Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

Hego Damask · 19-09-2020 11:20PM

What are they striking about ? that they have to work during all this ?
What do they want ? the whole 20/21 academic year off with full pay ?

lulublue22 · 19-09-2020 11:21PM

Great to see teacher bashing alive and well. I was getting worried there for a while.
Raising concerns is not the same as strike action but what ever you do don’t let reality get in the way of an ill informed rant.

Jim_Hodge · 19-09-2020 11:21PM

Hego Damask wrote: »

What are they striking about ? that they have to work during all this ?
What do they want ? the whole 20/21 academic year off with full pay ?

This

Among the issues of concern are physical distancing in schools, provision of PPE, definition of close contacts as well as testing and the turnaround times for those tests.

There is also concern over the provisions that are being made for high-risk staff members.

The ASTI said IT resources for students and teachers to facilitate remote teaching and learning is also a matter of concern.

lulublue22 · 19-09-2020 11:23PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Looks like the ASTI are ready for striking.

Any link to the ASTI balloting it’s members for strike action or are you on an ill informed solo run ?

Wolf359f · 19-09-2020 11:24PM

Hego Damask wrote: »

What are they striking about ? that they have to work during all this ?
What do they want ? the whole 20/21 academic year off with full pay ?

Among the issues of concern are physical distancing in schools, provision of PPE, definition of close contacts as well as testing and the turnaround times for those tests.

There is also concern over the provisions that are being made for high-risk staff members.

The ballot of ASTI members will also deal with the issue of returning teachers who are "being forced to work precarious contracts and those enduring unequal pay" the union said.

Pay again.... did they not vote to keep their wages at the expense of new recruits during the last recession? Of course there's going to be unequal pay of they voted for it!

Imagine the hundreds of thousands on PUP payment being forced back to work, they would jump on the opportunity.

Wolf359f · 19-09-2020 11:24PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Any link to the ASTI balloting it’s members for strike action or are you on an ill informed solo run ?

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0919/1166253-asti-ballot/

froog · 19-09-2020 11:26PM

growleaves wrote: »

No it hasn't been proven. I've no familiarity with Ivor Cummins though I've heard the name starting from about 2 weeks ago. What I see on this thread is people saying that any outcome is proof of the efficacy of lockdown. So if cases go up or cases go down. Lockdown is a metaphysical assumption.

do you have any idea how close we came to literally overloading our ICUs? after which it would have been choosing who dies like what actually happened in italy. talk to a nurse and ask them are they glad the first lockdown happened. but please don't use the term "metaphysical assumption" or they might slap you.

lulublue22 · 19-09-2020 11:29PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0919/1166253-asti-ballot/

Good - great to see one of the teaching unions has the gumption to call out unsafe practices in our schools. Now if only the INTO and the TUI followed suit.

JJayoo · 19-09-2020 11:34PM

So 500 cases in ireland today?

History Queen · 19-09-2020 11:39PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Pay again.... did they not vote to keep their wages at the expense of new recruits during the last recession? Of course there's going to be unequal pay of they voted for it!

Imagine the hundreds of thousands on PUP payment being forced back to work, they would jump on the opportunity.

They didn't vote to keep their wages at the expense of new recruits. That's just untrue. I'm a teacher, though not in the ASTI.

john_doe. · 19-09-2020 11:41PM

Why hasn't specific lockdowns beside county level taken place .

I.E instead of locking down the whole of Kildare, the infection data is used to co-ordinate a specific town(s) lockdown with de-centralised control.

Couldn't the TDs elected for their region go do something useful like manage local lockdowns and report back to a government.

Instead of cases going from 50,100,250, once it hits a threshold in a specific county , that county is analysed and towns are lockeddown.

There is enough people ringing local radio stations every day complaining. Maybe time should be spent on trying to manage it proactively and with granular control. Its not a big country after all.

Sierra Oscar · 19-09-2020 11:44PM

john_doe. wrote: »

Why hasn't specific lockdowns beside county level taken place .

I.E instead of locking down the whole of Kildare, the infection data is used to co-ordinate a specific town(s) lockdown with de-centralised control.

Couldn't the TDs elected for their region go do something useful like manage local lockdowns and report back to a government.

Instead of cases going from 50,100,250, once it hits a threshold in a specific county , that county is analysed and towns are lockeddown.

There is enough people ringing local radio stations every day complaining. Maybe time should be spent on trying to manage it proactively and with granular control. Its not a big country after all.

Everyone knows their county boundaries, very few would be familiar with their local electoral area so that would surely be a problem from the get go.

Then the geographic area for your local electoral areas is pretty small. I could live in one, my favourite shop could be in a different one and my children might go to school in another. I don't think it would work in practice and would just be too confusing for all involved.

County restrictions are hard enough to manage as it is.

Wolf359f · 19-09-2020 11:47PM

john_doe. wrote: »

Why hasn't specific lockdowns beside county level taken place .

I.E instead of locking down the whole of Kildare, the infection data is used to co-ordinate a specific town(s) lockdown with de-centralised control.

Couldn't the TDs elected for their region go do something useful like manage local lockdowns and report back to a government.

Instead of cases going from 50,100,250, once it hits a threshold in a specific county , that county is analysed and towns are lockeddown.

There is enough people ringing local radio stations every day complaining. Maybe time should be spent on trying to manage it proactively and with granular control. Its not a big country after all.

I'm sorry I wouldn't trust a TD to give a **** about their constituency.
A county councilor is far more in tune with what goes on, mainly as the majority would live in the same constituency and deal with issues daily.

niallo27 · 19-09-2020 11:49PM

froog wrote: »

do you have any idea how close we came to literally overloading our ICUs? after which it would have been choosing who dies like what actually happened in italy. talk to a nurse and ask them are they glad the first lockdown happened. but please don't use the term "metaphysical assumption" or they might slap you.

How close were we, none of the private hospitals were used. Not saying lockdown wasn't needed but saying we were on the verge of collapse or anywhere near what Italy is just incorrect. We are chosing who dies here for months, 58% of the people who died of covid didn't go to hospital, we choose for them to die.

Strumms · 19-09-2020 11:53PM

growleaves wrote: »

They haven't been proven at all. If the cases correlate with assumptions we say 'proven' and if they don't correlate with assumptions we say 'oh people didn't lock down properly'.

Un-falsifiable. No objective criteria. No matter what happens it will be interpreted away.

A host of virologists and epidemiologists disagree with that. I’ll go with them.

froog · 19-09-2020 11:53PM

niallo27 wrote: »

How close were we, none of the private hospitals were used. Not saying lockdown wasn't needed but saying we were on the verge of collapse or anywhere near what Italy is just incorrect. We are chosing who dies here for months, 58% of the people who died of covid didn't go to hospital, we choose for them to die.

at the peak of it, after a massive lockdown, we had about 160 people in ICU due to COVID. right now today, with just 6 cases in ICU we have 277 ICUs free. bear in mind irish ICUs were regularly overloaded before COVID.

Wolf359f · 19-09-2020 11:54PM

niallo27 wrote: »

How close were we, none of the private hospitals were used. Not saying lockdown wasn't needed but saying we were on the verge of collapse or anywhere near what Italy is just incorrect. We are chosing who dies here for months, 58% of the people who died of covid didn't go to hospital, we choose for them to die.

Enough of these lies. Not everyone's best interest is being brought to hospital and not everyone's best interest is being brought to ICU.
The patient and family also have a say.
You make it sounds like our doctors are all Harold Shipmans or something.
There's a massive difference between triaging patients based on resources available (like in Italy at the worse of it) and triaging a patient for the best of their health and comfort.

Ha Long Bay · 20-09-2020 12:00AM

History Queen wrote: »

They didn't vote to keep their wages at the expense of new recruits. That's just untrue. I'm a teacher, though not in the ASTI.

Did they not by voting for the Croke Park agreement?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/who-earns-what-in-teaching-1.538121

"NEW ENTRANTS

With established teachers protected by the Croke Park agreement, new teachers have born the brunt of the cuts to teachers’ pay. Last week the Government formalized a series of cuts for new entrants, in the process creating a two-tier teaching profession.

Under the new rules, new entrants will start at point 4 of the salary scale – €30,702 – but they will not be eligible for qualification allowances. They also have the option of being paid a pensionable allowance of €1,592 for supervision and substitution, which will bring their starting salary to €32,294. To qualify for this supervision and substitution allowance, new entrants will have to provide 12 additional hours a year over and above the existing requirement. Therefore a newly qualified teacher this year has a maximum earning capacity of €32,294 before tax, in contrast to the more than €39,000 that the class of 2010 earned in their first year.

growleaves · 20-09-2020 12:00AM

Strumms wrote: »

A host of virologists and epidemiologists disagree with that. I’ll go with them.

Do they though?

As I said before, NPHET recommend mandatory masks while calling the evidence weak. Which means they believe masking is a useful theory with which to fulfil their remit - it doesn't mean that they're claiming the use of masks is proven. It isn't generally virologists and epidemiologists who make this claim, it is primarily Joe Soaps who crave certainty.

caveat emptor · 20-09-2020 12:01AM

niallo27 wrote: »

In fairness they have done 4 weeks work the poor little sods. They need a break.

Yeah,Some people would love even a few days work if they could get get it.

History Queen · 20-09-2020 12:03AM

john4321 wrote: »

Did they not by voting for the Croke Park agreement?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/who-earns-what-in-teaching-1.538121

"NEW ENTRANTS

With established teachers protected by the Croke Park agreement, new teachers have born the brunt of the cuts to teachers’ pay. Last week the Government formalized a series of cuts for new entrants, in the process creating a two-tier teaching profession.

Under the new rules, new entrants will start at point 4 of the salary scale – €30,702 – but they will not be eligible for qualification allowances. They also have the option of being paid a pensionable allowance of €1,592 for supervision and substitution, which will bring their starting salary to €32,294. To qualify for this supervision and substitution allowance, new entrants will have to provide 12 additional hours a year over and above the existing requirement. Therefore a newly qualified teacher this year has a maximum earning capacity of €32,294 before tax, in contrast to the more than €39,000 that the class of 2010 earned in their first year.

Younger teachers pay wss altered after the croke park agreement was agreed. It wasn't part of the agreement. The agreement however forbade industrial action for the duration of the agreement.

Edit: the idea of older teachers selling out their younger colleagues is a common misconception. It is just that though, entirely false, like all misconceptions.

Strumms · 20-09-2020 12:06AM

growleaves wrote: »

Do they though?

As I said before, NPHET recommend mandatory masks while calling the evidence weak. Which means they believe masking is a useful theory with which to fulfil their remit - it doesn't mean that they're claiming the use of masks is proven. It isn't generally virologists and epidemiologists who make this claim, it is primarily Joe Soaps who crave certainty.

People obviously crave certainty and reliable information, that’s natural in times such as we are experiencing.

But virologists and epidemiologists have made these claims. Worldwide.

caveat emptor · 20-09-2020 12:09AM

Fair point

https://twitter.com/ailbhepheigin/status/1307434845791047682?s=21

WoollyRedHat · 20-09-2020 12:10AM

The amount of people talking rubbish in this thread is astonishing and some people are clearly trying to rile others up with no substance while ironically trying attack other people for not backing up with facts.
Even trying to start yet another Public Vs Private argument, be more original..

Wolf359f · 20-09-2020 12:22AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Fair point

https://twitter.com/ailbhepheigin/status/1307434845791047682?s=21

In the past 2 weeks 52 HCRW's contracted covid in work, I'd love to see the number of teachers who caught it at work.

Every worker in this country is at risk unfortunately, there's no zero risk environment.

caveat emptor · 20-09-2020 12:22AM

Weak.....

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1307349172266438658?s=21

caveat emptor · 20-09-2020 12:24AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

In the past 2 weeks 52 HCRW's contracted covid in work, I'd love to see the number of teachers who caught it at work.

Every worker in this country is at risk unfortunately, there's no zero risk environment.

There’s no zero risk crossing the road. What’s your point ?

niallo27 · 20-09-2020 12:24AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Enough of these lies. Not everyone's best interest is being brought to hospital and not everyone's best interest is being brought to ICU.
The patient and family also have a say.
You make it sounds like our doctors are all Harold Shipmans or something.
There's a massive difference between triaging patients based on resources available (like in Italy at the worse of it) and triaging a patient for the best of their health and comfort.

What lies, I never said it was a lack of resources. 58% is a pretty huge number would you not agree. How many of these patients were end of life patients.

History Queen · 20-09-2020 12:25AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

In the past 2 weeks 52 HCRW's contracted covid in work, I'd love to see the number of teachers who caught it at work.

Every worker in this country is at risk unfortunately, there's no zero risk environment.

Don't think they are publishing numbers of teachers.

thelad95 · 20-09-2020 12:27AM

With all the whining the GAA community did for months on end about how thousands of supporters could be let into GAA grounds with social distancing measures in place, they seriously seriously let themselves down in Limerick this evening.....

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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