Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

16-09-2020 02:20PM

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah, I have often laid awake at night wondering how a restaurant works.

I came to the conclusion, that you sit down, order food, you are given your food you eat it, pay and leave.

Obviously I am wrong.

NEPHET surely have never been to a school, restaurant or stadium. That would be madness.

Yes we need an extra layer of red tape to explain to the cabinet how these things work.

I have been to a hospital. I wouldn't presume to tell them how to run it though

Rx713B · 16-09-2020 02:25PM

BRING BACK THE BEERS:pac::pac:

Goldengirl · 16-09-2020 02:29PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Its simply not feasible to stop darts before the reach Bray or Greystones purely because you fear people might go out for a drink.

Simply put it won't happen for a number of reasons because in that case you just push everyone onto buses and you can't leave a town & county cut off from public transport. Where do you draw the line ?

Engineering works are generally carried out on Bank holiday weekends and extra buses do be put on, not possible at the moment so no comparison

Issues like this are dealt with in other countries by transport police .

TonyMaloney · 16-09-2020 02:30PM

ixoy wrote: »

For all your snark, I imagine it's the logistics they might not be aware of or how practical it is. Their advice could be "2m gap between tables!" but need to be told in turn that that's not viable so let's work out an interim plan. Let's also see how we can, if possible, incorporate guidelines around entering/exiting a class from a logistics perspective, how do you stagger lunch breaks, what's a policy on managing ill kids, and so on. A working group should be there to get that balance.

That sounds a lot like epidemiology

Boggles · 16-09-2020 02:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I have been to a hospital. I wouldn't presume to tell them how to run it though

Indeed.

But Leo is telling the chair of NPHET The President of a University that he doesn't know how a school works.

mirrorwall14 · 16-09-2020 02:37PM

Have there been any beers today?

Boggles · 16-09-2020 02:45PM

ixoy wrote: »

For all your snark, I imagine it's the logistics they might not be aware of or how practical it is. Their advice could be "2m gap between tables!" but need to be told in turn that that's not viable so let's work out an interim plan. Let's also see how we can, if possible, incorporate guidelines around entering/exiting a class from a logistics perspective, how do you stagger lunch breaks, what's a policy on managing ill kids, and so on. A working group should be there to get that balance.

That has been done.

Social distancing wasn't possible in post primary, so masks were recommended.

Ill children should be isolated and sent home.

Pods, lunch breaks, bubbles all done. All advice from NPHET based on international practice.

So tell me again, what does squeezing another layer fat do exactly, apart from cushion the cabinet from culpability?

Irish Steve · 16-09-2020 02:45PM

Boggles wrote: »

Indeed.

But Leo is telling the chair of NPHET The President of a University that he doesn't know how a school works.

A long time ago in a distant galaxy

, someone who shall remain nameless said to me.

Those that can.... DO
Those that can't .... Teach
Those that can't teach, teach teachers.
Those that can't teach teachers..... get promoted to management.

16-09-2020 02:46PM

Boggles wrote: »

Indeed.

But Leo is telling the chair of NPHET The President of a University that he doesn't know how a school works.

I don't think Prof Nolan would presume to know the intricacies of how a school operates either

Boggles · 16-09-2020 02:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think Prof Nolan would presume to know the intricacies of how a school operates either

Sorry did you mean to say a flux capacitor?

Because I imagine the vast majority know how a fúcking school works.

Leo has been wheeled out to blind us with bullshít, I didn't actually think it would be this successful.

Goldengirl · 16-09-2020 02:51PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Those elderly people have lived through many threats and dangers and are probably prepared to enjoy the rest of their lives as best they can despite perceived risks. I have some elderly relatives and the general attitude amongst them is that they absolutely resent being referred to as ‘vulnerable’. One in particular told me that the “NPHET shower” should be thrown out and replaced by people who are a minimum of 70 years old.
I think that unless you are of a certain age you just do not understand the way the elderly view illness and death. They realise that they are going to die relatively soon of something or other. In the meantime they just want to enjoy whatever time is left for them, be it long or short.
Making their lives a misery in the hopes that things can return to ‘normal’ sometime in the future does not make much sense to them. The way the elderly are being treated by society over the last few months would, in pre-Covid times, be rightly regarded as elder abuse.

A post thanked by all those who have stated that 'sure it's only old people dying of this disease ' or words to that effect .
And a couple others who I suspect are thinking you are genuine .
Yes , well done , in your " support " for elder rights to " life " , clap , clap .

SPDUB · 16-09-2020 02:51PM

Boggles wrote: »

So tell me again, what does squeezing another layer fat do exactly, apart from cushion the cabinet from culpability?

Nothing .

If I was appointed I would be taking details of times of meetings , what was discussed , when I forwarded documents ( and what was in them ) and when recommendations are given what they were and time forwarded .

Boggles · 16-09-2020 02:52PM

Irish Steve wrote: »

A long time ago in a distant galaxy , someone who shall remain nameless said to me.

Those that can.... DO
Those that can't .... Teach
Those that can't teach, teach teachers.
Those that can't teach teachers..... get promoted to management.

Half the government are Ex teachers.

Non solum non ambulabit · 16-09-2020 02:54PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/no-guarantee-covid-19-vaccine-will-be-found-says-who-s-mike-ryan-1.4356313

Dr Mike Ryan, head of the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) health emergencies programme, said there was “not a guarantee” a coronavirus vaccine would be found

In my opinion Michael Ryan loses credibility with statements like this. What audience is he playing to here?

A number of vaccines are in very late stage of development (Phase 3) and have been be proven to produce an antibody response.

Boggles · 16-09-2020 02:55PM

SPDUB wrote: »

Nothing .

If I was appointed I would be taking details of times of meetings , what was discussed , when I forwarded documents ( and what was in them ) and when recommendations are given what they were and time forwarded .

That's not their job.

Their job is to interpret the advice from NPHET and repackage it and present it to cabinet.

Why this is needed all of a sudden and the cabinet have suddenly became Dougal. I have no idea. But I have my suspicions.

Goldengirl · 16-09-2020 02:59PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I hear Pascal O Donohoe has said you shouldn't leave Dublin for a wedding ,

What's the story if you have a wedding this weekend in a county that boarders Dublin but the Bride and Groom and everyone attending are from Dublin ,

Do you cancel on 2 days notice ?

No .
It is just " strongly advised " .

If I were you I would go, and go away for 2 weeks somewhere nice afterwards

Not with the bride and groom of course!
Even non green list countries are better than being in Dublin atm

shmeee · 16-09-2020 03:00PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Have there been any beers today?

No beers announced here.

Brewery is closed it seems for now.

SPDUB · 16-09-2020 03:01PM

Boggles wrote: »

That's not their job.

Their job is to interpret the advice from NPHET and repackage it and present it to cabinet.

Why this is needed all of a sudden and the cabinet have suddenly became Dougal. I have no idea. But I have my suspicions.

I presume your suspicions is the point I was making which is why I said do all the above

Because otherwise they be better paying them the equivalent of an good Lottery win

Goldengirl · 16-09-2020 03:03PM

Boggles wrote: »

Yes, and that is why we have stumbled from one crisis to another for the last 30 years.

And when it is time for culpability when things títs up, there is so many cogs in the wheel. It's impossible.

The exact same thing is currently happening now.

Totally agree with you .
But that is why they are doing that , to avoid culpability .
And later on whenever this blows up or is over , a commission of enquiry will investigate , write a long report with a list of recommendations, and noone will be found at fault , just the " system" .
Which is what they are setting us up for now , a " systematic failure " with a blurred chain of command .

Goldengirl · 16-09-2020 03:06PM

SPDUB wrote: »

Nothing .

If I was appointed I would be taking details of times of meetings , what was discussed , when I forwarded documents ( and what was in them ) and when recommendations are given what they were and time forwarded .

And publishing all on Gov.ie

MerlinSouthDub · 16-09-2020 03:08PM

shmeee wrote: »

No beers announced here.

Brewery is closed it seems for now.

We should be able to get the number of positive swabs from the dashboard in the next hour or so - it usually updates between 3 and 4 every day.

is_that_so · 16-09-2020 03:08PM

mandrake04 wrote: »

There is hard ceiling to domestic testing due finite instruments in the country, once you go over your ceiling you are going have backlogs unless you get help from outside.

There is also beginning to be a shortage of plasticware stuff like tips, tip trays, processing wells and processing Plates. The plastic Assy packs. There is a huge demand for testing around the world, every country has got additional instrumentation and running it at even more capacity than March/April. The factories cant make stuff fast enough. Europe is now indicating possible Airport testing rather than quarantine, this is going eat into supply for clinical diagnosis which might prove tricky coming into winter.

If cases rises and you are unable to test healthcare workers for their own and patient safety then that's going be an issue, you have people in hospital and they have to be tested before being discharged etc.

At the moment deaths are low, fair enough the tards say this virus is only dangerous to the elderly, the overweight and people with other conditions like Diabetes, COPD etc...in some strange way they think this is acceptable. OK yes 90% cases are mild but they still affect a lot of day to day living.

The problem is once you have healthcare workers and frontline staff being infected in droves they have to take 2 weeks off to recover....same for the Garda, firemen etc. It might be mild illness but it affects the whole fabric of society.

People say we must learn to live with covid, learning to live with it.. is learning to live tough restrictions otherwise you cant control it.

Its whole existence is to live in us.. not with us and its extremely good at that.

And you were so nearly there, a poster well on his way to a reasoned post. Amazing the power of one little word , to trip you up.

16-09-2020 03:09PM

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry did you mean to say a flux capacitor?

Because I imagine the vast majority know how a fúcking school works.

Leo has been wheeled out to blind us with bullshít, I didn't actually think it would be this successful.

Its only a school, anyone could do it.

The NPHET give guidance, and should also vet plans, but they must also take it that those who operate the areas of society that they are proposing restrictions on, also know better how to implement, or not as the case may be, the details of those restrictions. Apart from where something is being shut down completely, those who are expert in the operations of those areas are best positioned to lead the implementation of practical guidelines that have a chance of achieving the goals the public health desire.

For example, in the initial reopening, hardware stores were permitted to re-open, but homeware stores were not. This had the situation where some large hardware/ homeware stores were required to close off some of their floor space, unnecessarily restricting space in a large, relatively safe building, and creating artificial bottle necks in the stores. In principal, hardware - essential, homeware not, fine, but it had practical, potentially counter productive consequences for those managing these restrictions on the ground that would be immediately apparent to the experts in that area.

caveat emptor · 16-09-2020 03:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Its only a school, anyone could do it.

The NPHET give guidance, and should also vet plans, but they must also take it that those who operate the areas of society that they are proposing restrictions on, also know better how to implement, or not as the case may be, the details of those restrictions. Apart from where something is being shut down completely, those who are expert in the operations of those areas are best positioned to lead the implementation of practical guidelines that have a chance of achieving the goals the public health desire.

For example, in the initial reopening, hardware stores were permitted to re-open, but homeware stores were not. This had the situation where some large hardware/ homeware stores were required to close off some of their floor space, unnecessarily restricting space in a large, relatively safe building, and creating artificial bottle necks in the stores. In principal, hardware - essential, homeware not, fine, but it had practical, potentially counter productive consequences for those managing these restrictions on the ground that would be immediately apparent to the experts in that area.

So who is at fault if/when the plan tanks?

They've been hiding behind nphet for ages.

You can delegate a task but not responsibility. If a lot of people die this winter AND the economy goes to **** AND we can't have a Christmas with loved ones. Make no mistake the fault will lie squarely with the government and MM.

We are trying to have our Christmas cake and eat it too and as everyone knows that leads to bad outcomes.

Ll31 · 16-09-2020 03:15PM

pc7 wrote: »

So if Dublin goes to level 3 and Colleges are back in a few weeks, most places 1st years will be on campus to start with, they won't be allowed home (if from outside dublin). As if that is going to happen, its just going to get worse. I really was positive during the Summer that we were on top of things, but it really is looking like its going one way at the minute.

I think therell be hardly anyone on campus- certainly some of tcd timetables seem to be all online this semester for some years..

is_that_so · 16-09-2020 03:16PM

Ll31 wrote: »

I think therell be hardly anyone on campus- certainly some of tcd timetables seem to be all online this semester for some years..

TCD are also setting up their own test centre.

mloc123 · 16-09-2020 03:18PM

shmeee wrote: »

No beers announced here.

Brewery is closed it seems for now.

Our man never came back down the mountain? :eek:

Benimar · 16-09-2020 03:20PM

272 positives on 12,241 tests - positivity rate of 2.22%

Blondini · 16-09-2020 03:21PM

mloc123 wrote: »

Our man never came back down the mountain? :eek:

I'd imagine it will drop today after the big number yesterday.
Fingers crossed deaths and hospitals stay low.

16-09-2020 03:23PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

So who is at fault if/when the plan tanks?

They've been hiding behind nphet for ages.

You can delegate a task but not responsibility. If a lot of people die this winter AND the economy goes to **** AND we can't have a Christmas with loved ones. Make no mistake the fault will lie squarely with the government and MM.

We are trying to have our Christmas cake and eat it too and as everyone knows that leads to bad outcomes.

As with anything accountability lies with the decision makers, and responsibility with those who formulate and implement the plan

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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