Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

speckle · 13-09-2020 10:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is your proposal that those requiring critical care from counties without icu capacity not be allowed go to the hospitals in their regions that have icu capacity? Dublin, Galway, Cork etc also serve surrounding areas

No of course not, people from kerry ended up in cork and people in cork ended up in dublin.
But if the citys are going to be buzy, that puts the other counties at a disadvantage, and even though I hope the death rate is coming down or maybe more clearer, I would not want to die in a hospital 100 km from home or wish it on my family either.
I would have thought that every public hospital in Ireland should have a respiratory specialist, understanding that ECMO etc would be very rare and not in every hospital.

13-09-2020 10:29PM

BobbyMalone wrote: »

Has the advice on antibacterial gel gone out the window? I thought it was advised to use it if you don't have access to soap & water?

They have to contain 60% or higher alcohol if memory serves me correctly.

Goldengirl · 13-09-2020 10:29PM

BobbyMalone wrote: »

Has the advice on antibacterial gel gone out the window? I thought it was advised to use it if you don't have access to soap & water?

If it has enough alcohol in it to get rid of the virus, yes . But its "antibacterial " properties would not be to the fore here really .

BobbyMalone · 13-09-2020 10:29PM

GooglePlus wrote: »

Anti bacterial won't kill viruses but the soap will denature. Alcohol above 70% will denature the virus also.

Ah, I think the antibacterial gel I use is also 70% alcohol, hence my confusion.

13-09-2020 10:34PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

They have to contain 60% or higher alcohol if memory serves me correctly.

Drunkmonkey can soak his masks in some of his poitin stash so?

Goldengirl · 13-09-2020 10:35PM

speckle wrote: »

No of course not, people from kerry ended up in cork and people in cork ended up in dublin.
But if the citys are going to be buzy, that puts the other counties at a disadvantage, and even though I hope the death rate is coming down or maybe more clearer, I would not want to die in a hospital 100 km from home or wish it on my family either.
I would have thought that every public hospital in Ireland should have a respiratory specialist, understanding that ECMO etc would be very rare and not in every hospital.

ICU in local hospitals are fine as long as they have the necessary resources, specialist nurses , doctors and anaesthetists , and appropriate isolation available .

GooglePlus · 13-09-2020 10:35PM

BobbyMalone wrote: »

Ah, I think the antibacterial gel I use is also 70% alcohol, hence my confusion.

The alcohol gel you use is antibacterial as well as anti viral.

13-09-2020 10:38PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Drunkmonkey can soak his masks in some of his poitin stash so?

Might explain a few things alright.

Goldengirl · 13-09-2020 10:39PM

GooglePlus wrote: »

The alcohol gel you use is antibacterial.

Edited to include ..as well

drunkmonkey · 13-09-2020 10:39PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Antibacterial will have no effect on it ...unless you gave an anti VIRAL agent on it .

Are you talking about a specific mask ?

The main spread of Covid is via contaminated surfaces according to the WHO (what new surface did we make mandatory before cases went up).

Yes these masks, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200910110839.htm

Polar101 · 13-09-2020 10:44PM

stockshares wrote: »

This is a thread by David Higgins. It lists the amount of cases needed by each county to qualify for Lockdown.

The screenshot shows the county table

https://twitter.com/higginsdavidw/status/1304844340490055687?s=19

Intersting. I also liked the Cote d'Ivoire flag.
But I hope a bit of common sense will be used with the restrictions - some counties have very low populations. So you could have 3 cases a day in Leitrim for a while, and they'd be over the threshold. And then there's obvious geographical considerations, like some parts of what is technically Waterford City being in co. Kilkenny - so if you had different levels of restrictions for Waterford and Kilkenny, for example, how much sense would that make?

s1ippy · 13-09-2020 10:45PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The main spread of Covid is via contaminated surfaces according to the WHO (what new surface did we make mandatory before cases went up).

Yes these masks, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200910110839.htm

You become infected with covid when you inhale contaminated with viral particles, not bacterial ones.

https://www.google.ie/search?safe=off&ei=_Y9eX9rTDo2J1fAPt72n4A4&q=bacteria+virus+size+difference&oq=bacteria+virus+size+difference&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBAgAEB4yBggAEAgQHjoECAAQRzoECAAQQzoGCAAQBxAeOggIABAIEAcQHlC4IVjWKmDXMWgAcAF4AIABbogB1AOSAQMzLjKYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

The above outlines the very important difference between bacteria and viruses: Bacteria are massive by comparison.

Have a look here, it's a very cool resource:
https://scaleofuniverse.com/

Also viruses mutate at a much faster rate. They can correct their DNA or RNA to alter mistakes and become more effective in their efforts (either to infect more rapidly or kill). This is possibly one reason the infection spreading currently is not translating to an immediate increase in deaths. The virus was not spreading as much so it adapted to be less fatal in the short term to enable wider spread.

Some viruses can actually infect bacteria.

All of the above and more is why "antibacterial" doesn't cut it when it comes to preventing contamination. As another poster said, antimicrobial is probably what you mean. Nothing should touch the inside of a mask before it's worn and it should be immediately disposed of after use as it is contaminated once taken off. Supposed medical professionals telling people to reuse masks are in dereliction of their duty to be truthful to the public.

13-09-2020 10:45PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The main spread of Covid is via contaminated surfaces according to the WHO (what new surface did we make mandatory before cases went up).

Yes these masks, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200910110839.htm

Nope this is what they say, does include surfaces, but since it also mentions masks as a preventive measure so understand why you left it out.

Current evidence suggests that COVID-19 spreads between people through direct, indirect (through contaminated objects or surfaces), or close contact with infected people via mouth and nose secretions. These include saliva, respiratory secretions or secretion droplets. These are released from the mouth or nose when an infected person coughs, sneezes, speaks or sings, for example. People who are in close contact (within 1 metre) with an infected person can catch COVID-19 when those infectious droplets get into their mouth, nose or eyes.

To avoid contact with these droplets, it is important to stay at least 1 metre away from others, clean hands frequently, and cover the mouth with a tissue or bent elbow when sneezing or coughing. When physical distancing (standing one metre or more away) is not possible, wearing a fabric mask is an important measure to protect others. Cleaning hands frequently is also critical.

Specifically in relation to surfaces and cleaning

People with the virus in their noses and throats may leave infected droplets on objects and surfaces (called fomites) when they sneeze, cough on, or touch surfaces, such as tables, doorknobs and handrails. Other people may become infected by touching these objects or surfaces, then touching their eyes, noses or mouths before cleaning their hands.

This is why it is essential to thoroughly clean hands regularly with soap and water or an alcohol-based hand rub product, and to clean surfaces regularly

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-how-is-covid-19-transmitted

speckle · 13-09-2020 10:46PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

ICU in local hospitals are fine as long as they have the necessary resources, specialist nurses , doctors and anaesthetists , and appropriate isolation available .

Would you think that a respiratory specialist/consultant might be handy also?:)

13-09-2020 10:47PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The main spread of Covid is via contaminated surfaces according to the WHO (what new surface did we make mandatory before cases went up).

Yes these masks, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200910110839.htm

No, according to WHO the main source of spread is close contact.

Goldengirl · 13-09-2020 10:51PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The main spread of Covid is via contaminated surfaces according to the WHO (what new surface did we make mandatory before cases went up).

Yes these masks, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200910110839.htm

Interesting . Do you think the HSE would be ordering these masks any time soon?

But I wouldn't be wearing the same mask for anywhere near 8 hours which is the test time of that mask .
I change my mask if it gets damp, and prefer to have a selection of cotton / linen masks that I can wash , for my personal use .
As an asthmatic I would also be very careful what products I would use ( antibacterial / detergents ) in case it triggers a reaction .

At work we change our masks between patients, before and after tea breaks, different procedures etc.

I would imagine these masks are aimed at the city and office population of Hong Kong and other cities .
What is the price point for the customers you see using these in Ireland ?

Aph2016 · 13-09-2020 10:54PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

Cummins is not a medical doctor. He’s an engineer. And a charlatan.

A charlatan, do explain. Have you a rebuttal to his video from September 8th? Doubt it.

speckle · 13-09-2020 10:55PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The main spread of Covid is via contaminated surfaces according to the WHO (what new surface did we make mandatory before cases went up).

Yes these masks, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200910110839.htm

Gosh that press release is quite confusing, it talks of these masks being anti-bacterial, which dentists would be happy with as some of them are worried re an increase in dental problems with masks.
But then it goes on to talk about the masks anti viral properties against coronaviruses.
I wonder is something lost in translation?

By the way I would not like to handle a mask after someone spiting or coughing into it and then discarding it even if covid formite transmission is lower than other options alot of bacteria for other things may be on it.

Wash your hands, dispose of everything covid related safely

drunkmonkey · 13-09-2020 10:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

No, according to WHO the main source of spread is close contact.

How is the virus that causes COVID-19 most commonly transmitted between people?

Current evidence suggests that COVID-19 spreads between people through direct, indirect (through contaminated objects or surfaces), or close contact with infected people via mouth and nose secretions.
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-how-is-covid-19-transmitted

GooglePlus · 13-09-2020 11:01PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How is the virus that causes COVID-19 most commonly transmitted between people?

Current evidence suggests that COVID-19 spreads between people through direct, indirect (through contaminated objects or surfaces), or close contact with infected people via mouth and nose secretions.
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-how-is-covid-19-transmitted

The virus has to be secreted from somewhere before it can fall on a surface. A mask will reduce the secretion onto the surface.

Goldengirl · 13-09-2020 11:02PM

speckle wrote: »

Would you think that a respiratory specialist/consultant might be handy also?:)

Included in my post under " specialist ....doctors " .

Not essential in every hospital as the consultant's profile may be different and the type of work due to that may be just elective ventilation of postoperative patients and occasionally if a medical admission needs more support .
But I wouldn't expect those particular ICUs to be looking after ventilated Covid patients .

thebaz · 13-09-2020 11:02PM

Why are the authorities and in particular WHO not doing more testing on Vitamin D defficiency and Covid - Its explained here in this video and I've seen it raised by other Doctors that many of those that die from Covid are Vitamin D defficient. I know from visiting Nursing homes , the patients don't seam to get any sunlight and doubt they are getting Vitamin D supplements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Ks9fUh2k8

drunkmonkey · 13-09-2020 11:06PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Interesting . Do you think the HSE would be ordering these masks any time soon?

But I wouldn't be wearing the same mask for anywhere near 8 hours which is the test time of that mask .
I change my mask if it gets damp, and prefer to have a selection of cotton / linen masks that I can wash , for my personal use .
As an asthmatic I would also be very careful what products I would use ( antibacterial / detergents ) in case it triggers a reaction .
At work we change our masks between patients, before and after tea breaks, different procedures etc.

I would imagine these masks are aimed at the city and office population of Hong Kong and other cities .
What is the price point for the customers you see using these in Ireland ?

See you know how to use one I just don't believe the general population are taking the same care, makes it all a bit pointless with all the improper use. Noticed a pensioner borrowing one off someone's face to go into a post office the other day.

Those masks will be cheap we can probably manufacturer them here.

Padraig Mor · 13-09-2020 11:06PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How is the virus that causes COVID-19 most commonly transmitted between people?

Current evidence suggests that COVID-19 spreads between people through direct, indirect (through contaminated objects or surfaces), or close contact with infected people via mouth and nose secretions.
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-how-is-covid-19-transmitted

That doesn't mean what you think it means.

drunkmonkey · 13-09-2020 11:09PM

GooglePlus wrote: »

The virus has to be secreted from somewhere before it can fall on a surface. A mask will reduce the secretion onto the surface.

That's not how it works, entirely depends on the face covering used, have you ever used a garden hose with different spray settings.

drunkmonkey · 13-09-2020 11:10PM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

That doesn't mean what you think it means.

I think it does. Wash your hands.

majcos · 13-09-2020 11:12PM

speckle wrote: »

Would you think that a respiratory specialist/consultant might be handy also?:)

Not necessarily. Respiratory consultants are absolutely involved in caring for patients with this but in most hospitals, patients will end up under the care of consultants in general internal medicine who are versed in dealing with acute respiratory failure. Respiratory consultants will have a role in long term follow up if patients develop long term lung disease but don’t necessarily have specific skills that are needed in immediate hospital care of Covid.

Intensivists/anesthetists usually look after ventilation. It is infectious diseases specialists who took the lead in caring for Covid patients in the Mater Hospital initially at least. Patients might also need the specific skills of a nephrologist if develop kidney failure, a haematologist for thrombosis related complications, a vascular surgeon if require an amputation due to a thrombosed limb, a stroke specialist, a cardiologist for myocarditis, etc.

smellyoldboot · 13-09-2020 11:13PM

Malcolm Weak Sprout wrote: »

what makes you think it has that much catching up to do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ7vPxWC-3Y

very good video on downward fatality rates

Extended lockdown decreased infection rates. It takes longer to die from it than be infected. 10,000+ cases a day there at present. We will see in a few weeks I guess. Very little beyond very optimistic speculation to suggest any weakening of virus.

Case rise, hospitalisation rate rises minimum 2/3 weeks later then another lag to death increase. Nothing indicates the pattern should be any different now. Heading into winter too. We haven't had a full winter of CoVid yet.

While some of us might be cheerleading pub reopening and looking in awe at the feckless French in their displays of bravado. I don't think the mood will be the same in 2/3 months time.

GooglePlus · 13-09-2020 11:14PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's not how it works, entirely depends on the face covering used, have you ever used a garden hose with different spray settings.

I'm not a garden hose.

Your argument assumes that everyone is wearing a ****e rag on their face, but that isn't the case. We've all been informed of the dangers of improper mask usage.

13-09-2020 11:18PM

I don't yet know what my Covid test result will be, all I know us that I have had a most horrible week. I have worn masks all the time, and I find it particularly difficult with my glasses steaming up, also I perspire quite a lot and have been rebreathing sweaty steamy vapours from my mask, even though I change them quite frequently. Just reading stuff here, that I've hitherto disagreed with in my own mind, I am beginning to wonder why I have had a particularly bad summer with sinusitis and seemingly chronic low level chest infection. Just thinking that *perhaps* my bad health has been due to rebreathing my own bacteria & having them multiply in sinuses & lungs.

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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