Health Insurance

inthenip

Thinking of signing up at 80 euro a month as employer doesn't cover it unfortunately.

It just scares the bejaysus where you coud be waiting six months or longer for a scan to confirm cancer or even longer for an operation to remove a tumour on public health while private could be seen in two weeks.

Is it worth getting these days? I'm 34 by the way.

pgj2015

inthenip wrote: »

Thinking of signing up at 80 euro a month as employer doesn't cover it unfortunately.

It just scares the bejaysus where you coud be waiting six months or longer for a scan to confirm cancer or even longer for an operation to remove a tumour on public health while private could be seen in two weeks.

Is it worth getting these days? I'm 34 by the way.

You kind of answered your own question there.

JethroC

Don't you just love the society we live in

The rich have a better chance of living and the poor have a better chance of dying

inthenip

pgj2015 wrote: »

You kind of answered your own question there.

How bad is the public health system these days really is what i'm asking?

biko

JethroC wrote: »

Don't you just love the society we live in

The rich have a better chance of living and the poor have a better chance of dying

That's pretty much every society at any time.

Gregor Samsa

This is from the end of 2019, so doesn't take into account the effect of Covid 19

"The average wait for a brain MRI through the public system is 126 days, the report points out, while private patients wait just six days."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/public-patient-waits-120-days-more-than-private-one-for-brain-scan-1.4073560

The report the article is based on wasn't specifically about public/private wait times, but the issue is touched upon.

eviltwin

inthenip wrote: »

How bad is the public health system these days really is what i'm asking?

Once your in it you are looked after very well. It’s the waiting to be diagnosed or treated that’s a problem.

ednwireland

company i work for was sold to an american company, so i now get healthcare (first time ever), they pay all of it but i get hit for €40 a month BIK, pre existing conditions covered.

last time i was in hospital the only thing i would have got quicker was scans as ct scanner was out in letterkenny and they didnt have an MRI. so might have been useful - fortunately i healed myself

Stone Deaf 4evr

Its not just the panic stations stuff that it covers though, I've a family history of cancer, so was naturally alarmed when I discovered a few lumps under my skin.

Got referred by my GP and had them looked at, taken out and tested,within a fortnight and thankfully, nothing more than a type of cyst, but I'd be left whistling in the public system.
I've also availed of cardio screening and have access to a sort of private A&E, so no messing about it waiting rooms for minor to moderate injuries.

joeguevara

JethroC wrote: »

Don't you just love the society we live in

The rich have a better chance of living and the poor have a better chance of dying

So 80 euro a month is, in your words, the cut off of being rich?

pgj2015

just say you don't have health insurance and you get sick or need a scan etc, can you then throw money at it to get a quicker scan?

Greyfox

inthenip wrote: »

Is it worth getting these days? I'm 34 by the way.

If your in very good health it's not worth getting, it could easily be a waste of money

odyssey06

If you sign up now - under 35 - you avoid community rating loading.

inthenip

odyssey06 wrote: »

If you sign up now - under 35 - you avoid community rating loading.

Please explain more!

Gregor Samsa

inthenip wrote: »

Please explain more!

Community Rating is is the term used for charging those who first get health insurance from the age of 35 a premium over the cost that those under 35 pay. If you get cover before you’re 35, you don’t pay any extra, even after you turn 35. If you get health insurance for the first time after 35, a sliding scale of increases applies depending on your age when you first take out a policy, of 2% a year up to a max of 70%.

Example from Laya’s site:

When you first take out insurance:

If you're 34 or below, you won't have to pay any extra
If you're 37, you'll pay 3 years x 2% = 6% extra
If you're 54, you'll pay 20 years x 2% = 40% extra
If you're 69 or above, you'll pay 35 years x 2% = 70% extra


It’s designed to incentivise people to take up private health insurance early (when they don’t generally need it) rather than when they’re older (when there’s more chance they’ll need it), and to recoup some of the costs from older initial adopters.

So if you’re planning on getting health insurance, it might make sense to get it before you turn 35, as your premiums will less than if you leave it to later.

You can switch providers (before or after 35) and retain your “lifetime community rating”, but if you have a break in cover, you lose it (with some exceptions).

Full details here: https://www.hia.ie/consumer-information/lifetime-community-rating-explained

odyssey06

Plus to get your money's worth your fellow boardsies can arrange an accident resulting in hospitalisation.

* offer valid after hours only

sallyanne12

But what I don’t understand is: Can’t anyone go private if they just pay the money? Like for example, If you have a problem and you have private health insurance, you get referred to a specialist consultant and pay for it. If you are public, you get referred to private specialist consultant if you also pay? I don’t understand the difference...

enfant terrible

sallyanne12 wrote: »

But what I don’t understand is: Can’t anyone go private if they just pay the money? Like for example, If you have a problem and you have private health insurance, you get referred to a specialist consultant and pay for it. If you are public, you get referred to private specialist consultant if you also pay? I don’t understand the difference...

I was wondering that too. Say you have a problem and have no health insurance and need a scan, if you pay privately for the scan are you then put on the same list for treatment as the person paying for private insurance, or are you put on a different list?

phormium

Because if you need something big done it costs huge bucks, easy to pay for the consultants visit, not so easy pay for an op plus doc costs plus hospital bed. Even the not so big are expensive enough, yes you might have saved enough if you put away the insurance premium every year instead of buying the insurance but it's still a gamble and if you were to need follow ups or ongoing stuff.

Anyway all I know is some of the hospital bills I have seen for family situations have been up to 40k, thankfully they had insurance and that was just a fairly common non life threatening sort of op.

You can go pay for the consultant but then you end up back on the public list, that's not the same place as being able to go to a private hospital and get it done sooner!

enfant terrible

phormium wrote: »

Because if you need something big done it costs huge bucks, easy to pay for the consultants visit, not so easy pay for an op plus doc costs plus hospital bed. Even the not so big are expensive enough, yes you might have saved enough if you put away the insurance premium every year instead of buying the insurance but it's still a gamble and if you were to need follow ups or ongoing stuff.

Anyway all I know is some of the hospital bills I have seen for family situations have been up to 40k, thankfully they had insurance and that was just a fairly common non life threatening sort of op.

But say you pay for the scans privately are you then put on a public list for the operation?

And if you have private insurance you are put on a private list for an operation?

vixdname

if you can pay for scans \ treatment out of your own pocket youll get it quicker than public of course.
Bare in mind hospital overnight charges, even in public hospitals can be many €100 of euro per night, add on diagnostics (MRI, CT) etc plus consultants fees, plus surgery, plus anaesthetist fees etc and your talking €1000s.

phormium

enfant terrible wrote: »

But say you pay for the scans privately are you then put on a public list for the operation?

And if you have private insurance you are put on a private list for an operation?

Very often different hospitals, if you have private insurance and assuming you chose one that covers private hospitals then you go ahead as soon as possible, there isn't even really a list other than when is an operating space free. It's certainly nothing like a public list for the public hospital which is a real list, depending on procedure can be many months long.

To the best of my knowledge and I'm open to correction obviously if you pay for your own scan and the consultant you are dealing with works also in a public hospital then you can be added to their list, if you have chosen a consultant who only works in private hospital then you will have to go on the list to see public consultant again first although with a result already from a scan you might get bumped up the list if it indicates a problem. In reality I don't know how that works as have never tried it.

The public system is brilliant once you are in there, great for emergencies obviously but it's the getting in there if you are not an obvious emergency and who knows that without the diagnostic test that there might be a long list for!

Gregor Samsa

sallyanne12 wrote: »

But what I don’t understand is: Can’t anyone go private if they just pay the money? Like for example, If you have a problem and you have private health insurance, you get referred to a specialist consultant and pay for it. If you are public, you get referred to private specialist consultant if you also pay? I don’t understand the difference...

You can. Remember, it’s insurance - you’re paying to hedge against a risk. If the risk is low that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be cheaper to forgo insurance and pay for what does come up privately. If the risk is moderate or high that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be a better bet to have the cover.

The problem is that you never can be certain of what’s ahead. I could handle the cost of breaking my leg by paying out of my own pocket. But I wouldn’t like to get a cancer diagnosis without private health insurance - the cost of paying for the scans and tests, and then to get yourself out of the public waiting lists for treatment would probably be more than your health insurance premiums over your entire life.

phormium

I think for those that remember the Susie Long case was one of the best descriptions of how public/private works or rather doesn't work! It's a good few years ago but don't think much has changed. A quick google gives me this info but I remember her on Joe Duffy show and it was an awful story that could probably have had a different outcome!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Susie_Long

enfant terrible

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

You can. Remember, it’s insurance - you’re paying to hedge against a risk. If the risk is low that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be cheaper to forgo insurance and pay for what does come up privately. If the risk is moderate or high that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be a better bet to have the cover.

The problem is that you never can be certain of what’s ahead. I could handle the cost of breaking my leg by paying out of my own pocket. But I wouldn’t like to get a cancer diagnosis without private health insurance - the cost of paying for the scans and tests, and then to get yourself out of the public waiting lists for treatment would probably be more than your health insurance premiums over your entire life.

Are there public and private lists for cancer treatment?

inthenip

enfant terrible wrote: »

Are there public and private lists for cancer treatment?

Cancer treatment is a strange one, its the diagnosis is the main issue on public.

You could be waiting a year for a colonoscopy on public and private you could be seen in less a month.

If you needed an operation to remove a tumour you could be seen within a month on private and six months or longer on pubic.

**Did a bit more research since my OP.

auspicious

Insurance insures against a huge bill.
Get it if you can.

sallyanne12

phormium wrote: »

I think for those that remember the Susie Long case was one of the best descriptions of how public/private works or rather doesn't work! It's a good few years ago but don't think much has changed. A quick google gives me this info but I remember her on Joe Duffy show and it was an awful story that could probably have had a different outcome!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Susie_Long

But could she not have paid privately for her colonoscopy even though she had no health insurance?

To the poster who said they wouldn’t like to get a cancer diagnosis without private health insurance because of the costs of scans and tests, Surely that wouldn’t be too expensive to pay yourself? I mean it would just be a once off scan and test etc. And then the treatment is free anyway if I’m correct? How long would it you be waiting for cancer treatment publicly v privately? And what’s the price difference?

corner of hells

odyssey06 wrote: »

Plus to get your money's worth your fellow boardsies can arrange an accident resulting in hospitalisation.

* offer valid after hours only

Interested , I've a door off a Ford fiesta, would you take that as part exchange?

Blush_01

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

You can. Remember, it’s insurance - you’re paying to hedge against a risk. If the risk is low that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be cheaper to forgo insurance and pay for what does come up privately. If the risk is moderate or high that you’ll need diagnosis or treatment, it may be a better bet to have the cover.

The problem is that you never can be certain of what’s ahead. I could handle the cost of breaking my leg by paying out of my own pocket. But I wouldn’t like to get a cancer diagnosis without private health insurance - the cost of paying for the scans and tests, and then to get yourself out of the public waiting lists for treatment would probably be more than your health insurance premiums over your entire life.

Got an unexpected thing 11 months ago. Treatment for that alone has seen me save money by having health insurance - and it was a minor thing. I'd still be waiting for my first public appointment with the specialist. IMHO, I'd never be without it. Not with my family history.

phormium

sallyanne12 wrote: »

But could she not have paid privately for her colonoscopy even though she had no health insurance?
?

She could have I imagine but unless she then had the money to follow through in the private system and pay out for treatment which I imagine very few people have then she would have to go on the public waiting list for treatment anyway so kind of back to square one.

I totally believe the public system is fine once you get into it but for anything it's getting the diagnosis that is the problem to get into it with the waiting lists for consultant appointments and diagnostic tests. That might not be the end of the world for something like a hip replacement or cataract op which while deteriorating conditions are not life threatening but could make a huge difference if it is a life threatening condition.

If you can't afford health insurance then it's a moot point but if you can then it comes down to your attitude to risk, lots of people don't have life insurance either and get away with it as they don't end up dying young but again it's how you see risk. They say the person who buys one insurance policy will buy seven as they are that sort of person others live life with just the compulsory car insurance and never buy any other type of insurance.

It seems you can skip ahead a bit by paying to see a consultant that works in public hospital too but you are still on the list for the treatment as such, according to this article anyway https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/revealed-how-public-patients-can-pay-to-jump-waiting-lists-37671927.html#:~:text=If%20surgery%20is%20necessary%20they%20are%20placed%20on%20the%20public%20surgery%20list.&text=In%20response%20the%20HSE%20said,publicly%20in%20that%20public%20hospital.%22

shockwave

enfant terrible wrote: »

But say you pay for the scans privately are you then put on a public list for the operation?

The answer is yes because I did this myself a few years ago.

I paid around €180 for an ultrasound scan the results went back to my GP and I was put on the public waiting list (was nothing serious thank christ)

Geuze

sallyanne12 wrote: »

But what I don’t understand is: Can’t anyone go private if they just pay the money? Like for example, If you have a problem and you have private health insurance, you get referred to a specialist consultant and pay for it. If you are public, you get referred to private specialist consultant if you also pay? I don’t understand the difference...

Yes, of course, you can pay for private care yourself.

Geuze

sallyanne12 wrote: »

But could she not have paid privately for her colonoscopy even though she had no health insurance?

Yes, she could.

Geuze

sallyanne12 wrote: »

To the poster who said they wouldn’t like to get a cancer diagnosis without private health insurance because of the costs of scans and tests, Surely that wouldn’t be too expensive to pay yourself? I mean it would just be a once off scan and test etc. And then the treatment is free anyway if I’m correct? How long would it you be waiting for cancer treatment publicly v privately? And what’s the price difference?

I don't know if you can switch back and forth between public and private treatment.

If you are referred by a GP, and pay for scan/test yourself, then you a private patient.

JethroC

joeguevara wrote: »

So 80 euro a month is, in your words, the cut off of being rich?

A lot of people can't afford 960 a year for health insurance so to them people who can are certainly richer

Trigger Happy

Health insurance is a complete waste of money until you need it.

Eggs For Dinner

sallyanne12 wrote: »

But what I don’t understand is: Can’t anyone go private if they just pay the money? Like for example, If you have a problem and you have private health insurance, you get referred to a specialist consultant and pay for it. If you are public, you get referred to private specialist consultant if you also pay? I don’t understand the difference...

My most recent (of many) procedures cost circa €106k. My GP referred me to a consultant, scans done, operated on and done and dusted in a couple of months. I was told there was a 2 year public waiting list to see a consultant and my man told me he wouldn't have been able to do anything at that stage if I had gone down that route.

It's not a fair system, but if it's the only game in town, you need to do what you can.

enfant terrible

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

My most recent (of many) procedures cost circa €106k. My GP referred me to a consultant, scans done, operated on and done and dusted in a couple of months. I was told there was a 2 year public waiting list to see a consultant and my man told me he wouldn't have been able to do anything at that stage if I had gone down that route.

It's not a fair system, but if it's the only game in town, you need to do what you can.

I think what Sally is asking is if without health insurance you pay the few hundred euros for the private scans and see the consultant, are you then no worse off than the person with health insurance.

Will you then be put on the same list as the person with health insurance for your operation, kinda like your playing the system.

Eggs For Dinner

enfant terrible wrote: »

I think what Sally is asking is if without health insurance you pay the few hundred euros for the private scans and see the consultant, are you then no worse off than the person with health insurance.

Will you then be put on the same list as the person with health insurance for your operation, kinda like your playing the system.

Of course you can pay privately for scans and consultants, even people with insurance have to pay for the initial consultation. However, that doesn't bump you up the list to get anything done with the findings and you can be sure the consultant you engage would want to see evidence of funds/insurance before following through with any procedures. There is no 'list' for private patients

happyoutscan

Would not go a day without it.

riclad

The difference with health insurance is you will get to see a doctor consultant quickly,not in 6-12 months
you will be sent to a private ward, you may have the option of being in a room by yourself.
Consultants in the public sector have long waiting lists, if you go to a hospital
you will be on a ward with 10-20 other patients,
maybe you will be on a trolley if you go in the winter .
there is a reason why people pay for health insurance.
its like getting a limo versus waiting at a bus stop to get on a crowded bus.
also because of covid non emergency operations are being cancelled .
private hospitals treat patients quickly and they do not put people on trolleys .
OF course if you are 20 years old and have never been sick you may think
whats they point of private health insurance.

enfant terrible

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Of course you can pay privately for scans and consultants, even people with insurance have to pay for the initial consultation. However, that doesn't bump you up the list to get anything done with the findings and you can be sure the consultant you engage would want to see evidence of funds/insurance before following through with any procedures. There is no 'list' for private patients

That's what I mean once you pay privately for the consultant will he then put you in as a public patient meaning you dont pay a penny more?

And your on the same waiting list for an operation as the person paying health insurance all his life?

ted1

JethroC wrote: »

Don't you just love the society we live in

The rich have a better chance of living and the poor have a better chance of dying

Not really the rich. Middle class or just people with priorities sorted.

Greyfox

ted1 wrote: »

Not really the rich. Middle class or just people with priorities sorted.

People can have there priorities sorted and still not have health insurance, it's something that could end up being a waste of money.

ted1

Greyfox wrote: »

People can have there priorities sorted and still not have health insurance, it's something that could end up being a waste of money.

Of course it’s a waste of money. Then you find a lump on your balls or breasts and then you start it’s not.

What kind of priority would Uiu have , and not have it ? Sky tv? Bottle of wine a week ?

Unless you're in bad health, health insurance is a total scam.

If you're in bad health, you'll be well looked after by public system.

All in all, private healthcare is a waste of money and thankfully more and more people are discovering this.

We're an outlier in Europe with our two-tier system and we routinely rank near the bottom when it comes to healthcare.

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unless you're in bad health, health insurance is a total scam.

If you're in bad health, you'll be well looked after by public system.

All in all, private healthcare is a waste of money and thankfully more and more people are discovering this.

We're an outlier in Europe with our two-tier system and we routinely rank near the bottom when it comes to healthcare.

Earlier in the year I had Dodgy shoulder ,Went to my GP,next day had a MRI, three days later I was with a consultant in Vincent’s, 3 days later and another MRi I’m with another consultant in Blackrock getting my shoulder sorted.

I’m not in bad health I ran4 marathons in the past three years and cycle 300 km a week


Yes our health system sucks so does the NHS. Hopefully Slaintecare fixes it. I won’t mind paying additional taxes if it means I don’t pay for health insurance

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

Earlier in the year I had Dodgy shoulder ,Went to my GP,next day had a MRI, three days later I was with a consultant in Vincent’s, 3 days later and another MRi I’m with another consultant in Blackrock getting my shoulder sorted.

I’m not in bad health I ran4 marathons in the past three years and cycle 300 km a week


Yes our health system sucks so does the NHS. Hopefully Slaintecare fixes it. I won’t mind paying additional taxes if it means I don’t pay for health insurance

Glad to hear you're being looked after, I wish you all the very best my man.

I suppose the point I was making is that there's far too much money being spaffed away every year on private health insurance that nobody benefits from, aside from the insurance companies bank accounts, that could at least be partially going to a good public system.

They're a wholly unnecessary middleman.

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Glad to hear you're being looked after, I wish you all the very best my man.

I suppose the point I was making is that there's far too much money being spaffed away every year on private health insurance that nobody benefits from, aside from the insurance companies bank accounts, that could at least be partially going to a good public system.

They're a wholly unnecessary middleman.

Agreed but until the middleman is removed I’ll be paying it.

Yyhhuuu

vixdname wrote: »

if you can pay for scans \ treatment out of your own pocket youll get it quicker than public of course.
Bare in mind hospital overnight charges, even in public hospitals can be many €100 of euro per night, add on diagnostics (MRI, CT) etc plus consultants fees, plus surgery, plus anaesthetist fees etc and your talking €1000s.

In-patient PUBLIC hospital charges are capped at €80 per day or €800 per calendar year ( save in very rare cases such as certain infectious disease where the fee is waived)

I assume large teaching hospitals with multi-disciplinary teams with various specialities available for consultation can deliver better healthcare than certain private hospitals with only 1 consultant available. Often times when there is an emergency or the patients condition deteoriates in a private hospital they are transferred to a public hospital. Ideally you want a private floor in a large public teaching hospital such as the Royal Free in London. You have the best of both worlds.