Are we really that similar to the Scots?

Godot. · 11-09-2020 09:45PM #1

I always hear about 'Celtic brotherhood' but in reality...

They were culturally Protestant, we were Catholic.
They were huge beneficiaries from Empire, we were a colony.
They love the Queen.
Ulster Scots never integrated properly with the native Irish and are the reason our island is partitioned.
Irish immigration to Glasgow caused huge tensions in the 19th century.
They have the largest Orange Order membership outside Northern Ireland.

*drops mic*

L1011 · 11-09-2020 09:49PM

You appear to think that lowlands scots is all there is there. Rather a lot more to the country than the Kirk and parades.

However, they will absolutely be international rivals in every single way once they're independent; they've already shown that with the fisheries stuff. Its not like best mates.

Alf Veedersane · 11-09-2020 09:51PM

Godot. wrote: »

I always hear about 'Celtic brotherhood' but in reality...

They were culturally Protestant, we were Catholic.
They were huge benefactors from Empire, we were a colony.
They love the Queen
Ulster Scots never integrated properly with the native Irish and are the reason our island is partitioned.
Irish immigration to Glasgow caused huge tensions in the 19th century.
They have the largest Orange Order membership outside Northern Ireland.

*drops mic*

Yeah but Celtic.

Do, do, do d-do, do do do do do

Del.Monte · 11-09-2020 09:58PM

L1011 wrote: »

You appear to think that lowlands scots is all there is there. Rather a lot more to the country than the Kirk and parades.

However, they will absolutely be international rivals in every single way once they're independent; they've already shown that with the fisheries stuff. Its not like best mates.

The independence ship has sailed - not much oil left, no naval bases if they become independent, serious border controls with one non EU state, and possibly two, if NI were to stay with England and Wales is this scenario. As for fisheries - there's little support for the EU in the Scottish fishing community and this won't help the SNP rabble.

JasonStatham · 11-09-2020 10:03PM

Didn't we invade Scotland to create the kingdom of Dalriada

And isn't ulster scots descended from Gaelic?

Gregor Samsa · 11-09-2020 10:16PM

JasonStatham wrote: »

And isn't ulster scots descended from Gaelic?

No, Scots (and Ulster Scots) are West Germanic languages - sister languages (or dialects, depending on who you ask) of English.

fatknacker · 11-09-2020 10:20PM

Well our languages are very similar.

We look similar too with the pasty ones.

bodhrandude · 11-09-2020 10:21PM

When it comes to footie we can be pretty similar and drinking in the pubs, in Glasgow tho you've got to know your way around, certain parts of the East End and the like.

Tuco88 · 11-09-2020 10:25PM

Culture wise yes, I think more so than with the rest of Britain mostly due to the awful weather they have too.

I can't see an Independent Scotland being any benefit to Ireland more of a negative impact possibly.

Lots of good industry history in Scotland. I think they could do well independent in the long run.

JohnnyFlash · 11-09-2020 10:34PM

The people down the south of Scotland are rather like people from Northern Ireland - bitter, dour, quick to anger, stubborn.

The people from the Highlands are much more like people from the West of Ireland - witty, modest, patient, proud of their culture and traditions.

Mad_maxx · 11-09-2020 10:42PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The people down the south of Scotland are rather like people from Northern Ireland - bitter, dour, quick to anger, stubborn.

The people from the Highlands are much more like people from the West of Ireland - witty, modest, patient, proud of their culture and traditions.

highlanders are a tiny minority of the population

11-09-2020 10:46PM

JasonStatham wrote: »

Didn't we invade Scotland to create the kingdom of Dalriada

And isn't ulster scots descended from Gaelic?

No and no.
There is no particular evidence of Irish invasion or colonisation.
The early celts of the islands of Scotland had more contact with Ireland via the sea, and their language developed as Gaelic, than across the substantial barrier that is/was the Highlands, with the other celts of the lowlands whose language developed as pictish.

Ulster Scots is a form of English that developed in the lowlands and Pictish was wiped out by a combination of Scots Gaelic speakers from the islands spreading their language over the Highlands, and English/Scots speakers spreading their language to the lowlands

Capt'n Midnight · 11-09-2020 10:47PM

The difference is who hates England more.

bigar · 11-09-2020 10:50PM

I lived in Scotland for 3 years and there are very few differences.

Largest difference is that Scots are not afraid to show they are pessimistic and self depreciative.

Irish appear to sling the balance totally in the other way but once you live here for a while (15 years and counting), you notice it is all veneer and they feel just as miserable as the Scots but do not allow their true nature coming to the surface.

dxhound2005 · 11-09-2020 10:53PM

Taking the long view, this Protestant stuff is very new fangled. Dalriada was a kingdom in the old days with territory in both what is now Scotland and Northern Ireland. So the old order has sort of been restored this last hundred years.

For Forks Sake · 11-09-2020 10:58PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iusUq4-f5U

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 11-09-2020 11:01PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The people down the south of Scotland are rather like people from Northern Ireland - bitter, dour, quick to anger, stubborn.

The people from the Highlands are much more like people from the West of Ireland - witty, modest, patient, proud of their culture and traditions.

On a slightly similar note, I wonder what percentage of Ireland is of English descent rather than Celt? Dublin is the main population center and that's where the Old English (pre-Protestant Reformation) were based (The Pale).

Is the country actually more Anglo-Saxon than Celt? :pac:

Church on Tuesday · 11-09-2020 11:07PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yeah but Celtic.

Do, do, do d-do, do do do do do

Founded by an Irishman from Sligo, any amount of Irish players down through the years and a club that is visibly proud of it's Irish roots.

Hardly surprising then that Celtic has such a huge following here.

That great shirt is not just the preserve of drugged up skangers on O'Connell street.

dxhound2005 · 11-09-2020 11:12PM

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

On a slightly similar note, I wonder what percentage of Ireland is of English descent rather than Celt? Dublin is the main population center and that's where the Old English (pre-Protestant Reformation) were based (The Pale).

Is the country actually more Anglo-Saxon than Celt? :pac:

Only about a third of the English are of Saxon (German) descent, a lot of them in the East of England. So probably not too much influence here.

L1011 · 11-09-2020 11:14PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

The independence ship has sailed - not much oil left, no naval bases if they become independent, serious border controls with one non EU state, and possibly two, if NI were to stay with England and Wales is this scenario. As for fisheries - there's little support for the EU in the Scottish fishing community and this won't help the SNP rabble.

Polling doesn't even vaguely agree with you.

Also - emotion outweighs reality a lot of the time. Just look at England/Wales dragging the UK out of the EU.

JohnnyFlash · 11-09-2020 11:15PM

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

On a slightly similar note, I wonder what percentage of Ireland is of English descent rather than Celt? Dublin is the main population center and that's where the Old English (pre-Protestant Reformation) were based (The Pale).

Is the country actually more Anglo-Saxon than Celt? :pac:

I have noticed that a lot of the surnames associated with gangland around the country have planter surnames - Parker, Hutch, Capper, Davis, Little, Molyneaux etc etc.

dxhound2005 · 11-09-2020 11:20PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I have noticed that a lot of the surnames associated with gangland around the country have planter surnames - Parker, Hutch, Capper, Davis, Little, Molyneaux etc etc.

I don't know any more to fill in the etc etc.

Church on Tuesday · 11-09-2020 11:43PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't know any more to fill in the etc etc.

Sir Etc Etc was an aul planter Roundhead back in the day sure.

jmlad2020 · 11-09-2020 11:49PM

I have always maintained that present day Donegal is somewhere crossed between Gaelic Scotland and modern Ireland. Influences in Donegal Irish, the historic cultural ties testifies to this. The Hebrides accent and language is similar to Donegal.

The people from the North of the island (pre-plantation) were intrinsically linked to Scotland more so than the rest of the country but as our native tongues are very similar we are more linked to Gaelic Scotland than we really know, not so much present day Scotland is my argument.

The Hebrides still retain this Gaelic culture to this day

bobbyy gee · 11-09-2020 11:51PM

they support rangers we support Celtic
when i went to Scotland i found them unfriendly nosey
i dd not find them anything like the irish

Badly Drunk Boy · 11-09-2020 11:54PM

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Is the country actually more Anglo-Saxon than Celt? :pac:

No! But you might be. I can smell it off ya!

Get yerself tested (DNA-wise) if you're interested.

OMM 0000 · 11-09-2020 11:56PM

I watched The Departed the other day, and one of the guys in the gang is clearly from Scotland.

Are we supposed to know he's Scottish or is it a case of "the Irish and Scottish are the same and sound the same" so we aren't supposed to notice?

Badly Drunk Boy · 11-09-2020 11:58PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Hardly surprising then that Celtic has such a huge following here.

That great shirt is not just the preserve of drugged up skangers on O'Connell street.

Didn't the change the three-leafed shamrock for the four-leafed clover on the crest, though?

Hangdogroad · 11-09-2020 11:58PM

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I watched The Departed the other day, and one of the guys in the gang is clearly from Scotland.

Are we supposed to know he's Scottish or is it a case of "the Irish and Scottish are the same and sound the same" so we aren't supposed to notice?

To the Yanks they probably sound the same.

Poor Uncle Tom · 12-09-2020 12:00AM

This ****e bores me...

Badly Drunk Boy · 12-09-2020 12:01AM

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Are we supposed to know he's Scottish or is it a case of "the Irish and Scottish are the same and sound the same" so we aren't supposed to notice?

A lot of Americans don't know the difference between a 'British' accent and and Australian one. Closer subtleties would be lost on them. The (American) actors don't even know.

Are we really that similar to the Scots?

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