Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

bush wrote: »

Now when I was there the doctor said it takes forever to have a scan done now and seemed pissed off about it.

It must be seriously frustrating for doctors waiting on public health for scans etc. I've private insurance, had to see a consultant last week took a week for the appointment and I've a scan next week.
This idea were all in this together is nonsense, the public waiting list is at it largest level ever now. Last week we had 611,000 people waiting on an out patient appointment and 145,000 of those have been waiting at least 18 months for an appointment.

More than 723,200 languish in queue for care as hospital waiting lists crisis revealed https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/more-than-723200-languish-in-queue-for-care-as-hospital-waiting-lists-crisis-revealed-39523660.html

bush wrote: »

He gave me tablets hoping for the best which luckily did work.

Hopefully they stay working, mine did but it came back after about 4 weeks. I'm a little anxious and it's been a quick turn around I can only imagine what people waiting a year or more are thinking.

Nermal wrote: »

CFR falls as testing increases. They make no attempt to adjust for this. Certainly not evidence of improved treatments like you claim.

BTW the same authors actually did something useful and tried to estimate the IFR not too long ago. 0.3%:
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/estimating-the-infection-fatality-ratio-in-england/

€30B and counting, for something that kills the three oldest and sickest people in every thousand.

If only it was this simple

It’s my 30th birthday in April 2021 and I’m having a party regardless of guidelines

Gael23 wrote: »

It’s my 30th birthday in April 2021 and I’m having a party regardless of guidelines

100% correct. You've achieved some wisdom in your 30 years i.e. Carpe Dium.

Deleted User wrote: »

Just like Zero covid folk need to accept we have to live with the virus, you will need to live with the fact that society has decided that it is not prepared to accept a future where old people have weeks months and years taken from their lives

When did we decide this?

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No I wont accept that nonsense.

And I dont give a **** for myself, I had great opportunities for myself and got to use them when I was younger to set myself up.

I do care for flushing the futures of those coming after me down the toilet, all in the name of buying some lad in a nursing home, with the quality of life worse than a battery hen, a few extra weeks.

What a load of PC bolix

Ahhh more dogwhistling for all the offended conspiracy casedemic types... What's actually being asked of us, wear a mask in shops and not feck off to Crete for a week of parties? How many futures have been ruined by this, pray tell?

Agree with you that a covid free island can't be reached without basically prohibiting all travel. Ultimately, all new cases we have basically come from travel since the summer. Just some common sense and good hygiene could save us all a lot of deaths and economic disruption.

I know this thread is generally populated by the posters who want the economy to open further/fully and while I don't agree with some or most of the opinions it has provided me with a useful balance to the opinions generally put out by the media that I read.

The fact is that "open up the economy" media is generally the Daily Mail, the Sun and the Times. Since I don't agree with the general political leanings of those newspapers, I don't tend to read them. And I'm not broad brushing all the posters in this thread with the right wing paint, it's just that the fact is, it is those media outlets that are currently taking the line that the restrictions are excessive.

I have generally agreed up to about a week ago that numbers testing positive are not a good indicator of how the pandemic is taking hold. We simply don't know how many of those positives are asymptomatic, and we don't know whether an asymptomatic person is as contagious as a symptomatic person. So while hospital admissions, ICU numbers, and deaths continued to be low there was no justification for further restrictions, and it was certainly arguable that there was a case for lowering restrictions.

However, while covid admissions to hospital were at 16 at the start of August, we are now at 60. And while ICU admissions were at 5, we are now at 10. The numbers are the numbers, there's no ignoring that. And while the numbers have been creeping up, they do appear to be increasing at a faster rate over the past few days. I don't think the government can spin hospital numbers - unlike the daily positive tally.

Of course there is a balance between restrictions and numbers in hospital/ICU/deaths. And those will not increase at the rate they were increasing in March because we have restrictions in place. So the rise will be slower. But doesn't it mean that we will end up in the same place as we were in April, except it will take double or triple the time to get there?

And as for the "virus is weakening", I'm not convinced. Leave the US out of the discussion because the dichotomy between testing and reporting, different rules in different states, and the political veil over all of that makes their experience too difficult to compare to ours. Is there any country that is going through their second wave, where hospital admissions have stayed consistently low despite the high numbers testing positive? All I hear about is Israel and Spain and Australia.

lucernarian wrote: »

Ahhh more dogwhistling for all the offended conspiracy casedemic types... What's actually being asked of us, wear a mask in shops and not feck off to Crete for a week of parties? How many futures have been ruined by this, pray tell?

Agree with you that a covid free island can't be reached without basically prohibiting all travel. Ultimately, all new cases we have basically come from travel since the summer. Just some common sense and good hygiene could save us all a lot of deaths and economic disruption.

Another ignorant post.

Those galutes off on holiday, tut tut.

You have had little intrusion on your life/business, or so I assume by the patronising waffle you posted.

Common sense and good hygiene?

WTF, most of us have those things indoctrinated into us since toddlers.

Maybe some less fortunate only started washing themselves when Ronan told them its important

Deleted User wrote: »

Locking down again would come at a huge financial cost and when we reopen again the cases will build again. Rinse and repeat.

Restrictions/lockdown are just delay tactics until 1 of the 2 below scenarios occur;

1) We get a vaccine and return to normal
2) We run out of resources and have to return to normal

Alternatively, we could just accept that some people will die from Covid. But in this PC world we live in, that is seen as outrageous.

I remember when Leo 1st announced lockdown that night in March.

It made sense. Flatten the curve. Buy the health service time.

If the health service got overran, others would die from minor ailments as they wouldn't have received treatment. That all made sense that night on March 12th I think. It was a short, blunt exercise. Stay home save lives.

What we didnt know that night was, they were taking over the private hospitals, cancelling all procedures for months, cancelling cancer screenings and treatments for months, to leave most hospitals totally empty for months. Meanwhile the perpetually outraged fumed at Sweden.

However, what we have actually done is chosen who dies.

As you said a Covid death has to be avoided on PC grounds, and some people consider it a success that we "only" had 1700 Covid deaths while refusing to consider the 30+ cancer diagnosis which were missed each day for months.

People are ignoring the abyss of a health issue that's ahead, not because of Covid, but the response to Covid

Two points here:

Alternatively, we could just accept that some people will die from Covid. But in this PC world we live in, that is seen as outrageous.

I probably never really thought about how many people die as a fairly direct result of my own actions pre-Covid. I never got the flu vaccine, probably because i thought of catching the flu as a remote concept and never fully appreciated that I might pass it on to a vulnerable person. I suppose my opinion was, if you are vulnerable, you should get the vaccination. I might have thought differently if there was no vaccination.

I don't drive, but I suppose if I did I probably wouldn't think about how many deaths on the road result from cars because like everyone, I would assume I was a "safe driver" and it was only bad drivers that cause crashes. Bad driving isn't catching.

Also, I know that banning sugar would reduce obesity. But, again my thoughts would be, well, don't eat sugar and if you do you live with your choices. Would it be different if obesity was contagious? So someone could have a perfectly good diet but catch obesity from a friend who ate sugar? Yeah. Yeah that would make a big difference. It's the unfairness of it that would get me.

I guess we have a comfort level with the number of deaths that are as a result of people's own bad choices, or are "accidents" - e.g. a stroke or pnuemonia or cancer. It's deaths from contagious diseases (of which we have very little nowadays) that we have such a low tolerance for.

As you said a Covid death has to be avoided on PC grounds, and some people consider it a success that we "only" had 1700 Covid deaths while refusing to consider the 30+ cancer diagnosis which were missed each day for months.

I completely understand what you are saying. But this is just human nature. We have a very good idea of how many people will die if Covid is left unchecked, whereas it is much more difficult to quantify what the increased mortality rate would be if someone got their cancer diagnosis in April/May rather than August. When people are faced with a certainty, rather than a probability (even if the probability could be higher) they will always go with the certainty and hope for the best on the probability. Studies have shown that people vastly underestimate risks to their own health when it's a "maybe it will, maybe it won't" happen scenario. Hence why there's so many climate change deny-ers.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Another ignorant post.

Those galutes off on holiday, tut tut.

You have had little intrusion on your life/business, or so I assume by the patronising waffle you posted.

Common sense and good hygiene?

WTF, most of us have those things indoctrinated into us since toddlers.

Maybe some less fortunate only started washing themselves when Ronan told them its important

Bit of a "no u" kind of reply there. We're finally coming out of the genuinely draconian stuff of the last few months and reopening pubs and people like you would still whinge about the restrictions that are left. The golfgate scandal made it clear just how much common sense the great and the good of this country have. Indoctrinated into us, my arse.

But there's plenty of salty types who'd rather blame masks and the gubmint for the ****e state of affairs. Can't offer anything to the world except more angry opinions.

And on the topic of not talking about things you don't know about, that applies to anyone's personal life too.

Really there needs to be more meaningful relief for businesses who can't work, and a more meaningful reform of healthcare so that the outpatient problem gets sorted pronto. But that won't change the need to social distance or the hygiene measures.

firemansam4 wrote: »

Just like it's that easy to do....

Where I live there is one main health centre and they are only allowing phone consultations only.
For many people they don't want to have consultations over the phone and are probably just not going to bother seeing to problems or ailments that might not seem too bad now but could lead onto something more serious if left unchecked.
This and the massive waiting lists now for scans ect are going to put many lives in danger.

Not everyone on this thread is only concerned about being able to get out for a drink or having a few friends round for a gavering.
There is going to be questions asked in the future about the many lives and people's health that will suffer due to delayed treatments and it's nothing to be just shrugged off...

I agree with your post with the exception of friends and drink, that not the most urgent issue discussed here.

For me its the issue that the response and closure of private hospitals, cancellation of cancer treatment has in effect played God with who lives and dies.

However, the debate about GPs started when someone remarked in their local practice they could only avail of a consultation with a GP not a visit, and the usual suspects retorted with nonsense about that not being the case whatsoever.