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Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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Comments

  • #6062
    Paddygreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Paddygreen


    is_that_so wrote: »
    152K in listeners is music to the ears of advertisers and the station!

    If he is not on message he needs to go, simple as that. There has to be some standards in Irish journalism, and in times of crisis it is very unpatriotic to cast doubt upon your leaders. Kenny out, sack him.


  • #6063
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭the corpo


    So, the little we can say right now is that the outbreak data doesn't support closing the pubs and restaurants. To not lose the will of the people, NPHET need to say what evidence they do have that is prompting this recommendation.

    I assume it's data from the contact tracing, and the only explanation that makes sense to me is they're seeing a lot of cases from people heading to house parties after leaving a pub/restaurant. So, they can either leave the pubs open 24/7 or close them in the desparate hope it cuts down the amount of impromptu gatherings?

    But, that I've seen, they're saying house gatherings are the worry, but not specifying whether it's after hours house parties, or just general family get-togethers, etc. They need to be utterly clear.

    I've not doubted NPHET's advice before, but if they don't very definitively explain the rationale behind this and find Government disregarding their advice on the strength of today's outcry, they'll hugely lose whatever goodwill and trust remains, which will be a disaster in the long term.


  • #6064
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,045 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    So there's this excerpt in an RTE news article:
    He said that the public experts have identified that spread occurs where people meet, including pubs and restaurants.
    But yet their own figures contradicts that it actually happened in restaurants. "Can" and "has" are different things and it's important when making decisions that have big consequences for some.

    Unless of course, as I've seen now suggested, their contact tracing is crap and that's the reason they're panicking. Going back only 48 hours only.


  • #6065
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Boggles wrote: »
    TBF no one on here as far as I am aware decided to shove a million people back indoors on the pretence that biological humans under the age of 19 don't really get the virus and if they do they don't really spread it indoors.

    Or will we just keep pretending that 3 weeks after the schools opened Dublin is going into restrictions at midnight and one has absolutely nothing to do with the other?

    Its behaviour like that highlighted by the group in the Offaly hotel that has Dublin going into restrictions. 20 people socialising in a group of 40, bringing it back, likely to environments where they were carrying on with similar behaviour. At this stage that group alone must be responsible for 100+ infections.


  • #6066
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    People go back to work.
    Kids go back to school.
    Covid cases rise.

    Solution: Close the restaurants.

    What could be simpler?


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  • #6067
    Scuid Mhór
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Scuid Mhór


    Whatever is announced today won’t be enough to stem the flow of infection cases. This level 3, level 4 strategy is ridiculous. We need clarification on whether we are trying to live with covid or eliminate covid, we need clarification on what an acceptable rate of covid cases is. In my opinion we should be going back to a level 5 lockdown and try to emulate the New Zealand/Australia models. With each passing day I’m getting closer to running for politics.


  • #6068
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Its behaviour like that highlighted by the group in the Offaly hotel that has Dublin going into restrictions. 20 people socialising in a group of 40, bringing it back, likely to environments where they were carrying on with similar behaviour. At this stage that group alone must be responsible for 100+ infections.
    Don't know if this has been posted but it's exactly this.


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40050800.html


  • #6069
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Can't say I've experienced that in any of the countries I've worked in and it sounds like acute germophobia but each to their own.

    I don’t believe it is unreasonable for people to ask that colleagues with symptoms of a virus stay at home. It is good manners.


  • #6070
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Scuid Mhór wrote: »
    Whatever is announced today won’t be enough to stem the flow of infection cases. This level 3, level 4 strategy is ridiculous. We need clarification on whether we are trying to live with covid or eliminate covid, we need clarification on what an acceptable rate of covid cases is. In my opinion we should be going back to a level 5 lockdown and try to emulate the New Zealand/Australia models. With each passing day I’m getting closer to running for politics.

    Exactly. More pushing down the road, reduce cases for awhile, open back up, cases up again. A poster on here a few days ago posted something to effect that different countries may end up with similar cases/deaths per capita over a while year, just that some countries may front load and others more spaced out.


  • #6071
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Pat Kenny pushing for a midnight curfew, with fines if you’re caught out on the street. Jesus

    I'd say he's worried about an underlying health issue the way he bangs his drum.


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  • #6072
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ixoy wrote: »

    Unless of course, as I've seen now suggested, their contact tracing is crap and that's the reason they're panicking. Going back only 48 hours only.

    Yes. NPHET have turned a blind eye to pubs / restaurants that were allowed open - ordered to I imagine. But when restrictions come in they are the first to close down, see Kildare and what may happen in Dublin tonight. They also want the opening of the rest of the pubs delayed nation wide.

    Now lets take a look at our contact tracing.

    I'm in the Pub, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Infected but presymptomatic.

    My Symptoms don't show themselves until Wednesday morning when I wake up.

    Contact tracing goes back 48 hours to Monday morning, the pubs don't come into play, the contact tracers do want to know.

    So who ever I might have infected in the pubs, they certainly don't get traced.

    If you don't trace you don't find, you don't link back. That is why the spreadsheet has been stuck on 5 clusters from pubs for 2 months now.


  • #6073
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    ixoy wrote: »
    So there's this excerpt in an RTE news article:

    But yet their own figures contradicts that it actually happened in restaurants. "Can" and "has" are different things and it's important when making decisions that have big consequences for some.

    Unless of course, as I've seen now suggested, their contact tracing is crap and that's the reason they're panicking. Going back only 48 hours only.

    So I will ask the other question that is relevant. Are they asking for names of contacts, or locations over the last period of time. If they are only getting contacts by name, then there's no way for the system to know that as well as meeting Bill and Mary, they also potentially met all the people that were in Mick's restaurant while they had food (and maybe drinks) with Bill and Mary.

    We'd know better if any of the restaurants have had phone calls asking for a list of people in the place at a specific time and date, and my gut instinct is telling me that this isn't happening, as it's not on the radar of the contact tracing system being used at the moment.

    There's more than enough evidence coming from other countries now that there IS a problem with Covid being spread in restaurants, pubs and the like.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #6074
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Scuid Mhór wrote: »
    Whatever is announced today won’t be enough to stem the flow of infection cases. This level 3, level 4 strategy is ridiculous. We need clarification on whether we are trying to live with covid or eliminate covid, we need clarification on what an acceptable rate of covid cases is. In my opinion we should be going back to a level 5 lockdown and try to emulate the New Zealand/Australia models. With each passing day I’m getting closer to running for politics.

    It cannot work. It was said from day 1 it cannot be contained. New Zealand tried anyway thinking they were remote and maybe they could do it but they will fail. They're just dragging out the inevitable. And even f they succeeded temporarily at what price would that come? Build a wall around the country?
    Its no coincidence that the countries with the strictest lockdowns have the highest spikes now. The only thing that will end this is community immunity and while there is no vaccine yet there is only one way of getting to that point.

    Just my opinion of course but its the way it worked for aeons for all species with few exceptions due to medical progress.


  • #6075
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,106 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    polesheep wrote: »
    I'd say he's worried about an underlying health issue the way he bangs his drum.

    He's 72, that's his underlying condition. Luke O'Neill has him drove daft.


  • #6076
    firemansam4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Boggles wrote:
    TBF no one on here as far as I am aware decided to shove a million people back indoors on the pretence that biological humans under the age of 19 don't really get the virus and if they do they don't really spread it indoors.

    Did I say anyone did?
    And can you link to where they are saying that anyone under the age of 19 don't really get the virus? I've never heard that one.
    What I did hear is they are suggesting that there is evidence the virus does not spread as much in young children.
    Boggles wrote:
    Or will we just keep pretending that 3 weeks after the schools opened Dublin is going into restrictions at midnight and one has absolutely nothing to do with the other?

    You and other posters do not mention that cases started rising rapidly before children went back to school, and there is normally a 2 or 3 week lag when cases start to show.
    Now I'm not saying schools will not have an effect but it's unfair to say the spike is just because schools went back.


  • #6077
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    I don’t believe it is unreasonable for people to ask that colleagues with symptoms of a virus stay at home. It is good manners.
    Few of us have the expertise to guess at that. We've now become hyper vigilant about things we'd have ignored before as minor ailments. I know someone who has had a persistent cough for 30 years and another prone to sudden fits of coughing. Under your regime neither would ever work again!


  • #6078
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Hospital numbers growing as expected. Highest since June.

    https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1306880030870568960?s=20


  • #6079
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    He's 72, that's his underlying condition. Luke O'Neill has him drove daft.

    I don't think age alone is an issue. My 99-year-old aunt had Covid and didn't even know it until she was tested.


  • #6080
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    What I did hear is they are suggesting that there is evidence the virus does not spread as much in young children.

    Not exactly.

    The phrase was it was uncommon for school children to spread the virus to another human being indoors in a school environment, nothing about young children.

    Much like pubs, schools are Covid free zones. Virus just doesn't go in there and spread in that particular indoor environment, it spreads 20 times more in other indoor environments though.

    firemansam4 wrote: »
    .
    Now I'm not saying schools will not have an effect but it's unfair to say the spike is just because schools went back.

    No one said that.


  • #6081
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Boggles wrote: »
    Yes. NPHET have turned a blind eye to pubs / restaurants that were allowed open - ordered to I imagine. But when restrictions come in they are the first to close down, see Kildare and what may happen in Dublin tonight. They also want the opening of the rest of the pubs delayed nation wide.

    Now lets take a look at our contact tracing.

    I'm in the Pub, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Infected but presymptomatic.

    My Symptoms don't show themselves until Wednesday morning when I wake up.

    Contact tracing goes back 48 hours to Monday morning, the pubs don't come into play, the contact tracers do want to know.

    So who ever I might have infected in the pubs, they certainly don't get traced.

    If you don't trace you don't find, you don't link back. That is why the spreadsheet has been stuck on 5 clusters from pubs for 2 months now.

    You are unlikely to have infected anyone in the pub. You don't become infectious as soon as you are exposed. Generally 2 days prior to symptoms, and the evidence is you are most infectious in the 2 days prior and 3 days after symptoms develop


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  • #6082
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    polesheep wrote: »
    I don't think age alone is an issue. My 99-year-old aunt had Covid and didn't even know it until she was tested.
    polesheep wrote: »
    Ok, but explain all the people that have had it and bounced back, including my 97-year-old aunt

    Sounds like she bounced back 2 years into the future.


  • #6083
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,045 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    We'd know better if any of the restaurants have had phone calls asking for a list of people in the place at a specific time and date, and my gut instinct is telling me that this isn't happening, as it's not on the radar of the contact tracing system being used at the moment.
    I'm actually astonished that they're not. I thought that was the whole damn point of taking contact details - for use in contact tracing. Why on earth wouldn't they go back to somewhere like a restaurant which will have contact details to hand? If nothing else, it would be used as evidence either way that restaurants are, or are not, contributing to spread.


  • #6084
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    Boggles wrote: »
    Sounds like she bounced back 2 years into the future.

    New research shows covid knocks years off you.


  • #6085
    Mav11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭Mav11


    Quick question, probably been asked before, but is the tracker app proving to be of any help at all?


  • #6086
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Deleted User wrote: »
    YGenerally 2 days prior to symptoms

    It's generally thought 2-3 days, I know this because you told me.

    It can be up to 4.


  • #6087
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,394 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    People go back to work.
    Kids go back to school.
    Covid cases rise.

    Solution: Close the restaurants.

    What could be simpler?

    Cases rise within localities, as evident at the moment.

    You open up everything and you'll have people from all over the city, including the current hotspots, converge into the city centre, mingle and head back out again.

    That's the simplicity of it.


  • #6088
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    He just qualified and then left to become a politician .
    Sure, he has medical knowledge but he would be classed as a " baby doctor" by most!
    He is a politician , and a 'cute ' one at that and I am not talking about looks here .
    As such I would take what he says with a very large pinch of Sodium Chloride;)

    He didn't just qualify as a doctor and leave. He completed six years in practice and doing GP specialist training after qualifying. He got his MICGP exams and completed the GP training scheme.

    I've never heard the term "baby doctor" used.


  • #6089
    DangerScouse
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 466 ✭✭DangerScouse


    Boggles wrote: »
    Four-star Offaly hotel closes temporarily after up to 20 guests diagnosed with coronavirus

    They must have all touched the same petrol pump handle.

    But but but it doesn't spread in hotels or restaurants.


  • #6090
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Mav11 wrote: »
    Quick question, probably been asked before, but is the tracker app proving to be of any help at all?

    It’s curious that very little information is forthcoming on the usefulness, or otherwise, of the app.
    There are ads on radio and TV every 10 minutes about keeping ‘Covid-safe’, but no mention of people being advised to download the app.
    If the app were successful, they would be shouting it from the rooftops. The fact that there is no mention of it leads me to think that it is practically useless.


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  • #6091
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    DangerScouse wrote: »
    But but but it doesn't spread in hotels or restaurants.
    Only when people behave badly!


This discussion has been closed.
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