Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

Wanderer78 · 13-09-2020 10:10AM

Onesea wrote: »

By the time the virus got to them we only knew it was circulating.
We can't control it. That's my belief.

But no matter what we say, right now things are looking good.

but we ve already been trying to control it, its kinna worked, and kinna not worked. isnt a good idea to be precautions about a new, highly contagious virus?

Onesea · 13-09-2020 10:10AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so whats wrong there, why did this happen?

Because nobody is ever heald accountable withing government or middle management. Either that or nobody cares about the old people in care home.

Wanderer78 · 13-09-2020 10:12AM

Onesea wrote: »

Because nobody is ever heald accountable withing government or middle management. Either that or nobody cares about the old people in care home.

maybe, or maybe theres a problem when you prioritize the needs of rent seekers, over societies actual needs?

SeaBreezes · 13-09-2020 10:12AM

Onesea wrote: »

Didn't more die from seasonal flu in 2000 and year 2018? There was a doctor reporting on this a week ago, he also said having a soft flu 2019 season lended a hand to the increased figures we have in 2020

Just not true.

Explain excess deaths?
(By the way they are calculated against the average of the last 5 years to avoid that kind of bias).
Huge excess death In every country globally. Those who shutdown and those who didnt.

Very high this year, odd isnt it?

Onesea · 13-09-2020 10:13AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

but we ve already been trying to control it, its kinna worked, and kinna not worked. isnt a good idea to be precautions about a new, highly contagious virus?

Why be more precautios that Sweden? And less precaution than NZ?

Wanderer78 · 13-09-2020 10:14AM

Onesea wrote: »

Why be more precautios that Sweden? And less precaution than NZ?

why not? makes a lot of sense to me

SeaBreezes · 13-09-2020 10:17AM

Onesea wrote: »

Why be more precautios that Sweden? And less precaution than NZ?

Cause we value our older folk?
Cause sweden was a disaster both mortality wise AND economically?
Cause its better to err on the side of caution?

Onesea · 13-09-2020 10:17AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Just not true.

Explain excess deaths?
(By the way they are calculated against the average of the last 5 years to avoid that kind of bias).
Huge excess death In every country globally. Those who shutdown and those who didnt.

Very high this year, odd isnt it?

They died from covid 19.

The video was from Dr Ivor Cummins
Viral issue crusial update sep 8th
He uses graphs to explain the excess death issue.

shinzon · 13-09-2020 10:17AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0913/1164892-coronavirus-global/

Austria is experiencing the start of a second wave of coronavirus infections, its chancellor said, as cases spike upwards in line with other EU countries.

From Friday to Saturday, the Alpine nation of nearly nine million people reported 869 new cases - more than half of those in the capital Vienna.

"What we are experiencing is the beginning of the second wave," Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said in a statement, appealing to the population to stick to anti-virus measures and reduce social contacts.

He warned that the mark of 1,000 cases per day would be reached soon.

Yup its all over folks :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Shin

Onesea · 13-09-2020 10:17AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Cause we value our older folk?
Cause sweden was a disaster both mortality wise AND economically?
Cause its better to err on the side of caution?

I agree.

Happydays2020 · 13-09-2020 10:19AM

shinzon wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0913/1164892-coronavirus-global/

Yup its all over folks :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Shin

That’s public health messaging.

PowerToWait · 13-09-2020 10:21AM

iguana wrote: »

The big obstacle to keeping people from continuing to work from home isn't a desire to save these small businesses. They are just a convenient excuse. The issue is far more with the fact that a lot of very wealthy groups and organisations have their wealth tied up in commercial property. If everyone who viably can work from home does work from home, that property loses massive amounts of it's value. It's why someone like Alan Sugar has this week been espousing how important it is to the economy and people's mental health to go back to working in the office. He wants his commercial property investments to retain their value.

It is 100% this. No great surprise Trump is at the same craic.

PowerToWait · 13-09-2020 10:25AM

Onesea wrote: »

They died from covid 19.

The video was from Dr Ivor Cummins
Viral issue crusial update sep 8th
He uses graphs to explain the excess death issue.

Cummins is not a medical doctor. He’s an engineer. And a charlatan.

Drumpot · 13-09-2020 10:30AM

Once again, the question of Vitamin Ds importance is yet to be fully examined. Why? It’s cheap, it’s Readily available and very easy to roll out quickly.

- Nordic countries (with relatively low death rates for Covid) have low VIT D deficiency https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6245030/

- Irish times in May - Government should recommend VIT D immediately, https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-adults-should-take-vitamin-d-researchers-say-1.4250588%3fmode=amp
The correlation is so strong taking vitamin D should be advised immediately, Prof Kenny said. This was because vitamin D deficiency was common among those at risk of Covid-19 (particularly older people); there was no toxic risk from taking it at the recommended dosage level, and growing evidence of benefits.

Last week, scientists at Northwestern University in the US found those with severe vitamin D deficiency were twice as likely to experience Covid-19 complications.

- yet to be peer reviewed study from Israel - The link between Vit D deficiency in a large population. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.04.20188268v1.full.pdf

- the lancet - COVId 19 and VIT D deficiency
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(20)30183-2/fulltext?fbclid=IwAR0qzV-kiZcVRQ-KeBAkru6hpGUUVVhbywbU3YgV_KSNaE7X7DVmblO9ysk

One mostly overlooked factor that could influence outcome of COVID-19 is the relative vitamin D status of populations. Because people are advised to stay at home as much as possible, the government health agencies of Great Britain have recommended that people take vitamin D supplements through summer and autumn during this pandemic. Vitamin D supplementation could be especially important for older people as they are at high risk of poor outcome from COVID-19 and of vitamin D deficiency.

A growing body of circumstantial evidence now also specifically links outcomes of COVID-19 and vitamin D status. SARS-CoV-2, the virus responsible for COVID-19, emerged and started its spread in the Northern hemisphere at the end of 2019 (winter), when levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D are at their nadir.

Also, nations in the northern hemisphere have borne much of the burden of cases and mortality. In a cross-sectional analysis across Europe, COVID-19 mortality was significantly associated with vitamin D status in different populations. The low mortality rates in Nordic countries are exceptions to the trend towards poorer outcomes in more northerly latitudes, but populations in these countries are relatively vitamin D sufficient owing to widespread fortification of foods.

Italy and Spain are also exceptions, but prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in these populations is surprisingly common. Additionally, black and minority ethnic people—who are more likely to have vitamin D deficiency because they have darker skin—seem to be worse affected than white people by COVID-19. For example, data from the UK Office for National Statistics shows that black people in England and Wales are more than four times more likely to die from COVID-19 than are white people.

A role for vitamin D in the response to COVID-19 infection could be twofold. First, vitamin D supports production of antimicrobial peptides in the respiratory epithelium, thus making infection with the virus and development of COVID-19 symptoms less likely.

Second, vitamin D might help to reduce the inflammatory response to infection with SARS-CoV-2. Deregulation of this response, especially of the renin–angiotensin system, is characteristic of COVID-19 and degree of overactivation is associated with poorer prognosis. Vitamin D is known to interact with a protein in this pathway—angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2)—which is also exploited by SARS-CoV-2 as an entry receptor. While SARS-CoV-2 downregulates expression of ACE2, vitamin D promotes expression of this gene.

Rose Anne Kenny (Trinity College Dublin, University of Dublin, Ireland) led the cross-sectional study into mortality and vitamin D status and is the lead investigator of the Irish Longitudinal Study on Ageing (TILDA). She is adamant that the recommendations from all public health bodies should be for the population to take vitamin D supplements during this pandemic. “The circumstantial evidence is very strong”, she proclaims regarding the potential effect on COVID-19 outcomes. Adding, “we don't have randomised controlled trial evidence, but how long do you want to wait in the context of such a crisis? We know vitamin D is important for musculoskeletal function, so people should be taking it anyway”. Kenny recommends that, at the very least, vitamin D supplements are given to care home residents unless there is an extremely good reason not to do so.

Adrian Martineau (Institute of Population Health Sciences, Barts and The London, Queen Mary University of London, UK), lead author of the 2017 meta-analysis has joined with colleagues from universities around the UK to launch COVIDENCE UK, a study to investigate how diet and lifestyle factors might influence transmission of SARS-CoV-2, severity of COVID-19 symptoms, speed of recovery, and any long-term effects. They aim to recruit at least 12 000 people and to obtain interim results by the summer. Despite his enthusiasm for the study, Martineau is pragmatic: “At best vitamin D deficiency will only be one of many factors involved in determining outcome of COVID-19, but it's a problem that could be corrected safely and cheaply; there is no downside to speak of, and good reason to think there might be a benefit”.

Why isn’t there significant randomised controlled trials to check this out? I don’t see why our authority’s can’t recommend VIT D supplements as a complimentary tool to masks and other mitigation strategies. It doesn’t have to be communicated as a vaccine , more as one other tool we are using to try to reduce the impact of the virus.

Onesea · 13-09-2020 10:30AM

PowerToWait wrote: »

Cummins is not a medical doctor. He’s an engineer. And a charlatan.

Ah OK I didn't know. I believed it as I felt yt have done a good clean up of information present on its web site.

Gruffalux · 13-09-2020 10:30AM

Onesea wrote: »

I seen a post where aerlingus cabin crew cant feed their kids.From them two points you can see what's happening and what will happen in the near future.

.

You are a fan of what you probably think are the cold hard facts of reality - ie live with the disease, even though it may kill a fair few those who are very old and vulnerable. Here's another cold hard fact for those cabin crew - people lose jobs for various reasons and struggle to feed their kids. Then they have to go get another different job. I say that as someone brought up through the 80s depresssion when we actually did struggle for food due to unemployment. And I have family working in airlines. People said to all the builders who lost jobs in the 2008 downturn get a new job, learn coding, some such crap. Alan Sugar should diversify. People selling sambos should diversify. Sh!t happens. All the time.
As a matter of fact I am a supporter of Basic Income Allowance for every citizen of the whole planet to protect people from the increasing sh1t happening all the time. Automation. Outsourcing work to low wage countries. Exploiting kids in the developing world to prop up corporate profits. There are no guaranteed jobs. And wealth has been concentrated into ever fewer hands over the very recent past. The whole thing stinks.

owlbethere · 13-09-2020 10:36AM

Gruffalox wrote: »

I see Israel is going back into full lockdown from next Friday for 2 weeks minimum. No more than 500 metres from your home. All schools closed. Etc

People marching on our streets about our lockdown that happened months ago and is over now except for a small portion of businesses - pubs, clubs, large crowds stuff like concerts and matches - still complaining about it. Marching about Dublin shouting 'freedom' - from what I saw on the videos. We had the softest lockdown ever here in Ireland. We really did.

Onesea · 13-09-2020 10:38AM

Gruffalox wrote: »

You are a fan of what you probably think are the cold hard facts of reality - ie live with the disease, even though it may kill a fair few those who are very old and vulnerable. Here's another cold hard fact for those cabin crew - people lose jobs for various reasons and struggle to feed their kids. Then they have to go get another different job. I say that as someone brought up through the 80s depresssion when we actually did struggle for food due to unemployment. And I have family working in airlines. People said to all the builders who lost jobs in the 2008 downturn get a new job, learn coding, some such crap. Alan Sugar should diversify. People selling sambos should diversify. Sh!t happens. All the time.
As a matter of fact I am a supporter of Basic Income Allowance for every citizen of the whole planet to protect people from the increasing sh1t happening all the time. Automation. Outsourcing work to low wage countries. Exploiting kids in the developing world to prop up corporate profits. There are no guaranteed jobs. And wealth has been concentrated into ever fewer hands over the very recent past. The whole thing stinks.

You detailed the lack of importance of a small sandwich shop.
Now you fail to see the bigger picture,the knock on effect from all the major flag carrying airlines.

There was a line used"the remedy to the virus is worse than the virus itself"

Give me an idea how to retrain 200,000 people. Or better yet how do we give them money with a stifyled tax take.

If this continues to December, Its effects will be worse than ww1 and ww2 put together.

ch750536 · 13-09-2020 10:38AM

There is way too much focus on death in this thread. I have known 2 people with covid. One had a bad headache for 3 days (32yo female) the other was ****ed up for 3 months (46yo male). Sure, neither died. The statistic I'm trying to avoid is a member of my family being ****ed up for 3 months. I know we will most likely survive it.

We still have no idea of long term impact of this virus. It could be zero. It could be that 10% of the people who got it this year die of a heart attack next year, symptomatic or not.

The best approach to covid is the very real and factual approach. We know **** about it short, medium or long term so anything could happen. Plan your lives accordingly.

crossman47 · 13-09-2020 10:42AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so whats wrong there, why did this happen?

Almost certainly brought in by staff working in more than one location. The poor pay in nursing homes undoubtedly a factor. Once it got in, it spread rapidly. At the start all our efforts were geared at supressing the virus so hospitals would not be overrun. A valid choice but, in retrospect, too narrow.

growleaves · 13-09-2020 10:43AM

I don’t see why our authority’s can’t recommend VIT D supplements

Along with fish, mushrooms, natural light etc.

Gruffalux · 13-09-2020 10:45AM

Onesea wrote: »

You detailed the lack of importance of a small sandwich shop.
Now you fail to see the bigger picture,the knock on effect from all the major flag carrying airlines.

There was a line used"the remedy to the virus is worse than the virus itself"

Give me an idea how to retrain 200,000 people. Or better yet how do we give them money with a stifyled tax take.

If this continues to December, Its effects will be worse than ww1 and ww2 put together.

I don't know how we retrain 200,000 people. But here's an idea. One that's been around for decades. 4 day working week. Then there will be jobs for people who are losing work now. The whole economic system is based on the power based behind what we know as money - I would not even go so far as to give it the credit of saying money is fiat based, and it is a long bloody time since it was based on value - the whole system is exploitative in almost every way. The bananas we eat, the coffee and tea we drink, the rare earth minerals in the devices we use - I feel no impulse to defend any part of it. Endless corporations pushing us to buy more and more crap we do not need, including nursing those stupid looking over-sized cups of caffeine as if our lives depended on them. It is incredibly stressful for most people to part of this farce we call the productive economy.

owlbethere · 13-09-2020 10:46AM

ch750536 wrote: »

There is way too much focus on death in this thread. I have known 2 people with covid. One had a bad headache for 3 days (32yo female) the other was ****ed up for 3 months (46yo male). Sure, neither died. The statistic I'm trying to avoid is a member of my family being ****ed up for 3 months. I know we will most likely survive it.

We still have no idea of long term impact of this virus. It could be zero. It could be that 10% of the people who got it this year die of a heart attack next year, symptomatic or not.

The best approach to covid is the very real and factual approach. We know **** about it short, medium or long term so anything could happen. Plan your lives accordingly.

There's many experts here on boards.ie who have been studying this novel coronavirus for years to tell you that it's just a little cold if that for a lot of people. They graduated from the boards.ie medical school class of 2020 so they know it all now.

I agree completely agree with you by the way. Covid is best avoided and minimise risks of exposures as much as possible.

DangerScouse · 13-09-2020 10:46AM

ch750536 wrote: »

There is way too much focus on death in this thread. I have known 2 people with covid. One had a bad headache for 3 days (32yo female) the other was ****ed up for 3 months (46yo male). Sure, neither died. The statistic I'm trying to avoid is a member of my family being ****ed up for 3 months. I know we will most likely survive it.

We still have no idea of long term impact of this virus. It could be zero. It could be that 10% of the people who got it this year die of a heart attack next year, symptomatic or not.

The best approach to covid is the very real and factual approach. We know **** about it short, medium or long term so anything could happen. Plan your lives accordingly.

That's the problem with this virus, it could destroy your life or that or a loved one or you might have a mild fever or headache for a couple of days. It's taken a good 4 months from me that i'll never forget or want anyone i love to go through. It's the fear of knowing if you will ever recover fully that is the most frightening.

Onesea · 13-09-2020 10:49AM

Gruffalox wrote: »

I don't know how we retrain 200,000 people. But here's an idea. One that's been around for decades. 4 day working week. Then there will be jobs for people who are losing work now. The whole economic system is based on the power based behind what we know as money - I would not even go so far as to give it the credit of saying money is fiat based, and it is a long bloody time since it was based on value - the whole system is exploitative in almost every way. The bananas we eat, the coffee and tea we drink, the rare earth minerals in the devices we use - I feel no impulse to defend any part of it. Endless corporations pushing us to buy more and more crap we do not need, including nursing those stupid looking over-sized cups of caffeine as if our lives depended on them. It is incredibly stressful for most people to part of this farce we call the productive economy.

I agree it needs to change and the system can be different+better. However looking at the country's ability to change I have no hope. Social democrats are the only group entertaining the idea of basic income+shorter work weeks.
In a state of emergency I see the current gov too shell shocked to be creative.

stephenjmcd · 13-09-2020 10:55AM

A look across the Irish sea
https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1305047753983225858?s=19

Onesea · 13-09-2020 10:58AM

Just stop testing and put all resources into better hospitals.

petes · 13-09-2020 11:05AM

Onesea wrote: »

Just stop testing and put all resources into better hospitals.

Won't have any cases if we don't test, great!

Happydays2020 · 13-09-2020 11:10AM

petes wrote: »

Won't have any cases if we don't test, great!

We should be investing in our hospitals.

petes · 13-09-2020 11:12AM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

We should be investing in our hospitals.

Where did I say we shouldn't be?

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

Comments