Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

walus · 17-09-2020 04:34PM

Allinall wrote: »

Gardai were never asked to measure the distance between tables in pubs.

They will be from now on. A certain company was awarded a contract to fit in laser sensors for distance measurements into their batons

.

Penfailed · 17-09-2020 04:37PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ohhh they got noticed. They got M Martin worried actually

Taoiseach says he has 'deep concerns' about 'aggression' of weekend anti-mask protest

https://www.thejournal.ie/taoiseach-deep-concerns-about-anti-mask-protest-5205147-Sep2020/

Just because this isnt on RTE 24 7, doesnt mean people out there are "fine with restrictions".

I'd be worried about the aggression too. Especially as it was anti-mask far right protestors (ironically wearing masks) that were the aggressors.

PowerToWait · 17-09-2020 04:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The water charges protests are a little different to the current situation. People already living in austerity like conditions were frustrated that another charge was getting brought in. People don’t like to be hit in the pocket.

Water charges were protested by the same people who protested waste charges. People who get everything for nothing.

Don’t remember too many USC protests, funnily.

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 04:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The water charges protests are a little different to the current situation. People already living in austerity like conditions were frustrated that another charge was getting brought in. People don’t like to be hit in the pocket.

With Covid, the financial pain is not really been felt by many yet. The government are borrowing billions to keep the country on life support. And they are sheltering the people in an attempt to keep compliance high.

But it’s unsustainable. Eventually we’ll all start to feel the pain. Probably at the 2021 budget or possibly an emergency budget earlier next year.

If people were hit hard now financially, I imagine protests would be huge and compliance low.

The financial pain - not yet, you are right. But i think that given we only have 20k bar staff who are not allowed to work currently, and 15% + unemployment as of 31 Aug, tons of people realize the horror of actually not having a job anymore, and as you pointed out economy on life support (that is literally these people).

I feel very bad for them. I actually feel the worst for them. Just hope government get some sense before its too late. 15% unemployment is unreal, and it will only get worse with this level 2, 3 level 4 system and the uncertainty it brings (not a single number is mentioned as to what is a "High incidence rate" or "Disease is spreading rapidly") You cant operate or open a business with this lack of certainty. Means less and less jobs.

growleaves · 17-09-2020 04:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The water charges protests are a little different to the current situation. People already living in austerity like conditions were frustrated that another charge was getting brought in. People don’t like to be hit in the pocket.

With Covid, the financial pain is not really been felt by many yet. The government are borrowing billions to keep the country on life support. And they are sheltering the people in an attempt to keep compliance high.

But it’s unsustainable. Eventually we’ll all start to feel the pain. Probably at the 2021 budget or possibly an emergency budget earlier next year.

If people were hit hard now financially, I imagine protests would be huge and compliance low.

Yes, water charges protests were very much a belated anti-austerity protest by a section of the populace with Irish people taking a slow to anger temperament in general.

Raymond Crotty pointed out that the massive protests against Conscription in 1918 and general support for Sinn Fein around that time had a class element, as well-off members of the Dublin middle-class were expected to don a uniform and fight in the Great War. There were no exemptions.

Shades of this last February when many young middle-class people in the country found they were locked out of housing and protested by adding to Sinn Fein's vote. (Not older, landlord types obviously)

So the conditions for a future national backlash against covid-lockdown could be if the whole country - or large cross-sections of it - were to find themselves significantly impoverished or frustrated (very possible).

Also many people will easily forget that they themselves supported lockdown and will blame only the government. Human nature 101.

mcgragger · 17-09-2020 04:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If you read back over these restrictions threads, a few of us predicted exactly what would happen as far back as April.

Economy destroyed - Check
Country officially in recession - Check
Huge unemployment- Check
Lockdown / Restrictions failed - Check
Urgent screenings/Treatment ignored - Check
No vaccine for some time yet - Check
Civil unrest - Check

At this moment in time, we are already living with heavy restrictions. The only solution the government/NPHET can see is even more restrictions. And it doesn’t look like we will change tactic anytime soon.

The future of our country/economy now rests on someone finding a vaccine.

Future generations will curse us for crashing the country so badly on them for an illness struggling to even kill 2000 people.

So what do you suggest we do then?
This is a global issue - not an Irish Gov created issue?

So give me your plan for doing something wonderful to counter all of the stuff you are complaining about from your armchair?

Hurrache · 17-09-2020 05:02PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ohhh they got noticed. They got M Martin worried actually

Taoiseach says he has 'deep concerns' about 'aggression' of weekend anti-mask protest

https://www.thejournal.ie/taoiseach-deep-concerns-about-anti-mask-protest-5205147-Sep2020/

Just because this isnt on RTE 24 7, doesnt mean people out there are "fine with restrictions".

He's not worried about the morons protesting, he's worried at the assholes getting hard and brave by attacking women when they're given reacharounds of encouragement to each other while they're in a group, ironically while wearing masks. Cowards.

Penfailed · 17-09-2020 05:11PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

15% unemployment is unreal

We've been here before though. As recent as 2010.

Zebra3 · 17-09-2020 05:13PM

end of the road wrote: »

debt was being added on regardless of what approach was taken.
as has been said before, the country was never going to escape economic issues related to covid.

Yes, but there is such a thing as financial rectitude.

Banks won't continue to lend money for ever.

The economy has to get back on its' feet.

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 05:26PM

Penfailed wrote: »

We've been here before though. As recent as 2010.

But this has a very different feel than 2010.

This time around, our govt (not mean greedy banks, but our govt) has kept economy largely closed, during the summer period, when in July and August our new cases pattern was something like 9, 4, 14, 18, 7, 8, 11, 20, 13, 5
and deaths was something like 0,0,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,0

In this period we should have started our recovery. Instead we kept having Ronan Glynn on RTE every day saying "I m concerned that number of new cases today went from 4 to 14" and stand up comedians on this thread were saying "thats R number of over 3.x !"

Point i am making is that banks dont owe anything to people. Banks and CEOs of banks are not voted in by general public. But government is. and government genuinely can not go and screw up needlessly and expect to say "this is a global pandemic lads" "Pubs re opening suggests increases in cases, international evidence suggests" when we were (back in July and August) and still are the only EU country with closed pubs. you cant treat Irish people like idiots for months on end.

So yes, there were no protests or particular anger about high unemployment in 2010, but that unemployment was not created by the very people who general public voted in. (i dont entertain this idea of "covid created unemployment", last time I checked covid did not keep pubs closed in July when 5 people were getting infected a day and 0 deaths were occurring) (pubs being just an example btw, international travel and tourism would be another example).

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 05:47PM

They've recommended Level 3 for Dublin.

And below is actually a clear example of how dumb, sorry, stupid, ah what the hell, DUMB, how DUMB government and "restrictions" really are. below happens in Level 3.

"All museums, galleries and other cultural attractions must close. "

Please tell me, have there been any COVID OUTBREAKS in a fkn museum?? Or A GALLERY INFESTED WITH COVID? Contaminated National gallery of Ireland perhaps?

Seriously how can you "support" this?? Who is drafting up this absolute nonsense? Same lad who drafted up lockdown legislation and went to the golf party?

Idbatterim · 17-09-2020 06:04PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Very true - has been said many times that health of the economy and public health is inextricably linked.

Just depressing to listen to plans from the government that will only further destroy the economy, when recovery could have been started in May with much damage mitigated.

We know hospitals get busier in winter. The time to relax restrictions more, was over the summer, to limot economoc damage. Then maybe theyd have had to shut down " wet pubs " again for a while, but they could have got up and running again for a while.... i think far larger outdoor sports gatherings should have been permitted and weddings as usual, no cap on numbers...

MadYaker · 17-09-2020 06:05PM

mcgragger wrote: »

So what do you suggest we do then?
This is a global issue - not an Irish Gov created issue?

So give me your plan for doing something wonderful to counter all of the stuff you are complaining about from your armchair?

You won't get a real answer to this because nobody in this thread is capable of anything other than childish whinging. I think it's some form of bizarre therapy. I feel sorry for the doctors and nurses who will have to deal with the fallout from this if we can't get it under control. While the selfish keyboard warriors in this thread sit at home and whinge about "lockdown". The human race is fcuked imo.

Idbatterim · 17-09-2020 06:07PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Been told on this very forum, in this very thread actually that protests against covid restrictions will never happen. I think, and i can paraphrase "we Irish are not the protesting type". Was told this back in first 2 weeks of June. So you may appreciate my surprise to see 2k gathering so early.

Well I suppose if 15k did the job at reversing water charges, come end of November if these draconian restrictions still rage on we may see 5 to 8 k people protesting. PUP reduction is in effect since yesterday also, hurting people's pockets in addition to every 6th person being out of work. Jacdaniel2014 predicted this, ever since May actually, some smart people on here.

Summer over, pup being reduced, pubs remaining closed. Budget imminent. Its a bloody pity they have the ability to borrow the vast sums, instead of address the issues. Typical of here, theyll always take the path of least resistance. " hard decisions " lol !

Stormyteacup · 17-09-2020 06:22PM

MadYaker wrote: »

You won't get a real answer to this because nobody in this thread is capable of anything other than childish whinging. I think it's some form of bizarre therapy. I feel sorry for the doctors and nurses who will have to deal with the fallout from this if we can't get it under control. While the selfish keyboard warriors in this thread sit at home and whinge about "lockdown". The human race is fcuked imo.

Yes it is an outlet for some complaining, at least from me - hands up!:)
Much of what I voice here can’t be said in polite company. Many I know have swallowed the media frenzy whole.

Took a break from thread for a while as mental health had improved with what I thought was a positive moving forward of living with Covid. Unfortunately has taken a turn for the worse again.

As I’ve said in previous posts no one wants health professionals to deal with the system being overrun. But the system is rotten - that’s what the ‘childish whinging’ is about.

I picture grown men and women sitting in convention centre debating how many allowed attend a wedding in level 4 - ‘let’s put it to a vote’.

What a complete and utter waste of time and our money.

Six months and billions available to sort out the health system and nothing to show for it.

No wonder blood pressure is up (am now in vulnerable category to boot).

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 06:33PM

Listen, there are great people on both sides of the "covid is a deadly disease" argument. But, below are the CMO words from today's conference

“Act now to save lives. Limit your contacts as much as possible. Assume you and those you meet are infectious, keep your distance and do your part to keep others safe.”

That is just not right. That is NOT what they say in other developed EU nations, I can assure you of that I've visited one 2 weeks ago.

If you have children - keep them away from RTE news. This is just beyond bizarre now.

AUDI20 · 17-09-2020 06:35PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes it is an outlet for some complaining, at least from me - hands up!:)
Much of what I voice here can’t be said in polite company. Many I know have swallowed the media frenzy whole.

Took a break from thread for a while as mental health had improved with what I thought was a positive moving forward of living with Covid. Unfortunately has taken a turn for the worse again.

As I’ve said in previous posts no one wants health professionals to deal with the system being overrun. But the system is rotten - that’s what the ‘childish whinging’ is about.

I picture grown men and women sitting in convention centre debating how many allowed attend a wedding in level 4 - ‘let’s put it to a vote’.

What a complete and utter waste of time and our money.

Six months and billions available to sort out the health system and nothing to show for it.

No wonder blood pressure is up (am now in vulnerable category to boot).

I unfortunately have some bad news for you, its going to get a lot worst

Allinall · 17-09-2020 06:35PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Listen, there are great people on both sides of the "covid is a deadly disease" argument. But, below are the CMO words from today's conference

“Act now to save lives. Limit your contacts as much as possible. Assume you and those you meet are infectious, keep your distance and do your part to keep others safe.”

That is just not right. That is NOT what they say in other developed EU nations, I can assure you of that I've visited one 2 weeks ago.

If you have children - keep them away from RTE news. This is just beyond bizarre now.

What specifically is wrong with what he said?

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 06:44PM

Allinall wrote: »

What specifically is wrong with what he said?

Assume you and those you meet are infectious

I interpret that as me and others having an infectious disease.

Is that the case? Me and the 4,899,999 other people in this country have the disease?

Allinall · 17-09-2020 06:46PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Assume you and those you meet are infectious

I interpret that as me and others having an infectious disease.

Is that the case? Me and the 4,899,999 other people in this country have the disease?

You have a very poor understanding of this virus.

How do you know at any given point in time that you do not have Covid, and could be infecting other people?

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 06:47PM

Also, could someone explain please why isnt anyone wearing a mask when figures are being announced? I have never seen Ronan Glynn in a mask. I Thought they were indoors?

In EU parliament currently everyone wears a mask, person takes it off when they speak at the microphone but other than that - mask on. (they arent sitting on top of each other in EU parliament btw)

Ginger n Lemon · 17-09-2020 06:48PM

Allinall wrote: »

You have a very poor understanding of this virus.

How do you know at any given point in time that you do not have Covid, and could be infecting other people?

So i am to live for rest of my life (until a vaccine is found) assuming I have covid and can infect people? Will I pass this on to my children too? Or does covid go away after few years?

growleaves · 17-09-2020 06:55PM

The request by the CMO is to treat every other human being as a biohazard. How many people, including pro-restrictions people, actually do that?

Penfailed · 17-09-2020 06:55PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Listen, there are great people on both sides of the "covid is a deadly disease" argument. But, below are the CMO words from today's conference

“Act now to save lives. Limit your contacts as much as possible. Assume you and those you meet are infectious, keep your distance and do your part to keep others safe.”

That is just not right. That is NOT what they say in other developed EU nations, I can assure you of that I've visited one 2 weeks ago.

If you have children - keep them away from RTE news. This is just beyond bizarre now.

How do you know that they're not saying that in other EU nations? Visiting one doesn't count. How fluent are you in French? Did you listen to the French equivalent of the CMO? No? Didn't think so.

road_high · 17-09-2020 07:00PM

growleaves wrote: »

The request by the CMO is to treat every other human being as a biohazard. How many people, including pro-restrictions people, actually do that?

That’s exactly the kind of ****e these freaks come out with. And that’s what is running the country now

17-09-2020 07:04PM

mcgragger wrote: »

So what do you suggest we do then?
This is a global issue - not an Irish Gov created issue?

So give me your plan for doing something wonderful to counter all of the stuff you are complaining about from your armchair?

Less is more.

Huge focus on hand washing and distancing.
Plenty of positive news and reinforcement.
Keep nursing homes as locked down as humanly possible.
Advise the elderly of the risks (Over 90% deaths in this demographic)

Hold off on big events for now such as gigs/sports

Continue to highlight the importance of personal responsibility.

Perhaps most importantly, accept that people are going to die and make peace with it.

Stormyteacup · 17-09-2020 07:05PM

growleaves wrote: »

The request by the CMO is to treat every other human being as a biohazard. How many people, including pro-restrictions people, actually do that?

I read desperation from that.

CMO knows government are losing compliance rapidly and he is understandably petrified about hospital crisis on horizon.

He shouldn’t be let on National television saying that though.

We badly need someone to take the reins on this thing.

Stormyteacup · 17-09-2020 07:09PM

Reported on rte that there are 49 beds free in ICU and 299 general beds free for adults.

Is there still extra capacity available outside of this?

MadYaker · 17-09-2020 07:15PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Reported on rte that there are 49 beds free in ICU and 299 general beds free for adults.

Is there still extra capacity available outside of this?

The short answer is no. Unless they do similar to what the HSE did back in March with a total cancellation of all non essential procedures and a takeover of the private hospitals at enormous expense to the state. The guidelines and restrictions we've been asked to abide by were partly to ensure that that wouldn't be necessary again but clearly too many people have been ignoring what they were asked to do. 1 person in ICU 3 weeks ago, 6 people in ICU last week and now 14 this week, and that's with a few people who were in ICU having died in the meantime. Unfortunately that isn't sustainable so now more stringent measures will have to be put in place to try and reduce community transmission. In this thread about 4 weeks ago I was saying that cases just increasing and increasing for ever isn't sustainable for this very reason and I was scoffed at.

Allinall · 17-09-2020 07:19PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

So i am to live for rest of my life (until a vaccine is found) assuming I have covid and can infect people? Will I pass this on to my children too? Or does covid go away after few years?

Why are you asking me?

I’ve no idea whether you have children or not.

I have also no idea whether Covid will go away after a few years. Nobody does. As you know yourself.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings