Health Insurance

phormium · 12-09-2020 03:21PM

starbaby2003 wrote: »

There are more holes in this story than in a colander.

That made me laugh! Why would I make it up? How could anyone even make it up, it's exactly as it happened.

tjhook · 12-09-2020 04:28PM

ted1 wrote: »

Hopefully Slaintecare fixes it. I won’t mind paying additional taxes if it means I don’t pay for health insurance

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's how it will work.

As far as I know, everybody will have health insurance. Those that are judged as unable to afford it will get it without cost. The rest can pay for it themselves.

It's going to cost a lot of money to implement. There's plenty of marketing material showing all the improvements that are planned, but very little about what it'll cost or how it'll be funded. And it assumes there will be activities to "assess contracts and work practices". Good luck with that.

So you're likely to pay those additional taxes *as well as* your health insurance premium. And it might be for a lower set of benefits than you currently pay for.

Geuze · 12-09-2020 09:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless you're in bad health, health insurance is a total scam.

If you're in bad health, you'll be well looked after by public system.

All in all, private healthcare is a waste of money and thankfully more and more people are discovering this.

We're an outlier in Europe with our two-tier system and we routinely rank near the bottom when it comes to healthcare.

Note that in France and Germany, much of the provision of healthcare is by a mix of providers, not 100% by the State.

The whole pop have health insurance, yes, and the Govt regulate that, yes, but the actual provision is not done purely by the State.

Geuze · 12-09-2020 09:47PM

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Say for instance you have no insurance and you are feeling unwell eg fatigue, malaise etc. You go to your gp requesting blood tests which show abnormalities such as anaemia etc. You request a CT ( costing about €100 & done immediately)scan privately as you are in pain. The CT Radiologist's report detects a mass indicative of a tumour. Your GP refers you to an oncologist / Surgeon querying Cancer. Surely you are seen immediately as time is of the essence in diagnosis.

What is the difference in this situation to a person having private insurance, apart from choosing your own consultant or a private hospital.

I assume both cases would be treated as quickly or is this being naive?

The GP refers you to an oncologist.

It is at this point that you choose to become either a public or private patient.

Geuze · 12-09-2020 09:50PM

tjhook wrote: »

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's how it will work.

As far as I know, everybody will have health insurance. Those that are judged as unable to afford it will get it without cost. The rest can pay for it themselves.

It's going to cost a lot of money to implement. There's plenty of marketing material showing all the improvements that are planned, but very little about what it'll cost or how it'll be funded. And it assumes there will be activities to "assess contracts and work practices". Good luck with that.

So you're likely to pay those additional taxes *as well as* your health insurance premium. And it might be for a lower set of benefits than you currently pay for.

Slaintecare is NOT insurance.

The previous FG/Labour 2011 proposal was UHI = Universal Health Insurance. That plan was abandoned.

The current plan, with cross-party support, is Slaintecare. Tax-financed.

It is an extension/expansion of the HSE, to be more like the NHS I suppose.

The plan is to remove private care from public hosps.

If the waiting times are reduced to the Slaintcare targets, then it is expected that some people will drop their health ins.

riclad · 12-09-2020 10:09PM

Yes once you get into a hospital you will get a good standard of care, if you have private insurance you can see a consultant very quickly .
Outside of an emergency the public system has long waiting lists for certain operations or to see a consultant
And medical insurance here is not very expensive

bnt · 12-09-2020 10:15PM

If you read the terms and conditions on private health insurance, you’ll see some severe restrictions on coverage of pre-existing conditions for years after you sign up. It’s understandable, you can’t expect them to immediately offer premium treatment of that chronic skin problem, for example. You can’t forget that private companies exist to make a profit and put a lot of time and effort in to ensuring that will usually happen. Actuaries are highly sought-after and very well-paid, and that cost is passed on.

The_Brood · 12-09-2020 10:20PM

biko wrote: »

That's pretty much every society at any time.

Nope, try again. The social contract Ireland, the EU, and generally the west has been sold on is that human rights are essential and no human being deserves to live more than another. This is how *technically* a free, democratic society is supposed to work. This is the reason why politicians, corporations etc expect us to stay home, eat our chips, indulge in entertainment, and not go out burning cars, sacking governments and engaging in all out revolution - because they want us to see society as adhering to this contract.

Yet clearly that social contract is broken all the time in Ireland and many places in the west, but (until we or our loved ones get seriously sick) we continue playing by their rules obediently allowing them to do whatever they want.

That's a huge problem and it will require huge actions to remedy.

irishblessing · 12-09-2020 10:25PM

biko wrote: »

That's pretty much every society at any time.

Definitely not Canada anyway.

Yyhhuuu · 13-09-2020 01:26AM

Geuze wrote: »

The GP refers you to an oncologist.

It is at this point that you choose to become either a public or private patient.

You misunderstood my question which was what is the difference between being a private patient and a public patient as regards speed of access to treatment for a serious illness like cancer once one is armed with a serious result from a privately paid for medical investigation.
We know it is the GP who refers to a consultant physician or consultant surgeon and we know that private patients can chose their consultant and their hospital.

Tony EH · 13-09-2020 08:41AM

inthenip wrote: »

Thinking of signing up at 80 euro a month as employer doesn't cover it unfortunately.

It just scares the bejaysus where you coud be waiting six months or longer for a scan to confirm cancer or even longer for an operation to remove a tumour on public health while private could be seen in two weeks.

Is it worth getting these days? I'm 34 by the way.

Guess again. It doesn't necessarily work that way.

JustAThought · 13-09-2020 08:48AM

inthenip wrote: »

How bad is the public health system these days really is what i'm asking?

BAD and you have to have your full wits about you to get it and not just the medical crumbs their costsaving syatem is prepared to grant you. Plus you rarely get to see an actual qualified specialist - just an inexperienced unsupervised trainee who may not have learned your symptoms yet. You wouldn’t bring a BMW to someone with no skills, experience, or qualifications in fixing cars - why woiod tou do this with your wife/partner/child/self.

apparently the law changed a few years ago and anyone can now opt into groip schemes on offer to different organisations even if you arn’t a member of that group/organisation. Might be worth following up - e80 is a lot. But 3 or 4 months for a scan and then to join another list to wait another 3 or 4 months to see anconsultant who has ‘read’ the scan is a long wait....and you havn’t even started the treatment yet or had as much as a painkiller...

Darc19 · 13-09-2020 09:00AM

JustAThought wrote: »

BAD and you have to have your full wits about you to get it and not just the medical crumbs their costsaving syatem is prepared to grant you. Plus you rarely get to see an actual qualified specialist - just an inexperienced unsupervised trainee who may not have learned your symptoms yet. You wouldn’t bring a BMW to someone with no skills, experience, or qualifications in fixing cars - why woiod tou do this with your wife/partner/child/self.

apparently the law changed a few years ago and anyone can now opt into groip schemes on offer to different organisations even if you arn’t a member of that group/organisation. Might be worth following up - e80 is a lot. But 3 or 4 months for a scan and then to join another list to wait another 3 or 4 months to see anconsultant who has ‘read’ the scan is a long wait....and you havn’t even started the treatment yet or had as much as a painkiller...

Law never changed. You always had the option to join any scheme on offer.

Public system is fine for serious or emergency issues. It's they non urgent issues that are a problem and a massive number of people who don't turn up for appointments

My father in law has had chemotherapy for the past year and got the all clear and couldn't sing the praises of the hospital loud enough.

A friend had a knee injury and again couldn't fault it.

People love banging the drums as it riles up others. Tabloids in particular love to do it as they know their readers will believe any sh1te they write.

riclad · 13-09-2020 09:09AM

If you can afford it health insurance is worth paying for , people under 30 may not know the difference public versus private medical care as they may be in good health. Once you are over 40 it becomes more important. Every winter there's articles in the paper re people left on trolleys in hospitals.
This year could be bad as we also have covid crisis to deal with.
Most non urgent operations in public hospitals have been canceled to deal with covid patients.

irishblessing · 13-09-2020 09:47AM

Darc19 wrote: »

Law never changed. You always had the option to join any scheme on offer.

Public system is fine for serious or emergency issues. It's they non urgent issues that are a problem and a massive number of people who don't turn up for appointments

My father in law has had chemotherapy for the past year and got the all clear and couldn't sing the praises of the hospital loud enough.

A friend had a knee injury and again couldn't fault it.

People love banging the drums as it riles up others. Tabloids in particular love to do it as they know their readers will believe any sh1te they write.

My sister has had cervix pain the past few months and symptoms for the past 4 months and finally just gave in to go private for an exam and was seen 3 days later at a private appointment. The heart palpitations she's been having is apparently going to have to wait anywhere from a year to year and a half by their best estimates. Unless she goes private again of course. Meanwhile these underlying symptoms could be worsening disease in her body. The public health system is a shambles in lots of ways.

Bang that drum why don't you.

gerard2210 · 13-09-2020 10:26AM

enfant terrible wrote: »

I think what Sally is asking is if without health insurance you pay the few hundred euros for the private scans and see the consultant, are you then no worse off than the person with health insurance.

Will you then be put on the same list as the person with health insurance for your operation, kinda like your playing the system.

If you pay for the scans yourself, and the consultant you see also deals with public patients he might be able to move you up his list if he thinks you're an urgent case. If you pay for scans and are put back on the public list under a different consultant, you could be waiting 12 months to see the consultant, he might then ask for more up to date scans making your wait even longer.
Insurance is worth it IMHO. I pay about 3,000 a year for the family, might get 600-700 back on everyday medical claims. I'd probably blow the 3,000 on a week in Spain if I wasn't paying insurance.
The peace of mind from knowing I have health insurance is worth the 3,000.

Eggs For Dinner · 13-09-2020 02:16PM

I think a lot of people are under the misapprehension that if they pay privately for a consultant and scans, that somehow they avoid the public waiting list if a problem is discovered

Yyhhuuu · 14-09-2020 02:19AM

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

I think a lot of people are under the misapprehension that if they pay privately for a consultant and scans, that somehow they avoid the public waiting list if a problem is discovered

As a public patient If you have privately obtained scans or other investigations strongly suggestive of a life threatening illness like cancer your gp urgently refers you to a consultant eg an oncologist or to hospital.

The consultants waiting list is prioritised based on clinical need. Surely you would be seen immediately as an urgent referral if you have an investigation eg. Abdominal or thoracic ct scan indicating a large mass query cancer. If not you attend the ED and you will most certainly be admitted armed with these results.. It would be gross negligence to not admit a patient in these circumstances.

Large public teaching hospitals with multi disciplinary specialities on hand examine a patient with complex clinical needs and can offer superior care to a seriously ill patient than a private hospital which may not have the staff or equipment available. Private hospitals transfer seriously I'll patients to public hospitals. I would have more confidence in a large teaching hospital than a glorified hotel.

Eggs For Dinner · 14-09-2020 07:27AM

I'm not saying it is right or fair, but the system doesn't work like that.

irishblessing · 14-09-2020 08:55AM

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

As a public patient If you have privately obtained scans or other investigations strongly suggestive of a life threatening illness like cancer your gp urgently refers you to a consultant eg an oncologist or to hospital.

The consultants waiting list is prioritised based on clinical need. Surely you would be seen immediately as an urgent referral if you have an investigation eg. Abdominal or thoracic ct scan indicating a large mass query cancer. If not you attend the ED and you will most certainly be admitted armed with these results.. It would be gross negligence to not admit a patient in these circumstances.

Large public teaching hospitals with multi disciplinary specialities on hand examine a patient with complex clinical needs and can offer superior care to a seriously ill patient than a private hospital which may not have the staff or equipment available. Private hospitals transfer seriously I'll patients to public hospitals. I would have more confidence in a large teaching hospital than a glorified hotel.

We need to be better at treating early onset of symptoms and prevention before people become seriously ill. Waiting until people are seriously ill and treatment is more difficult as is the recovery (if they do indeed recover) is what is gross negligence.

starbaby2003 · 14-09-2020 09:31AM

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

As a public patient If you have privately obtained scans or other investigations strongly suggestive of a life threatening illness like cancer your gp urgently refers you to a consultant eg an oncologist or to hospital.

The consultants waiting list is prioritised based on clinical need. Surely you would be seen immediately as an urgent referral if you have an investigation eg. Abdominal or thoracic ct scan indicating a large mass query cancer. If not you attend the ED and you will most certainly be admitted armed with these results.. It would be gross negligence to not admit a patient in these circumstances.

Large public teaching hospitals with multi disciplinary specialities on hand examine a patient with complex clinical needs and can offer superior care to a seriously ill patient than a private hospital which may not have the staff or equipment available. Private hospitals transfer seriously I'll patients to public hospitals. I would have more confidence in a large teaching hospital than a glorified hotel.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that urgent public care in this country is not excellent. The problem is and always has been non urgent care, which can unfortunately can turn into urgent needs when left undiagnosed/treated. It also increases the likelihood of needing follow on care. The alternative to your above is the surgeon sees nothing but recommends ten more non urgent scans. Do you continue to fund these yourself or do you go back to the public system. Like it or not, there is very much a two tier system in play. If you can afford it, get health insurance.

Blush_01 · 24-09-2020 12:57PM

enfant terrible wrote: »

That's what I mean once you pay privately for the consultant will he then put you in as a public patient meaning you dont pay a penny more?

And your on the same waiting list for an operation as the person paying health insurance all his life?

No, if you pay privately, you're private. You may be seen in private rooms, but you can't "skip" the public queue for a consultation fee, and then get the treatment publicly. Otherwise why would any of us have private health insurance?

KilOit · 24-09-2020 01:50PM

Complete scam giving the top 1% even more money, it's so abused by consultants, i'd happily pay more taxes to rid the country of cancerous insurance companies, they will always increase profits every year

Health Insurance

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