Microsoft buying Zenimax/Bethesda

BeerWolf · 21-09-2020 6:00pm #1

[url="https://bethesda.net/en/article/1iLtcvwY6Nb1GeKADyDUEX/why-microsoft-is-the-perfect-fit]LINK[/url]

As the gaming industry transforms from a device-centric era to a player-centric era powered by new technology that provides the freedom to play with friends anywhere on any device, Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) on Monday announced plans to acquire ZeniMax Media, the parent company of Bethesda Softworks, one of the largest, privately held game developers and publishers in the world. Creators of critically acclaimed and best-selling gaming franchises including The Elder Scrolls and Fallout among many others, Bethesda brings an impressive portfolio of games, technology, talent, as well as a track record of blockbuster commercial success, to Xbox. Under the terms of the agreement, Microsoft will acquire ZeniMax Media for $7.5 billion in cash.

It means they'll own Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Doom, Wolfenstein and more.

Wonder if there'll be future implications of time-locked exclusives for the Xbox and PC.

Icyseanfitz · 21-09-2020 6:39pm

bethesda games on release day on game pass on pc would be un****ing believable

degrassinoel · 21-09-2020 6:41pm

7.5 Billion.. they must have massive plans

johnny_ultimate · 21-09-2020 6:59pm

The sheer financials involved here are staggering.

I mean if you work it out as Microsoft earning around €2bn a year from game pass based on current subscriber numbers... that’s like three years worth of subscriptions just to buy Bethesda, not counting the actual development and running costs.

It’s the biggest and most expensive play imaginable, really.

MJohnston · 21-09-2020 7:04pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The sheer financials involved here are staggering.

I mean if you work it out as Microsoft earning around €2bn a year from game pass based on current subscriber numbers... that’s like three years worth of subscriptions just to buy Bethesda, not counting the actual development and running costs.

It’s the biggest and most expensive play imaginable, really.

On that math it’d be an absolute no brainer though!

kingtiger · 21-09-2020 7:14pm

Xbox is less than 10% of Microsoft's total revenues, making roughly $11.4 billion in Fiscal Year 2019, with Zenimax making €500m in 2019.

along with their stable of games and intellectual property, its a major advert for the new xbox release as everything will be available on game pass, this 7.5bn is looking like a sound investment

Sony must not be too happy with the news

Temptamperu · 21-09-2020 7:51pm

Guess i'm buying an Xbox too

OptimusTractor · 21-09-2020 8:45pm

Temptamperu wrote: »

Guess i'm buying an Xbox too

Too play the next Fallout? Think we need an intervention here. You'll thank us in the long run.

Sephiroth_dude · 21-09-2020 9:00pm

Hopefully they fire Hines and that other numpty.

Robert ninja · 21-09-2020 9:53pm

RIP Vulkan in any of these IPs.

johnny_ultimate · 21-09-2020 11:12pm

I’ve no particular interest in most of the Bethesda/Zenimax studios outside Arkane, but that’s partially as a result of years of confused and lazy releases. It’s hard to determine precisely how many of the weak or half-baked games were the result of studios struggling to find something to say, or how much was due to strange corporate decrees (like Fallout 76, or rushing out sequels to diminishing returns).

Which is why I’m curious to see how this plays out. In theory Microsoft won’t be quite as aggressive when it comes to some of the development decisions. Giving these clearly talented people the time and resources they need to work without the same financial pressures could work to everybody’s favour. Obviously acquisitions can go south as well, and there’s always the possibility Microsoft will want to rush games for GamePass. But it’ll be interesting to see what unfolds, and certainly adds some spice to a console generation.

Azza · 22-09-2020 12:33am

Arkane are one of my favorite developers. Deathloop didn't catch my eye at first but once I heard it was Arkane behind it I took a second look and it interests me now. Though I guess you could say they had a misfire with Wolfenstein: Youngblood.

ID Software really knocked it out of the park with Doom Eternal, probably the best FPS game I've ever played. Anything they put out I'll be interested in.

The Evil Within is another game I enjoyed probably more than I should of so I'll keep an eye on that Ghostwire: Tokyo

Fallout has sort of lost its appeal to me though, the next Elder Scrolls I'll consider though, I did enjoy Skyrim back in 2011. wow that's a long time ago.

Gunmonkey · 22-09-2020 12:49am

Hopefully the first thing MS do is Phil Spencer personally going to every computer in Bethesda and deleting the Gamebyro engine by hand. Why they still use it baffles me when far better engines doing the rounds.

wes · 22-09-2020 7:40am

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Hopefully the first thing MS do is Phil Spencer personally going to every computer in Bethesda and deleting the Gamebyro engine by hand. Why they still use it baffles me when far better engines doing the rounds.

Why they don't use id tech is beyond me.

22-09-2020 7:48am

I wonder if the exclusives they are honouring will have the xbox game studios livery at the start :-)

B.A._Baracus · 22-09-2020 10:16am

A shred move by Microsoft and fair play. It deserves a round of applause.

They have bought a company that owns so many relevant gaming ip's and securing them to be Xbox only for the next generation and to game pass. All announced before either next gen console went on sale.

I've read some people think the likes of an elder Scrolls 6 game etc would still come out on ps5 as too much money to be had but I don't see it. Blow your competition away by not releasing it on their platform.

Besides, they've already announced these games for game pass. So even if they had ps5 versions a consumer can be faced with buying a ps5 and forking out 70 euro for elder Scrolls 6 on ps5 or getting it and a ton of other games for 10 euro a month on Xbox.

Nody · 22-09-2020 10:49am

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

A shred move by Microsoft and fair play. It deserves a round of applause.

They have bought a company that owns so many relevant gaming ip's and securing them to be Xbox only for the next generation and to game pass. All announced before either next gen console went on sale.

I've read some people think the likes of an elder Scrolls 6 game etc would still come out on ps5 as too much money to be had but I don't see it. Blow your competition away by not releasing it on their platform.

Besides, they've already announced these games for game pass. So even if they had ps5 versions a consumer can be faced with buying a ps5 and forking out 70 euro for elder Scrolls 6 on ps5 or getting it and a ton of other games for 10 euro a month on Xbox.

They would still release it on PS5 but at a delay to Xbox or simply at the same time as it moves to Xbox live; sign up for $15 and you get this amazing game along with this back catalogue or buy it for $70 for PS5, your call. Add in the console on financing option they are pushing as well and they are really making a deal for parents to get a console "for a cheap monthly fee" kind of proposition for Christmas and no need to buy additional games to it basically and make it a real "subscription" service so to speak with an bundled deal.

Retr0gamer · 22-09-2020 11:02am

I very, very much doubt a new Elder Scrolls will come to Playstation now. It's a major coup for Microsoft to deny Sony such a big game.

Sephiroth_dude · 22-09-2020 11:08am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I very, very much doubt a new Elder Scrolls will come to Playstation now. It's a major coup for Microsoft to deny Sony such a big game.

What hines said about looking at each game on a case by case basis is a load of baloney , we'll never see a elder scrolls or fallout game on playstation again.

Mal-Adjusted · 22-09-2020 11:32am

Lads, Microsoft aren't spending 7 billion to release games for Playstation. The ONLY ones that will be on a Sony console will be the upcoming ones that are already anounced and have deals signed, similar to Wasteland 3 coming to PS4 after inXile was bought my Microsoft.

gizmo · 22-09-2020 11:34am

wes wrote: »

Why they don't use id tech is beyond me.

idTech was never designed with the kind of fully open-world games Bethesda are known for in mind so it wouldn't have been a good fit historically. The more recent iterations of the engine have included changes which could remedy this somewhat but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if they were developing a new engine for the next generation of their games.

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 11:40am

IMO they'd be mad to turn down the profit that releasing Elder Scrolls or Fallout on PlayStation would bring.

My prediction — and I'd put real money down on this one — is that through Game Pass they'll start offering 'early access' to select games. That early access will be about 2-4 weeks ahead of the physical/digital release dates for each game. All the popular franchises will be available on all platforms, but Game Pass will be by far the most attractive way for a majority of gamers to get those games.

Additionally, a further prediction that I'm less willing to bet on (because there are factors Microsoft can't control at play in this one) — Microsoft will try to make Game Pass a cross-platform thing, and they'll bring the same benefits to every platform it's available on.

The amount of profit they could make from Xbox hardware is dwarfed by the potential profitability of Game Pass. This is what they do with their Surface hardware too — it makes a bit of profit by itself, but the core goal is to drive adoption of Microsoft services.

You can see this exact approach across all of their business units — Azure, GitHub, Windows, Office, etc. The big money is in SaaS, and Gaming as a Service is the next big extension of that.

BagheeraBlue · 22-09-2020 11:41am

microsoft want gamepass on everything and that includes playstation

wes · 22-09-2020 11:41am

gizmo wrote: »

idTech was never designed with the kind of fully open-world games Bethesda are known for in mind so it wouldn't have been a good fit historically. The more recent iterations of the engine have included changes which could remedy this somewhat but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if they were developing a new engine for the next generation of their games.

That is a good point. I do hope they have either improved there existing engine big time, or they forked idtech for RPGs.

Retr0gamer · 22-09-2020 11:44am

gizmo wrote: »

idTech was never designed with the kind of fully open-world games Bethesda are known for in mind so it wouldn't have been a good fit historically. The more recent iterations of the engine have included changes which could remedy this somewhat but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if they were developing a new engine for the next generation of their games.

They'll tell us that it's a brand new engine while the game will stink of gamebryo with a new rendering tech.

Would be nice if they put the time into modifying an existing engine to fit an open world game. I mean the time put it to get it working will be saved in QA.

But why should Bethesda care. Fallout 4 was garbage and still reviewed great despite all the bugs as well on top of it.

Also Bethesda games just plain did not work at all on PS3. The frame rate would slowly tank until they were near unplayable by the 50 hour mark and yet they still got amazing reviews.

Why bother when you can get away with it based on Hype alone.

quokula · 22-09-2020 11:50am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

They'll tell us that it's a brand new engine while the game will stink of gamebryo with a new rendering tech.

Would be nice if they put the time into modifying an existing engine to fit an open world game. I mean the time put it to get it working will be saved in QA.

But why should Bethesda care. Fallout 4 was garbage and still reviewed great despite all the bugs as well on top of it.

Also Bethesda games just plain did not work at all on PS3. The frame rate would slowly tank until they were near unplayable by the 50 hour mark and yet they still got amazing reviews.

Why bother when you can get away with it based on Hype alone.

Exactly, Bethesda haven't made a game that wasn't a total mess in a decade or more, but still seem to be living off hype for their brands. MS would do better to rummage around in their IPs and give them to some of the competent developers in their portfolio.

McFly85 · 22-09-2020 11:56am

I think the real win for Microsoft here is the back libraries for these studios becoming available on Gamepass. Sure, exclusivity for a few games will be good for them and they desperately needed to boost their exclusives, but Sony will have their fair share of exclusives too.

There'll be nothing new out from these studios for a while yet anyway, so adding these additional games to Gamepass might start tempting people. I can certainly see it being a hit with parents, 300 on a console and a tenner a month for a massive library of games.

Penn · 22-09-2020 12:00pm

MJohnston wrote: »

IMO they'd be mad to turn down the profit that releasing Elder Scrolls or Fallout on PlayStation would bring.

It's a long-term move rather than short-term. Microsoft have an enormous war chest behind them. They can easily take the hit on the profits releasing the games on PS5 would bring, because the plan is to buy up more studios and properties, increase their share of the market in terms of consoles and Gamepass subscriptions, and then the future profits of releasing games on PS5 aren't as valuable.

The more studios and franchises they can buy up for Gamepass and take away from Playstation, the more attractive Xbox and Gamepass becomes to Playstation users.

Playstation's strength the past generation has been their first-party studios and their exclusives. MS are now buying up studios and existing franchises not just to compete with Playstation on that aspect, but to boost up what their strength has been lately, which is Gamepass. Sony can't compete on the same level as that as they don't have the funding MS has, even with a much higher market share in terms of consoles.

MS can tank the hit of not releasing those games on Playstations.

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 12:12pm

Penn wrote: »

The more studios and franchises they can buy up for Gamepass and take away from Playstation, the more attractive Xbox and Gamepass becomes to Playstation users.

Yeah but what really matters to Microsoft, as I said in my post, is Game Pass. If they can make it as ubiquitous as Netflix or Spotify, on ANY platform, they'll make buckets of money. I genuinely don't think they'll pursue a console exclusivity arrangement in the long-term.

dreamers75 · 22-09-2020 12:16pm

New Vegas 2 ????

recyclops · 22-09-2020 12:17pm

MJohnston wrote: »

IMO they'd be mad to turn down the profit that releasing Elder Scrolls or Fallout on PlayStation would bring.

Thats like saying nintendo are mad for not bringing zelda to PS and Xbox, they just dont have too

MS have it on console and pc, both huge fanbases and together would probably dwarf PS only people.

Think about how much a stick sony fans use exclusives on websites and social media to beat Xbox with, now imagine pulling two of the biggest gaming franchises away from them at least until you can get your own platform on a rival device and make money from that device, you can even then say how the games play better on your own device if it turns out to be the case.

This is massive and really would make me considering picking up a series X only if i had to choose one or the other.

johnny_ultimate · 22-09-2020 12:23pm

It's both an incredibly smart move, but also just a massive corporation throwing their weight around in a way others could not.

It's a cheat code variation of fighting your way up the food chain. Why put the effort into developing studios and series of your own, when you can just spend $7.5 billion to get there? :pac:

B.A._Baracus · 22-09-2020 12:26pm

Penn wrote: »

It's a long-term move rather than short-term. Microsoft have an enormous war chest behind them. They can easily take the hit on the profits releasing the games on PS5 would bring, because the plan is to buy up more studios and properties, increase their share of the market in terms of consoles and Gamepass subscriptions, and then the future profits of releasing games on PS5 aren't as valuable.

The more studios and franchises they can buy up for Gamepass and take away from Playstation, the more attractive Xbox and Gamepass becomes to Playstation users.

Playstation's strength the past generation has been their first-party studios and their exclusives. MS are now buying up studios and existing franchises not just to compete with Playstation on that aspect, but to boost up what their strength has been lately, which is Gamepass. Sony can't compete on the same level as that as they don't have the funding MS has, even with a much higher market share in terms of consoles.

MS can tank the hit of not releasing those games on Playstations.

You are right Penn.
This is a long term move. Personally I don't see any of these games (bar those two that already agreed on ps5 releases) ever coming to the ps5.

They say it's easier to hold a customer than it is to gain a new customer in business. This deal may just secure so many ps5 owners to make the switch.

skerry · 22-09-2020 12:27pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

What hines said about looking at each game on a case by case basis is a load of baloney , we'll never see a elder scrolls or fallout game on playstation again.

I'd say their playing their cards close to their chest for the moment. If they have enough of an install base between the Series X, Series S and the current Xbox One and X then I'd say they'll be more than happy to give 2 fingers to Sony and keep exclusivity on those titles. If the PS5 blitzes Series X sales then you might have a different proposition.

nix · 22-09-2020 12:29pm

My guess is anything that was already in production for the PS4/PS5 will continue, but after that, no more.. Unless they're happy to just whack them with delayed releases.. Hard to tell, they have probably yet to make the decision themselves.. Sales are what will make the decision tbh, so they're right to go with the case by case route, as saying all exclusive from the get go and then changing their mind would just make fanboys mad

Retr0gamer · 22-09-2020 12:33pm

skerry wrote: »

I'd say their playing their cards close to their chest for the moment. If they have enough of an install base between the Series X, Series S and the current Xbox One and X then I'd say they'll be more than happy to give 2 fingers to Sony and keep exclusivity on those titles. If the PS5 blitzes Series X sales then you might have a different proposition.

That kind of ignores the fact that Microsoft also have the PC market where Bethesda games often perform very well sales wise.

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 1:05pm

recyclops wrote: »

Thats like saying nintendo are mad for not bringing zelda to PS and Xbox, they just dont have too

It's not like that at all, seriously! Nintendo are largely a hardware and games company, but that's about it. They have to keep their games exclusive because they want to drive hardware sales.

That is not where Microsoft tend to position themselves. The profit margins on Game Pass are huge compared to hardware, and it's a far more scalable business.

They'll make far more money off of Game Pass as a cross-platform thing than they ever will from low-margin hardware sales.

Retr0gamer · 22-09-2020 1:08pm

You could be right. But I have a feeling you are being massively naïve and are going to be disappointed when these games don't come to playstation.

B.A._Baracus · 22-09-2020 1:15pm

MJohnston wrote: »

They'll make far more money off of Game Pass as a cross-platform thing than they ever will from low-margin hardware sales.

Cross platform?
you saying gamepass should be on PS5? :pac:

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 1:15pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You could be right. But I have a feeling you are being massively naïve and are going to be disappointed when these games don't come to playstation.

Disagree, I think it would be very naïve to think that Microsoft are interested in maintaining the same old console model that's been around for decades, now that we're in the subscription era!

Regardless, I won't be disappointed either way as the XSX will be my first next-gen console

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 1:18pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Cross platform?
you saying gamepass should be on PS5? :pac:

Yeah, I've said it a few times on this thread! And Switch too. And Mac. It's already on Android, and Microsoft clearly wanted it to be on iOS too.

ETA: Not "should be" as I have no skin in the game, but "likely will be" (presuming Sony aren't as onerous as Apple).

B.A._Baracus · 22-09-2020 1:27pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah, I've said it a few times on this thread! And Switch too. And Mac. It's already on Android, and Microsoft clearly wanted it to be on iOS too.

ETA: Not "should be" as I have no skin in the game, but "likely will be" (presuming Sony aren't as onerous as Apple).

Not a chance :pac:
Dude, it'll be a cold day in hell before Sony will allow it's competition to offer GamePass on its platform. In business you do not promote your competition. This is 101 stuff.

Not to even mention Sony have their own subscription based service (ps now) that they will be looking to build up more and gain a more of a market share.

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 1:31pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Not a chance :pac:
Dude, it'll be a cold day in hell before Sony will allow it's competition to offer GamePass on its platform. In business you do not promote your competition. This is 101 stuff.

Not to even mention Sony have their own subscription based service (ps now) that they will be looking to build up more and gain a more of a market share.

And yet that's exactly what EA Play is!

recyclops · 22-09-2020 1:32pm

MJohnston wrote: »

It's not like that at all, seriously! Nintendo are largely a hardware and games company, but that's about it. They have to keep their games exclusive because they want to drive hardware sales.

it was more in relation to MS looking to get the profits of the sony only users. I do get your point in relation to nintendo being forced to sell hardware

Gonzo · 22-09-2020 1:36pm

I had no plans to get an xbox console since I already ordered the PS5 last week but this news is seriously making me consider getting an Xbox Series S just for the Bethesda games and gamespass as Bethesda are one of my favourite developers with such a library of existing games and i'm sure lot more great games in the pipeline which will now unlikely be on Playstation any time soon.

22-09-2020 1:39pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah, I've said it a few times on this thread! And Switch too. And Mac. It's already on Android, and Microsoft clearly wanted it to be on iOS too.

ETA: Not "should be" as I have no skin in the game, but "likely will be" (presuming Sony aren't as onerous as Apple).

They tried and failed to bring it to Nintendo switch due to irreconcilable differences preventing Xbox from (what Phil Spencer called) giving users the full Xbox ecosystem experience.

22-09-2020 1:40pm

Gonzo wrote: »

I had no plans to get an xbox console since I already ordered the PS5 last week but this news is seriously making me consider getting an Xbox Series S just for the Bethesda games and gamespass as Bethesda are one of my favourite developers with such a library of existing games and i'm sure lot more great games in the pipeline which will now unlikely be on Playstation any time soon.

We're also likely to see Series S\X enhancements for the back catalogue that are unlikely to come to PS5.

Penn · 22-09-2020 1:43pm

MJohnston wrote: »

And yet that's exactly what EA Play is!

EA aren't a competitor to Sony, definitely not in the way Microsoft are. And it took a while for Sony to allow EA Access on PlayStation. They're definitely not going to allow Gamepass on it.

McFly85 · 22-09-2020 1:44pm

Not a hope Gamepass is on PlayStation this generation. I expect Sony will look to expand PSNow and the PSPlus collection(which they should really merge into one subscription).

They won’t make first party games available on the service day 1 either, but there should be a more predictable window for when first party games get added.

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 1:47pm

Penn wrote: »

EA aren't a competitor to Sony, definitely not in the way Microsoft are. And it took a while for Sony to allow EA Access on PlayStation. They're definitely not going to allow Gamepass on it.

And if Game Pass is available on PlayStation, then Microsoft aren't really a competitor to Sony anymore in the way they are now either!

If Microsoft dangle Game Pass to Sony and Nintendo as the only way to get the next Elder Scrolls or Fallout onto their hardware, it'd take a very brave executive to say no to that.

Mitch Connor · 22-09-2020 2:00pm

I hope MS don't offer GamePass on PS, and I hope they make all the newly owned IPs exclusive, including any sequels to Deathloop and Ghost Wire.

SOny like to throw their money around to get exclusives, both in game and full third party games, so I would like to see MS just say no Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Doom etc on PS5.

But I can see a situation where *some* of the titles are available on PS - like having Doom exclusive and Wolfenstein cross-plat.

Microsoft buying Zenimax/Bethesda

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