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Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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  • #6002
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    Been catching up again, keeping up to date with this thread is hard work, and depressing at the same time.

    What's become clear is that too many posters in this thread are clearly only here or watching RTE, if they were watching anything from outside of Ireland, there might be some understanding of why NPHET are looking to take the action they are.

    2 specific examples from the UK today.

    Part of South Wales has been locked down, and a significant part of the reason for that the cases have significantly spiked upwards, as the result of the actions of 2 pubs, (now closed) a rugby club and a social trip out by coach on effectively a pub crawl to the races at Doncaster, which they never got to as the pub crawl went so well!

    The other case was the North East, the leader of the authority gave an interview on Sky News this morning, asking for Government help, as their tracing process had found 3 areas that meant they needed to lock down to reduce the case load.

    The first problem was the number of cases coming from Pubs and hospitality.

    The second was the number of cases coming from "house parties".

    The third problem area was the number of cases happening as a result of outdoor sports activities.

    Looks to me like the problem here is that the tracing system is not actually finding the real reasons, and I find myself thinking that's because the interview process is not asking the questions in a way that gets the real answers, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence here this evening about the way that pubs and restaurants are "massaging" the rules.

    Yes, Communions and confirmations have not helped, and although it's not been mentioned here, there have been some schools that in violation of guidelines they were given had combined mass when they restarted.

    Speaking personally, and I know it won't be a popular opinion, the sooner we get organised religion out of the education system, the better it will be for many areas of life.

    Someone's already mentioned the morning coffee meetings that happen after the mums have dropped the kids to school.

    Can't remember if it was in this thread or the Wet pub thread, I mentioned a friend who went into a local wet pub for the first time in a long time, it's been opened by bringing in take away or similar, he walked in, took one look and turned round and walked back out again, the place was rammed, with no separation, people queuing at the bar, and there's plenty of other cases been reported where "the rules" are being seen as flexible guidance.

    At some point, the people at the top have to make the hard decisions of how to get things back under some sort of control, they can't ignore the surge that's happening, and it's clear that the present rules are no longer working, regardless of what level you give them, or how you them modify them to meet the specific situation that's happening on the ground.

    The underfunded and under resourced hospital systems are still not going to be capable of dealing with the sort of overload that happened in places like Italy and Spain, so action now to reduce the increasing trend has to happen to keep the future deaths as low as possible.

    It is that simple. The damage to the economy will be much worse if we end up with the whole country having to go into full level 4 or 5 lockdown, and prevaricating now for too long will make that more likely, far better to go with the changes that are needed, and try to ensure that the PR machine makes the reasons clear, and does whatever it can to get people back on side.

    Golfgate for sure didn't help, for all the well discussed reasons, the lack of clarity this week hasn't been good, and the lack of preparation during the lull over the summer has not been good either, and it's clear that the present track and trace system is not delivering clear results in the time needed, and it's also not working as expected, which means that at some point, there needs to be massive change to make the whole health system truly fit for purpose.

    My OH is involved most years with communions. She says it takes up so much time, its a joke. Take it all out, more time for PE


  • #6003
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    The Germans aren't messing about. Rightly so in fairness. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/american-woman-coronavirus-germany-bar-crawl-superspreader-b472632.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1600411391


  • #6004
    coastwatch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭coastwatch


    mollser wrote: »
    Absolutely correct. It was her laughing at the economic consequences which was galling.

    It was just a nervous laugh during a live interview, nothing more.


  • #6005
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,459 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    prunudo wrote: »
    Regarding the increasing icu numbers, do they release the ages of these patients. Also, again with the recent deaths, are they releasing the age of these people. They used to but the level of information they report daily seems to change depending on what the message of the day is.

    Table 4 for ICU, you can compare reports to see what age groups have an increase.

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/


  • #6006
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    coastwatch wrote: »
    It was just a nervous laugh during a live interview, nothing more.

    Nervous my ar$e, I was watching that interview and it just confirmed for me that the people who are making up these stupid rules are in an economic bubble of their own. None of them will be losing jobs or being impacted economically in any way at all. They are all living in ivory towers oblivious to the damage that is being done to people’s lives.


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  • #6007
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Eod100 wrote: »
    The Germans aren't messing about. Rightly so in fairness. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/american-woman-coronavirus-germany-bar-crawl-superspreader-b472632.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1600411391

    What would they think of a health minister displaying the symptoms turning up to a Cabinet meeting?


  • #6008
    bennyl10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,591 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    Nervous my ar$e, I was watching that interview and it just confirmed for me that the people who are making up these stupid rules are in an economic bubble of their own. None of them will be losing jobs or being impacted economically in any way at all. They are all living in ivory towers oblivious to the damage that is being done to people’s lives.

    She laughed at the question she is unqualified to answer

    She Then gave her opinion, as a virologist

    Economy comes second to people’s lives, this isn’t an “1% vs us” thing. This is dealing a virus!


  • #6009
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Steve F wrote: »
    So, is this the beginning of the second wave that some said would never happen?
    Genuine question.
    History tells us that epidemics and Pandemics rarely only have one wave but.........
    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    This was always going to happen, not sure why people are really surprised tbh. Just how life goes.

    Do you ever read what you type? You doubt we'll get one then it was always going to happen. Flip flop.

    08-06-2020
    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    1) theres no clique, some people just chat utter tripe.

    2) No. If we haven’t seen signs of it in other countries by now I doubt we’ll have one. Spikes and clusters dispersed yes, but not a wave.


  • #6010
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Mark Paul nails it again in the Irish Times today.

    Well-meaning but overly-cautious medical advice in June and July was not put through the sieve of economic and social pragmatism that ought to sit in the kitchen drawer of every government. Had ministers been willing to allow all hospitality businesses to trade with relevant safety measures when virus numbers were low, it might have fostered a temporary alcohol table-service café culture that would have also allowed certain sections of society to breathe.
    Instead, the Government chose not to release this pressure valve and kept wet pubs closed, helping to cultivate a national crop of house parties and private gatherings that are now being blamed for the explosion in case numbers.


  • #6011
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,591 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Eod100 wrote: »
    The Germans aren't messing about. Rightly so in fairness. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/american-woman-coronavirus-germany-bar-crawl-superspreader-b472632.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1600411391
    Meanwhile in the UK...
    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/cluster-of-covid-19-cases-in-south-wales-linked-to-doncaster-coach-trip-39540467.html

    Their annual trip (to the races) went ahead
    - despite not having tickets
    - some members of the trip had symptoms & had taken a Covid test
    They were drinking in pubs without waiting for test results


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  • #6012
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mollser wrote: »
    The virologist lady on Prime Time last night - after hearing about the dire economic consequences of what's proposed, she just started laughing saying how she wouldn't be qualified to speak on economics, show's a complete lack of 'roundedness' of these people. Quite insulting actually.

    These people need an economics lesson in their own pockets to give them some perspective as to how the world actually works.

    I thought that was terrible , she burst into loud laughter , really annoyed me too :mad:


  • #6013
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Other posters haver replied to you. 100 cases of coronavirus in children week before schools opened. Why wouldn't there be cases of children infected who are attending schools. We were told to expect cases in children when they are back in school. Point is children dont infect other children or their teachers. What are you afraid of? Your children are more in danger of t he flu. Covid is not a big risk to children.

    Woody, there is no evidence children don't infect other children or teachers. There is evidence, especially in younger age groups that it is less likely, however you have opened yourself up for one or Caveats gotchas here


  • #6014
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    What would they think of a health minister displaying the symptoms turning up to a Cabinet meeting?
    He displayed symptoms of something, spoke to CMO, consulted the GP and tested negative and the drama was over. He's not the first politician in the world to have a COVID question about him.


  • #6015
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,734 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Mark Paul nails it again in the Irish Times today.

    Well-meaning but overly-cautious medical advice in June and July was not put through the sieve of economic and social pragmatism that ought to sit in the kitchen drawer of every government. Had ministers been willing to allow all hospitality businesses to trade with relevant safety measures when virus numbers were low, it might have fostered a temporary alcohol table-service café culture that would have also allowed certain sections of society to breathe.
    Instead, the Government chose not to release this pressure valve and kept wet pubs closed, helping to cultivate a national crop of house parties and private gatherings that are now being blamed for the explosion in case numbers.

    You can not change a country's culture overnight, pubs, tourism are a huge part of ours. We shut it all down for too long while the rest of Europe was wide open again. Pubs were one of the first things to reopen in Spain.
    I think Leo was realising this and was starting to row back restrictions but the coalition was formed and Martin had different ideas.


  • #6016
    DangerScouse
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 466 ✭✭DangerScouse


    Eod100 wrote: »
    The Germans aren't messing about. Rightly so in fairness. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/american-woman-coronavirus-germany-bar-crawl-superspreader-b472632.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1600411391

    Love to hear this approach.


  • #6017
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    Eod100 wrote: »
    The Germans aren't messing about. Rightly so in fairness. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/american-woman-coronavirus-germany-bar-crawl-superspreader-b472632.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1600411391


    Tucker fooking Carlson.

    Germans are right. People need to be punished.


  • #6018
    mr_edge_to_you
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,306 ✭✭✭mr_edge_to_you


    prunudo wrote: »
    Less of the 'we', its a minority ruining it for the majority.

    Frustration is getting better of me. Sorry.


  • #6019
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Mark Paul nails it again in the Irish Times today.

    Well-meaning but overly-cautious medical advice in June and July was not put through the sieve of economic and social pragmatism that ought to sit in the kitchen drawer of every government. Had ministers been willing to allow all hospitality businesses to trade with relevant safety measures when virus numbers were low, it might have fostered a temporary alcohol table-service café culture that would have also allowed certain sections of society to breathe.
    Instead, the Government chose not to release this pressure valve and kept wet pubs closed, helping to cultivate a national crop of house parties and private gatherings that are now being blamed for the explosion in case numbers.
    Mark Paul has very been grumpy about this since Day 1 but some days he gets past the ranting. The approach may be cautious but it's very pie in the sky to imagine we'd suddenly become a cafe society overnight. It's very elitist mush anyway, with his "certain sections of society allowed to breathe" schtick.


  • #6020
    mollser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭mollser


    coastwatch wrote: »
    It was just a nervous laugh during a live interview, nothing more.

    Fair enough. Just show's the importance to have strong leaders moderating this stuff, she literally hadn't a clue about the unintended consequences of the advice!


  • #6021
    thelad95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭thelad95


    mollser wrote: »
    Fair enough. Just show's the importance to have strong leaders moderating this stuff, she literally hadn't a clue about the unintended consequences of the advice!

    Has it been considered that perhaps she was laughing at the ridiculousness of being quizzed on the economic implications in the first place knowing herself that she has nothing to contribute towards the conversation?

    The role of doctors and virologists in all this is simply to advise, it's up to the government to try and implement that advice if they see fit while safeguarding the economy.


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  • #6022
    boggerman1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭boggerman1


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    Nervous my ar$e, I was watching that interview and it just confirmed for me that the people who are making up these stupid rules are in an economic bubble of their own. None of them will be losing jobs or being impacted economically in any way at all. They are all living in ivory towers oblivious to the damage that is being done to people’s lives.

    There was another virologist on newstalk breakfast after 7 and when asked about the economic destruction there was nothing but silence.


  • #6023
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    is_that_so wrote: »
    He displayed symptoms of something, spoke to CMO, consulted the GP and tested negative and the drama was over. He's not the first politician in the world to have a COVID question about him.

    Well if a member of my staff had a cough and turned up to the office I would be furious as would his/her colleagues. Safety first. And this applies whether it was Covid, the flu or the common cold.


  • #6024
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    boggerman1 wrote: »
    There was another virologist on newstalk breakfast after 7 and when asked about the economic destruction there was nothing but silence.
    It's not their area so usually wise not to say nothing. There are plenty of media darlings out there waffling about stuff with no knowledge nor expertise.


  • #6025
    OscarMIlde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    manniot2 wrote: »
    why is nobody asking any questions about the pcr cycles being used in Ireland. we are hunting for noninfectious cases and making massive economic and social decisions based on flawed data.

    Why, have you some kind of insider knowledge on the assays being run by every testing site in Ireland?

    RT-PCR detects the presence of viral RNA, it is easy to see from the curves generated whether an amplification is real. In terms of CT values, there is no 'housekeeping' gene we can use as a control, so a tester cannot tell whether late CTs are indicative of less viral load, or simply a poor swab. The test itself makes no claim as to the infectivity of the person tested.

    However since people being referred for testing are either close contacts of a confirmed case or symptomatic people it is highly likely a positive PCR result is from someone with an active infection.


  • #6026
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Well if a member of my staff had a cough and turned up to the office I would be furious as would his/her colleagues. Safety first. And this applies whether it was Covid, the flu or the common cold.
    Roll back to January of this year and you wouldn't have being diagnosing anything. Hard to shake off the habit of staggering into work when you think you're not really sick.


  • #6027
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    boggerman1 wrote: »
    There was another virologist on newstalk breakfast after 7 and when asked about the economic destruction there was nothing but silence.

    Are they saving the virus questions for the Economist?


  • #6028
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gods Gift wrote: »

    Germans are right. People need to be punished.

    That worked out well in the past.



    Its one thing if someone had been diagnosed with covid and went about partying. Anything else is a witch hunt


  • #6029
    billybonkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭billybonkers


    So if we leave Dublin before this announcement today we're good to stay away for the week?


  • #6030
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Woody, there is no evidence children don't infect other children or teachers. There is evidence, especially in younger age groups that it is less likely, however you have opened yourself up for one or Caveats gotchas here

    I'm kinda bored with this conversation on schools. I'm not replying to anymore of them. Proof that schools are dangerous is "no evidence children don't infect others or children". We'll leave it there so. You got me good.
    https://t.co/MwYwS9j8ek?amp=1


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  • #6031
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    billybonkers wrote: »
    So if we leave Dublin before this announcement today we're good to stay away for the week?
    Once you're out, you're free!


This discussion has been closed.
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