that effect real families.

    -- moderator


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  • #31
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    lack of pedestrian crossing, no traffic calming measures put in place

    Would seem that there was a pedestrian facility within 20 yards and that it wasn't speed as the cause but blind spots on HGVs and pedestrians crossing where it's convenient for them .

    A tragic incident but traffic calming and pedestrian facilities would not likely have had an effect on the circumstances.
    Father of four Eddie Goggin (83) from Beech Avenue, Brindle Hill in Charleville, was crossing Main Street in the town just before 11am on Wednesday when he was struck by a truck.

    Mr Goggin was crossing through the traffic which was stopped and less than 20 yards from a pedestrian crossing when the traffic began to move off and he was fatally injured.

    The emergency services were alerted and paramedics and personnel from Charleville Fire Brigade were quickly on the scene and worked to save Mr Goggin but he was pronounced dead at the scene.


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