Health Insurance

inthenip

Thinking of signing up at 80 euro a month as employer doesn't cover it unfortunately.

It just scares the bejaysus where you coud be waiting six months or longer for a scan to confirm cancer or even longer for an operation to remove a tumour on public health while private could be seen in two weeks.

Is it worth getting these days? I'm 34 by the way.

pgj2015

inthenip wrote: »

Thinking of signing up at 80 euro a month as employer doesn't cover it unfortunately.

It just scares the bejaysus where you coud be waiting six months or longer for a scan to confirm cancer or even longer for an operation to remove a tumour on public health while private could be seen in two weeks.

Is it worth getting these days? I'm 34 by the way.

You kind of answered your own question there.

JethroC

Don't you just love the society we live in

The rich have a better chance of living and the poor have a better chance of dying

inthenip

pgj2015 wrote: »

You kind of answered your own question there.

How bad is the public health system these days really is what i'm asking?

biko

JethroC wrote: »

Don't you just love the society we live in

The rich have a better chance of living and the poor have a better chance of dying

That's pretty much every society at any time.

Gregor Samsa

This is from the end of 2019, so doesn't take into account the effect of Covid 19

"The average wait for a brain MRI through the public system is 126 days, the report points out, while private patients wait just six days."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/public-patient-waits-120-days-more-than-private-one-for-brain-scan-1.4073560

The report the article is based on wasn't specifically about public/private wait times, but the issue is touched upon.

eviltwin

inthenip wrote: »

How bad is the public health system these days really is what i'm asking?

Once your in it you are looked after very well. It’s the waiting to be diagnosed or treated that’s a problem.

ednwireland

company i work for was sold to an american company, so i now get healthcare (first time ever), they pay all of it but i get hit for €40 a month BIK, pre existing conditions covered.

last time i was in hospital the only thing i would have got quicker was scans as ct scanner was out in letterkenny and they didnt have an MRI. so might have been useful - fortunately i healed myself

Stone Deaf 4evr

Its not just the panic stations stuff that it covers though, I've a family history of cancer, so was naturally alarmed when I discovered a few lumps under my skin.

Got referred by my GP and had them looked at, taken out and tested,within a fortnight and thankfully, nothing more than a type of cyst, but I'd be left whistling in the public system.
I've also availed of cardio screening and have access to a sort of private A&E, so no messing about it waiting rooms for minor to moderate injuries.

joeguevara

JethroC wrote: »

Don't you just love the society we live in

The rich have a better chance of living and the poor have a better chance of dying

So 80 euro a month is, in your words, the cut off of being rich?

pgj2015

just say you don't have health insurance and you get sick or need a scan etc, can you then throw money at it to get a quicker scan?

Greyfox

inthenip wrote: »

Is it worth getting these days? I'm 34 by the way.

If your in very good health it's not worth getting, it could easily be a waste of money

odyssey06

If you sign up now - under 35 - you avoid community rating loading.

inthenip

odyssey06 wrote: »

If you sign up now - under 35 - you avoid community rating loading.

Please explain more!

Gregor Samsa

inthenip wrote: »

Please explain more!

Community Rating is is the term used for charging those who first get health insurance from the age of 35 a premium over the cost that those under 35 pay. If you get cover before you’re 35, you don’t pay any extra, even after you turn 35. If you get health insurance for the first time after 35, a sliding scale of increases applies depending on your age when you first take out a policy, of 2% a year up to a max of 70%.

Example from Laya’s site:

When you first take out insurance:

If you're 34 or below, you won't have to pay any extra
If you're 37, you'll pay 3 years x 2% = 6% extra
If you're 54, you'll pay 20 years x 2% = 40% extra
If you're 69 or above, you'll pay 35 years x 2% = 70% extra


It’s designed to incentivise people to take up private health insurance early (when they don’t generally need it) rather than when they’re older (when there’s more chance they’ll need it), and to recoup some of the costs from older initial adopters.

So if you’re planning on getting health insurance, it might make sense to get it before you turn 35, as your premiums will less than if you leave it to later.

You can switch providers (before or after 35) and retain your “lifetime community rating”, but if you have a break in cover, you lose it (with some exceptions).

Full details here: https://www.hia.ie/consumer-information/lifetime-community-rating-explained

odyssey06

Plus to get your money's worth your fellow boardsies can arrange an accident resulting in hospitalisation.

* offer valid after hours only

sallyanne12

But what I don’t understand is: Can’t anyone go private if they just pay the money? Like for example, If you have a problem and you have private health insurance, you get referred to a specialist consultant and pay for it. If you are public, you get referred to private specialist consultant if you also pay? I don’t understand the difference...

enfant terrible

sallyanne12 wrote: »

But what I don’t understand is: Can’t anyone go private if they just pay the money? Like for example, If you have a problem and you have private health insurance, you get referred to a specialist consultant and pay for it. If you are public, you get referred to private specialist consultant if you also pay? I don’t understand the difference...

I was wondering that too. Say you have a problem and have no health insurance and need a scan, if you pay privately for the scan are you then put on the same list for treatment as the person paying for private insurance, or are you put on a different list?

phormium

Because if you need something big done it costs huge bucks, easy to pay for the consultants visit, not so easy pay for an op plus doc costs plus hospital bed. Even the not so big are expensive enough, yes you might have saved enough if you put away the insurance premium every year instead of buying the insurance but it's still a gamble and if you were to need follow ups or ongoing stuff.

Anyway all I know is some of the hospital bills I have seen for family situations have been up to 40k, thankfully they had insurance and that was just a fairly common non life threatening sort of op.

You can go pay for the consultant but then you end up back on the public list, that's not the same place as being able to go to a private hospital and get it done sooner!

enfant terrible

phormium wrote: »

Because if you need something big done it costs huge bucks, easy to pay for the consultants visit, not so easy pay for an op plus doc costs plus hospital bed. Even the not so big are expensive enough, yes you might have saved enough if you put away the insurance premium every year instead of buying the insurance but it's still a gamble and if you were to need follow ups or ongoing stuff.

Anyway all I know is some of the hospital bills I have seen for family situations have been up to 40k, thankfully they had insurance and that was just a fairly common non life threatening sort of op.

But say you pay for the scans privately are you then put on a public list for the operation?

And if you have private insurance you are put on a private list for an operation?

vixdname

if you can pay for scans \ treatment out of your own pocket youll get it quicker than public of course.
Bare in mind hospital overnight charges, even in public hospitals can be many €100 of euro per night, add on diagnostics (MRI, CT) etc plus consultants fees, plus surgery, plus anaesthetist fees etc and your talking €1000s.

phormium

enfant terrible wrote: »

But say you pay for the scans privately are you then put on a public list for the operation?

And if you have private insurance you are put on a private list for an operation?

Very often different hospitals, if you have private insurance and assuming you chose one that covers private hospitals then you go ahead as soon as possible, there isn't even really a list other than when is an operating space free. It's certainly nothing like a public list for the public hospital which is a real list, depending on procedure can be many months long.

To the best of my knowledge and I'm open to correction obviously if you pay for your own scan and the consultant you are dealing with works also in a public hospital then you can be added to their list, if you have chosen a consultant who only works in private hospital then you will have to go on the list to see public consultant again first although with a result already from a scan you might get bumped up the list if it indicates a problem. In reality I don't know how that works as have never tried it.

The public system is brilliant once you are in there, great for emergencies obviously but it's the getting in there if you are not an obvious emergency and who knows that without the diagnostic test that there might be a long list for!

Gregor Samsa

sallyanne12 wrote: »

But what I don’t understand is: Can’t anyone go private if they just pay the money? Like for example, If you have a problem and you have private health insurance, you get referred to a specialist consultant and pay for it. If you are public, you get referred to private specialist consultant if you also pay? I don’t understand the difference...

You can. Remember, it’s insurance - you’re paying to hedge against a risk. If the risk is low that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be cheaper to forgo insurance and pay for what does come up privately. If the risk is moderate or high that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be a better bet to have the cover.

The problem is that you never can be certain of what’s ahead. I could handle the cost of breaking my leg by paying out of my own pocket. But I wouldn’t like to get a cancer diagnosis without private health insurance - the cost of paying for the scans and tests, and then to get yourself out of the public waiting lists for treatment would probably be more than your health insurance premiums over your entire life.

phormium

I think for those that remember the Susie Long case was one of the best descriptions of how public/private works or rather doesn't work! It's a good few years ago but don't think much has changed. A quick google gives me this info but I remember her on Joe Duffy show and it was an awful story that could probably have had a different outcome!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Susie_Long

enfant terrible

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

You can. Remember, it’s insurance - you’re paying to hedge against a risk. If the risk is low that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be cheaper to forgo insurance and pay for what does come up privately. If the risk is moderate or high that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be a better bet to have the cover.

The problem is that you never can be certain of what’s ahead. I could handle the cost of breaking my leg by paying out of my own pocket. But I wouldn’t like to get a cancer diagnosis without private health insurance - the cost of paying for the scans and tests, and then to get yourself out of the public waiting lists for treatment would probably be more than your health insurance premiums over your entire life.

Are there public and private lists for cancer treatment?

inthenip

enfant terrible wrote: »

Are there public and private lists for cancer treatment?

Cancer treatment is a strange one, its the diagnosis is the main issue on public.

You could be waiting a year for a colonoscopy on public and private you could be seen in less a month.

If you needed an operation to remove a tumour you could be seen within a month on private and six months or longer on pubic.

**Did a bit more research since my OP.

auspicious

Insurance insures against a huge bill.
Get it if you can.

sallyanne12

phormium wrote: »

I think for those that remember the Susie Long case was one of the best descriptions of how public/private works or rather doesn't work! It's a good few years ago but don't think much has changed. A quick google gives me this info but I remember her on Joe Duffy show and it was an awful story that could probably have had a different outcome!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Susie_Long

But could she not have paid privately for her colonoscopy even though she had no health insurance?

To the poster who said they wouldn’t like to get a cancer diagnosis without private health insurance because of the costs of scans and tests, Surely that wouldn’t be too expensive to pay yourself? I mean it would just be a once off scan and test etc. And then the treatment is free anyway if I’m correct? How long would it you be waiting for cancer treatment publicly v privately? And what’s the price difference?

corner of hells

odyssey06 wrote: »

Plus to get your money's worth your fellow boardsies can arrange an accident resulting in hospitalisation.

* offer valid after hours only

Interested , I've a door off a Ford fiesta, would you take that as part exchange?

Blush_01

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

You can. Remember, it’s insurance - you’re paying to hedge against a risk. If the risk is low that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be cheaper to forgo insurance and pay for what does come up privately. If the risk is moderate or high that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be a better bet to have the cover.

The problem is that you never can be certain of what’s ahead. I could handle the cost of breaking my leg by paying out of my own pocket. But I wouldn’t like to get a cancer diagnosis without private health insurance - the cost of paying for the scans and tests, and then to get yourself out of the public waiting lists for treatment would probably be more than your health insurance premiums over your entire life.

Got an unexpected thing 11 months ago. Treatment for that alone has seen me save money by having health insurance - and it was a minor thing. I'd still be waiting for my first public appointment with the specialist. IMHO, I'd never be without it. Not with my family history.

phormium

sallyanne12 wrote: »

But could she not have paid privately for her colonoscopy even though she had no health insurance?
?

She could have I imagine but unless she then had the money to follow through in the private system and pay out for treatment which I imagine very few people have then she would have to go on the public waiting list for treatment anyway so kind of back to square one.

I totally believe the public system is fine once you get into it but for anything it's getting the diagnosis that is the problem to get into it with the waiting lists for consultant appointments and diagnostic tests. That might not be the end of the world for something like a hip replacement or cataract op which while deteriorating conditions are not life threatening but could make a huge difference if it is a life threatening condition.

If you can't afford health insurance then it's a moot point but if you can then it comes down to your attitude to risk, lots of people don't have life insurance either and get away with it as they don't end up dying young but again it's how you see risk. They say the person who buys one insurance policy will buy seven as they are that sort of person others live life with just the compulsory car insurance and never buy any other type of insurance.

It seems you can skip ahead a bit by paying to see a consultant that works in public hospital too but you are still on the list for the treatment as such, according to this article anyway https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/revealed-how-public-patients-can-pay-to-jump-waiting-lists-37671927.html#:~:text=If%20surgery%20is%20necessary%20they%20are%20placed%20on%20the%20public%20surgery%20list.&text=In%20response%20the%20HSE%20said,publicly%20in%20that%20public%20hospital.%22