Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

PTH2009 · 16-09-2020 12:05AM

anyone feel once next Monday hits and the old pub experience returns (quite restricted at that) less worrying about numbers and that will happen

Financially it will start to hit people in the coming weeks, less hours in work less money to spend etc. The Covid payment is just a memory at this stage for some. Myself and many others were better off on that payment then we are now. Christmas could be a massive struggle for people this year

moonage · 16-09-2020 12:10AM

Penfailed wrote: »

So if flu is less than 0.1%, Covid is at least 2.5 to 3.7 times more deadly. There's one or two posters on here that claim it's the same or not as bad as the flu.

The Covid fatality rate is similar to a severe flu season, which we get every several years.

Yet during severe flu seasons we don't get constant media coverage and daily death numbers.

Farmer_3650 · 16-09-2020 12:17AM

Any word of how the pubs are reopening? I assume I'd have to book a table in advance, otherwise they'll all be packed?

NIMAN · 16-09-2020 12:42AM

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

Any word of how the pubs are reopening? I assume I'd have to book a table in advance, otherwise they'll all be packed?

Can't see there being table booking for a pub. Its a very spur of the moment decision for many.

Definitely table service though, no queuing at bar.

It'll be like being in Italy!

FintanMcluskey · 16-09-2020 12:42AM

hmmm wrote: »

Flu is about 0.01% - we lose about 200 to 500 people a year to Flu. The other thing about Flu is that we have some innate immunity, so only a relatively small percentage of the population will get it - whereas with Covid that is likely to be far higher. It's perfectly built to overwhelm hospitals.

Would you have any source for those figures you just made up?

FintanMcluskey · 16-09-2020 12:47AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Depends on the demographics of the population.
It’s a lot less deadly than flu in the younger population, especially children. Flu can be quite deadly in children, Covid much less so.

Covid is much more deadly than flu in the older population, but then again there is a flu vaccine given to the majority of the elderly every year.

So once we have a vaccine it should be a lot less deadly than flu.

The classification of deaths is also skewing the figures.

Do we test for influenza in similar numbers to Covid?

I've never heard of anyone I know taking an influenza test.

Tony H himself admitted that many Covid deaths were notified as a Covid death without Covid being the cause of death

kippy · 16-09-2020 12:51AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The classification of deaths is also skewing the figures.

Do we test for influenza in similar numbers to Covid?

I've never heard of anyone I know taking an influenza test.

Tony H himself admitted that many Covid deaths were notified as a Covid death without Covid being the cause of death

Anyone equating covid to regular flu needs to look at the videos coming out of Italy in March and April.

Risteard81 · 16-09-2020 01:13AM

kippy wrote: »

Anyone equating covid to regular flu needs to look at the videos coming out of Italy in March and April.

This is September.

Those claims were nonsense.

FintanMcluskey · 16-09-2020 01:29AM

kippy wrote: »

Anyone equating covid to regular flu needs to look at the videos coming out of Italy in March and April.

Oh I've seen the videos.

I also understand that a disease that has killed a median age of 84 in Ireland will cause havoc in a region with an old population. That region in northern Italy was had one of the worlds oldest, populations, and, 10 million citizens in an area the size of Munster.

Now, Italy, for anyone thats interested, has often struggled in that region with over crowding in hospitals every influenza season, but that wasn't on facebook so you would be unlikely to have seen it.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285

Take a look at the numbers in that article. And please stop saying Influenza isn't similar to Covid.

lucernarian · 16-09-2020 02:00AM

moonage wrote: »

The Covid fatality rate is similar to a severe flu season, which we get every several years.

Yet during severe flu seasons we don't get constant media coverage and daily death numbers.

Nope. Italy has its fair share of flu and a really comprehensive healthcare system. The overwhelmed hospitals in the wealthy north show very blatant and obvious proof this is worse than any flu recorded since 1918.

lucernarian · 16-09-2020 02:10AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Oh I've seen the videos.

I also understand that a disease that has killed a median age of 84 in Ireland will cause havoc in a region with an old population. That region in northern Italy was had one of the worlds oldest, populations, and, 10 million citizens in an area the size of Munster.

Now, Italy, for anyone thats interested, has often struggled in that region with over crowding in hospitals every influenza season, but that wasn't on facebook so you would be unlikely to have seen it.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285

Take a look at the numbers in that article. And please stop saying Influenza isn't similar to Covid.

Are you saying H1N1 magically skipped past Italy in 2009? Or that they are faking the news footage in 2020? Nice contextual camouflage of a paper that describes ILI (influenza-like illness) rather than actual confirmed diagnoses using PCR. In that paper they describe the surveillance as a sample of a small group of GPs who were diagnosing this "ILI". You'd swear that the body bags were a regular appearance in March in Bergamo.

Penfailed · 16-09-2020 06:41AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

And please stop saying Influenza isn't similar to Covid.

Please stop saying that influenza is similar to Covid.

Happydays2020 · 16-09-2020 07:09AM

Penfailed wrote: »

Please stop saying that influenza is similar to Covid.

But they have similar symptoms and effects, although the effects do differ to a greater or lesser extent. I don’t want either to be honest or other viral infections.

xl500 · 16-09-2020 07:52AM

this is how serious they are taking it in Spain

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2020/0909/1164189-spanish-surfer/

prunudo · 16-09-2020 08:02AM

xl500 wrote: »

this is how serious they are taking it in Spain

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2020/0909/1164189-spanish-surfer/

Maybe the fact she was fit enough to go surfing says more about the virus than some of the hysteria we see elsewhere.

Thierry12 · 16-09-2020 08:32AM

prunudo wrote: »

Maybe the fact she was fit enough to go surfing says more about the virus than some of the hysteria we see elsewhere.

Plus the fact shes almost certainly not contagious

Those highly sensitive yes and no pcr tests are a joke

We need to know who's contagious, thats all, it cant be that hard, us humans being so smart and all

Nearly 12 months on and we have no ****ing clue how to do that

Its situations like this that prove how much we over rate our intelligence

Animals in nature know that

People out there think we are going to Mars soon and building colonies up there, lapping up the bull****

kippy · 16-09-2020 08:38AM

Risteard81 wrote: »

This is September.

Those claims were nonsense.

What was nonsense about the videos? Are you suggesting they were faked?

kippy · 16-09-2020 08:40AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Plus the fact shes almost certainly not contagious

Those highly sensitive yes and no pcr tests are a joke

We need to know who's contagious, thats all, it cant be that hard, us humans being so smart and all

Nearly 12 months on and we have no ****ing clue how to do that

Its situations like this that prove how much we over rate our intelligence

Animals in nature know that

People out there think we are going to Mars soon and building colonies up there, lapping up the bull****

The fact that a subset of "us" protests about wearing masks says how intelligent "we" are really.
We continue in general to have very poor hand hygiene - you'd swear this was all new stuff, which is a major reason why there's still plenty virus' doing the rounds that are fatal in the wrong/right circumstances.

FintanMcluskey · 16-09-2020 08:41AM

xl500 wrote: »

this is how serious they are taking it in Spain

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2020/0909/1164189-spanish-surfer/

Look its grossly irresponsible and incredibly dangerous to do that while Covid positive.

The biggest danger is a shark attack, followed closely by a confused bull penguin attack.

hmmm · 16-09-2020 08:43AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Would you have any source for those figures you just made up?

Sure. https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/adult/fluva/

We have 200 to 500 flu deaths a year.

500 is .01% of our population of 5 million.

I think sometimes people get the maths wrong. If Flu was 0.1% that would mean 5,000 deaths a year.

FintanMcluskey · 16-09-2020 08:46AM

hmmm wrote: »

Sure. https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/adult/fluva/

We have 200 to 500 flu deaths a year.

500 is .01% of our population of 5 million.

I think sometimes people get the maths wrong. If Flu was 0.1% that would mean 5,000 deaths a year.

Im just quoting this so it doesn't get lost

Thierry12 · 16-09-2020 08:48AM

hmmm wrote: »

Sure. https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/adult/fluva/

We have 200 to 500 flu deaths a year.

500 is .01% of our population of 5 million.

I think sometimes people get the maths wrong. If Flu was 0.1% that would mean 5,000 deaths a year.

We dont test for flu

We have no idea how many die from it

Its an educated guess

xl500 · 16-09-2020 08:51AM

The great unknown is

"How many would have died if we did nothing"

FintanMcluskey · 16-09-2020 08:59AM

xl500 wrote: »

The great unknown is

"How many would have died if we did nothing"

Are you referring to not cancelling cancer screenings and treatments and all non Covid related illness treatment for months?

Probably the same amount that died now otherwise.

The death rate correlates to the population over 65(where 95% of deaths occur), not lockdown, so anywhere between 250-300 deaths per 100k over 65 population.

Ireland have about 280 deaths per 100k over 65
Sweden have about 290 deaths per 100k over 65

16-09-2020 09:17AM

hmmm wrote: »

Sure. https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/adult/fluva/

We have 200 to 500 flu deaths a year.

500 is .01% of our population of 5 million.

I think sometimes people get the maths wrong. If Flu was 0.1% that would mean 5,000 deaths a year.

Everyone doesn't get Flu every year, and loathe as I am to agree with Fintan et al, we dont test everyone for Flu either. An elderly person in a home who gets Flu, Pneumonia and subsequently dies is likely to be put down as respiratory failure, unless there is a widespread flu outbreak in the care home.

However it is wrong to say we don't test for flu. Anyone admitted to hospital, or even presenting at A&E with respiratory symptoms, will in all probability be tested for Influenza.

hmmm · 16-09-2020 09:28AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

We dont test for flu

We have no idea how many die from it

Its an educated guess

This is the delusion thread, so happy for you to invent your own statistics - but there are not thousands of unrecorded Flu deaths which will allow you to feel better about thinking "Covid is like the Flu".

BTW there is quite careful monitoring of flu-like illness every year
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/

bucketybuck · 16-09-2020 09:47AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Look its grossly irresponsible and incredibly dangerous to do that while Covid positive.

The biggest danger is a shark attack, followed closely by a confused bull penguin attack.

The best part is that if she had been killed by a shark while surfing, the death would have been included in the covid statistics as a death with covid.

kippy · 16-09-2020 10:02AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Are you referring to not cancelling cancer screenings and treatments and all non Covid related illness treatment for months?

Probably the same amount that died now otherwise.

The death rate correlates to the population over 65(where 95% of deaths occur), not lockdown, so anywhere between 250-300 deaths per 100k over 65 population.

Ireland have about 280 deaths per 100k over 65
Sweden have about 290 deaths per 100k over 65

Why are people talking about Sweden?
Sweden did not "do nothing".

Only an idiot would suggest that if "nothing" was done (no social distancing, continue with the usual lack of handwashing, etc etc) we would have the same amount of deaths as we have now.

patnor1011 · 16-09-2020 10:08AM

kippy wrote: »

Why are people talking about Sweden?
Sweden did not "do nothing".

Only an idiot would suggest that if "nothing" was done (no social distancing, continue with the usual lack of handwashing, etc etc) we would have the same amount of deaths as we have now.

No need to talk about Sweden. There are many more countries which did even less than Sweden did. Like most of Africa for example. Surprisingly virus for some reason did not spread like wildfire all over the continent and there is also a lack of millions of dead Africans who do have even bigger lack of handwashing, etc etc.

16-09-2020 10:21AM

Woke up this morning with pains in my sides from laughing so hard yesterday at that 9 month “plan” and the farcical delivery.

A 5 level plan were all counties start at 2 but Dublin have extra restrictions... No metrics mentioned anywhere. How do we move to level 1? Or level 3? It seems like government/NPHET decide who goes where based on their own thoughts.

Level 1 is full restrictions anyways so ultimately nothing worth aiming for. And schools never close... no matter what the situation is.

60 pages of absolute rubbish that looks like it was tossed together over the weekend. And then Donnelly goes for a Covid test after all his coughing on the radio and TV.

I don’t think there has ever been a more disappointing day in Irish politics.

I’m heading to Dublin in a few mins. What are the restrictions there at the moment? Nobody knows really.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings