Are we really that similar to the Scots?

Godot.

I always hear about 'Celtic brotherhood' but in reality...

They were culturally Protestant, we were Catholic.
They were huge beneficiaries from Empire, we were a colony.
They love the Queen.
Ulster Scots never integrated properly with the native Irish and are the reason our island is partitioned.
Irish immigration to Glasgow caused huge tensions in the 19th century.
They have the largest Orange Order membership outside Northern Ireland.

*drops mic*

L1011

You appear to think that lowlands scots is all there is there. Rather a lot more to the country than the Kirk and parades.

However, they will absolutely be international rivals in every single way once they're independent; they've already shown that with the fisheries stuff. Its not like best mates.

Alf Veedersane

Godot. wrote: »

I always hear about 'Celtic brotherhood' but in reality...

They were culturally Protestant, we were Catholic.
They were huge benefactors from Empire, we were a colony.
They love the Queen
Ulster Scots never integrated properly with the native Irish and are the reason our island is partitioned.
Irish immigration to Glasgow caused huge tensions in the 19th century.
They have the largest Orange Order membership outside Northern Ireland.

*drops mic*

Yeah but Celtic.

Do, do, do d-do, do do do do do

Del.Monte

L1011 wrote: »

You appear to think that lowlands scots is all there is there. Rather a lot more to the country than the Kirk and parades.

However, they will absolutely be international rivals in every single way once they're independent; they've already shown that with the fisheries stuff. Its not like best mates.

The independence ship has sailed - not much oil left, no naval bases if they become independent, serious border controls with one non EU state, and possibly two, if NI were to stay with England and Wales is this scenario. As for fisheries - there's little support for the EU in the Scottish fishing community and this won't help the SNP rabble.

JasonStatham

Didn't we invade Scotland to create the kingdom of Dalriada

And isn't ulster scots descended from Gaelic?

Gregor Samsa

JasonStatham wrote: »

And isn't ulster scots descended from Gaelic?

No, Scots (and Ulster Scots) are West Germanic languages - sister languages (or dialects, depending on who you ask) of English.

fatknacker

Well our languages are very similar.

We look similar too with the pasty ones.

bodhrandude

When it comes to footie we can be pretty similar and drinking in the pubs, in Glasgow tho you've got to know your way around, certain parts of the East End and the like.

Tuco88

Culture wise yes, I think more so than with the rest of Britain mostly due to the awful weather they have too.

I can't see an Independent Scotland being any benefit to Ireland more of a negative impact possibly.

Lots of good industry history in Scotland. I think they could do well independent in the long run.

JohnnyFlash

The people down the south of Scotland are rather like people from Northern Ireland - bitter, dour, quick to anger, stubborn.


The people from the Highlands are much more like people from the West of Ireland - witty, modest, patient, proud of their culture and traditions.

Mad_maxx

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The people down the south of Scotland are rather like people from Northern Ireland - bitter, dour, quick to anger, stubborn.


The people from the Highlands are much more like people from the West of Ireland - witty, modest, patient, proud of their culture and traditions.

highlanders are a tiny minority of the population

JasonStatham

JasonStatham wrote: »

Didn't we invade Scotland to create the kingdom of Dalriada

And isn't ulster scots descended from Gaelic?

No and no.
There is no particular evidence of Irish invasion or colonisation.
The early celts of the islands of Scotland had more contact with Ireland via the sea, and their language developed as Gaelic, than across the substantial barrier that is/was the Highlands, with the other celts of the lowlands whose language developed as pictish.

Ulster Scots is a form of English that developed in the lowlands and Pictish was wiped out by a combination of Scots Gaelic speakers from the islands spreading their language over the Highlands, and English/Scots speakers spreading their language to the lowlands

Capt'n Midnight

The difference is who hates England more.

bigar

I lived in Scotland for 3 years and there are very few differences.

Largest difference is that Scots are not afraid to show they are pessimistic and self depreciative.

Irish appear to sling the balance totally in the other way but once you live here for a while (15 years and counting), you notice it is all veneer and they feel just as miserable as the Scots but do not allow their true nature coming to the surface.

dxhound2005

Taking the long view, this Protestant stuff is very new fangled. Dalriada was a kingdom in the old days with territory in both what is now Scotland and Northern Ireland. So the old order has sort of been restored this last hundred years.

For Forks Sake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iusUq4-f5U

IRISHSPORTSGUY

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The people down the south of Scotland are rather like people from Northern Ireland - bitter, dour, quick to anger, stubborn.


The people from the Highlands are much more like people from the West of Ireland - witty, modest, patient, proud of their culture and traditions.

On a slightly similar note, I wonder what percentage of Ireland is of English descent rather than Celt? Dublin is the main population center and that's where the Old English (pre-Protestant Reformation) were based (The Pale).

Is the country actually more Anglo-Saxon than Celt? :pac:

Church on Tuesday

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yeah but Celtic.

Do, do, do d-do, do do do do do

Founded by an Irishman from Sligo, any amount of Irish players down through the years and a club that is visibly proud of it's Irish roots.

Hardly surprising then that Celtic has such a huge following here.

That great shirt is not just the preserve of drugged up skangers on O'Connell street.

dxhound2005

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

On a slightly similar note, I wonder what percentage of Ireland is of English descent rather than Celt? Dublin is the main population center and that's where the Old English (pre-Protestant Reformation) were based (The Pale).

Is the country actually more Anglo-Saxon than Celt? :pac:

Only about a third of the English are of Saxon (German) descent, a lot of them in the East of England. So probably not too much influence here.

L1011

Del.Monte wrote: »

The independence ship has sailed - not much oil left, no naval bases if they become independent, serious border controls with one non EU state, and possibly two, if NI were to stay with England and Wales is this scenario. As for fisheries - there's little support for the EU in the Scottish fishing community and this won't help the SNP rabble.

Polling doesn't even vaguely agree with you.

Also - emotion outweighs reality a lot of the time. Just look at England/Wales dragging the UK out of the EU.

JohnnyFlash

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

On a slightly similar note, I wonder what percentage of Ireland is of English descent rather than Celt? Dublin is the main population center and that's where the Old English (pre-Protestant Reformation) were based (The Pale).

Is the country actually more Anglo-Saxon than Celt? :pac:

I have noticed that a lot of the surnames associated with gangland around the country have planter surnames - Parker, Hutch, Capper, Davis, Little, Molyneaux etc etc.

dxhound2005

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I have noticed that a lot of the surnames associated with gangland around the country have planter surnames - Parker, Hutch, Capper, Davis, Little, Molyneaux etc etc.

I don't know any more to fill in the etc etc.

Church on Tuesday

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't know any more to fill in the etc etc.

Sir Etc Etc was an aul planter Roundhead back in the day sure.

jmlad2020

I have always maintained that present day Donegal is somewhere crossed between Gaelic Scotland and modern Ireland. Influences in Donegal Irish, the historic cultural ties testifies to this. The Hebrides accent and language is similar to Donegal.

The people from the North of the island (pre-plantation) were intrinsically linked to Scotland more so than the rest of the country but as our native tongues are very similar we are more linked to Gaelic Scotland than we really know, not so much present day Scotland is my argument.

The Hebrides still retain this Gaelic culture to this day

bobbyy gee

they support rangers we support Celtic
when i went to Scotland i found them unfriendly nosey
i dd not find them anything like the irish

Badly Drunk Boy

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Is the country actually more Anglo-Saxon than Celt? :pac:

No! But you might be. I can smell it off ya!

Get yerself tested (DNA-wise) if you're interested.

OMM 0000

I watched The Departed the other day, and one of the guys in the gang is clearly from Scotland.

Are we supposed to know he's Scottish or is it a case of "the Irish and Scottish are the same and sound the same" so we aren't supposed to notice?

Badly Drunk Boy

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Hardly surprising then that Celtic has such a huge following here.

That great shirt is not just the preserve of drugged up skangers on O'Connell street.

Didn't the change the three-leafed shamrock for the four-leafed clover on the crest, though?

Hangdogroad

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I watched The Departed the other day, and one of the guys in the gang is clearly from Scotland.

Are we supposed to know he's Scottish or is it a case of "the Irish and Scottish are the same and sound the same" so we aren't supposed to notice?

To the Yanks they probably sound the same.

Poor Uncle Tom

This ****e bores me...

Badly Drunk Boy

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Are we supposed to know he's Scottish or is it a case of "the Irish and Scottish are the same and sound the same" so we aren't supposed to notice?

A lot of Americans don't know the difference between a 'British' accent and and Australian one. Closer subtleties would be lost on them. The (American) actors don't even know.

Hamsterchops

We are very different to the Scots, firstly the Scots live on haggis and deep fried Mars Bars and tradition says that we exist on potatoes. They wear Kilts to the supermarket we wear pyjamas, we drink Guinness while the Scots drink Iron Bru. Most Scots also have paler skin, red hair and freckles. They are descended from Vikings and we're descended from the Celts!

Nuff said.

OMM 0000

Hangdogroad wrote: »

To the Yanks they probably sound the same.

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

A lot of Americans don't know the difference between a 'British' accent and and Australian one. Closer subtleties would be lost on them. The (American) actors don't even know.

Holy crap I just looked up the "Scottish" actor and it's a guy from London (Ray Winston) putting on a Scottish accent in what I presume is supposed to be an Irish character. WTF

Onshuh

Aye. She's turned the wains against us!!

jmlad2020

Hamsterchops wrote: »

We are very different to the Scots, firstly the Scots live on haggis and deep fried Mars Bars and tradition says that we exist on potatoes. They wear Kilts to the supermarket we wear pyjamas, we drink Guinness while the Scots drink Iron Bru. Most Scots also have paler skin, red hair and freckles. They are descended from Vikings and we're descended from the Celts!

Nuff said.

You definitely got an A1 in honours history didn't you

tdf7187

bigar wrote: »

I lived in Scotland for 3 years and there are very few differences.

Largest difference is that Scots are not afraid to show they are pessimistic and self depreciative.

Irish appear to sling the balance totally in the other way but once you live here for a while (15 years and counting), you notice it is all veneer and they feel just as miserable as the Scots but do not allow their true nature coming to the surface.

I'm a wannabe Scotsman and have no problem admitting it. Modern Scots are far less up themselves than the Irish.

Church on Tuesday

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Didn't the change the three-leafed shamrock for the four-leafed clover on the crest, though?

To honor a first quadruple AFAIK, the Celtic cross, however, has remained a staple in some form on most shirts throughout the years.

Charles Babbage

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't know any more to fill in the etc etc.

Adams?

bobbyy gee

Picts and gaels
https://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-folklore/picts-gaels-scots-exploring-mysterious-mythical-021949

whisky_galore

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

This ****e bores me...

A refreshing change from fcukin Brits-this and bloody English-that.

Dempo1

I lived and worked in Scotland and Wales & I've have to say we are far more like the people from Wales, infact I don't think we have much in common with the Scots at all, albeit I had excellent experience of both, as an aside Edinburgh was actually the Place I have to say had the most Rudest people I ever met or encountered worldwide, Glasgow the complete opposite. But if you ever want to meet the funniest, craziest and Genuine people, Swansea and more specifically the Mumbles, just outside is the place to go and actually not unlike the Dingle Penisula in terms of scenery.

Granadino

Dempo1 wrote: »

I lived and worked in Scotland and Wales & I've have to say we are far more like the people from Wales, infact I don't think we have much in common with the Scots at all, albeit I had excellent experience of both, as an aside Edinburgh was actually the Place I have to say had the most Rudest people I ever met or encountered worldwide, Glasgow the complete opposite. But if you ever want to meet the funniest, craziest and Genuine people, Swansea and more specifically the Mumbles, just outside is the place to go and actually not unlike the Dingle Penisula in terms of scenery.

I found people in Edinburgh to be polite and helpful the many times I’ve been there

cj maxx

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

No, Scots (and Ulster Scots) are West Germanic languages - sister languages (or dialects, depending on who you ask) of English.

Scots Gallic and gaelige are spelt slightly differently . 2 dialects of what is basically the same language .
Spread to Scotland from Ireland I believe. Ulster Scots as a language just seems to be English spelt phonetically and not a true language at all

Onshuh

This is the best thing to come out of Scotland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKfAjlW6E30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkuWrmxN7hg

MaccaTacca

Godot. wrote: »

I always hear about 'Celtic brotherhood' but in reality...

They were culturally Protestant, we were Catholic.
They were huge beneficiaries from Empire, we were a colony.
They love the Queen.
Ulster Scots never integrated properly with the native Irish and are the reason our island is partitioned.
Irish immigration to Glasgow caused huge tensions in the 19th century.
They have the largest Orange Order membership outside Northern Ireland.

*drops mic*

One of the biggest myths ever is that the Scots like us and our 'Celtic' brothers.

They are the root cause of many of Northern Ireland's problems and have been biggoted to Irish immigrants for hundreds of years.

Dont even get me started on the Welsh.

MaccaTacca

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The difference is who hates England more.

Certianly not the statelet that voted to remain part of it...

amadangomor

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I have noticed that a lot of the surnames associated with gangland around the country have planter surnames - Parker, Hutch, Capper, Davis, Little, Molyneaux etc etc.

Probably some of that but was reading about how in Leinster and in particular in the Pale Irish people anglicised their names in a more extreme way.

Probably made sense for economic reasons. Very few Mc names left in Leinster when there would have been plenty before this.

One example was Matthews where it sounds very English but was originally Mac Mathúna or another similar Gaelic name.

circadian

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The people down the south of Scotland are rather like people from Northern Ireland - bitter, dour, quick to anger, stubborn.


The people from the Highlands are much more like people from the West of Ireland - witty, modest, patient, proud of their culture and traditions.

Didn't take long to roll out the old tropes. Well done you.

JohnnyFlash

circadian wrote: »

Didn't take long to roll out the old tropes. Well done you.

What tropes? Before you ask it has nothing to do with either group of ‘them’uns’ up North. Anyone who has any dealings with the Nordie knows it doesn’t matter what ‘side’ they are on. The vast majority of people up there are belligerent, sour, mean-spirited, ‘agricultural’, and pretty stupid as well.

Characteristics not uncommon in the southern Scot either to be honest. I mean Celtic vs Rangers shows how backward these people are. Such venom, hatred, and stupidity shown as their fans watch absolutely atrocious hoof ball while singing songs about 500 years ago.

tigerboon

MaccaTacca wrote: »

One of the biggest myths ever is that the Scots like us and our 'Celtic' brothers.

The real myth is that they're our "celtic brothers" when in reality a lot of Irish aren't celtic in origin at all. People talk about planter names, anglo names etc. A lot of them are of english origin. They are people who settled here with the various invasions throughout the centuries. The older anglo norman families tend to be catholic due to the fact that the reformation hadn't yet happened when they arrived. Later you had the planter families and a lot of working class protestant families some of who would be Cromwell's soldiers. Anglo type names would be more common in the east and south east because that's where they would have invaded from. A lot of us have absolutly nothing in common with the scots

Kylta

Hamsterchops wrote: »

We are very different to the Scots, firstly the Scots live on haggis and deep fried Mars Bars and tradition says that we exist on potatoes. They wear Kilts to the supermarket we wear pyjamas, we drink Guinness while the Scots drink Iron Bru. Most Scots also have paler skin, red hair and freckles. They are descended from Vikings and we're descended from the Celts!

Nuff said.

Their were tribes in scotland and ireland before the the celts and the vikings. Who said were celts anyway? We think we celts, but were is the proof? Next ill here Cu Chulainn was an irish hero?