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2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Danzy wrote: »
    Normalization of relationship between Israel and an Arab neighbour is a big deal.

    I actually agree, it is a big deal. Just because he's generally a terrible human being a worse president, it doesn't mean the few good things he's done should be dismissed.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Danzy wrote: »
    Normalization of relationship between Israel and an Arab neighbour is a big deal.


    There's a world of difference between Bahrain and Egypt/Jordan/Syria. Bahrain is also as much of a neighbour to Israel as Croatia. Look at a map.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Brian? wrote: »
    I actually agree, it is a big deal. Just because he's generally a terrible human being a worse president, it doesn't mean the few good things he's done should be dismissed.

    The good outways the bad. His bad is largely just talk.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    Any peace deals that contribute to the reduction of conflicts in the Middle East is a positive thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,615 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Any peace deals that contribute to the reduction of conflicts in the Middle East is a positive thing.

    Were these countries at war?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Brian? wrote: »
    I actually agree, it is a big deal. Just because he's generally a terrible human being a worse president, it doesn't mean the few good things he's done should be dismissed.

    It's a tiny country heavily under the influence of the USA. In terms of peace in the Middle East this treaty is meaningless. It's a molehill dressed up as a mountain and does nothing other than fool some of the American electorate while diverting attention away from Trump's support of Israel as they ramp up their mistreatment of Palestinians.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    There's a world of difference between Bahrain and Egypt/Jordan/Syria. Bahrain is also as much of a neighbour to Israel as Croatia. Look at a map.

    It's not the geographical context. It's that it is an Arabic state.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Have you guys even looked at a bloody map yet?

    Go look at it and explain to me how these countries could go to war? I know that the yanks are poor at geography but I would expect Irish people to know that Israel doesn't border every arab country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭ollkiller


    Ya we were really worried that Bahrain was going to go to war with Israel. Kept me up at night to be honest. Christ above. If there was a war Israel would destroy it in 2 seconds. Broker a peace deal between Israel and Palestine. That's meaningful. This deal is total horses**t.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Looks like AG Barr was politically pressuring the Durham Probe to generate a report ahead of the election. A top prosecutor resigned as a result. She’s highly decorated and non partisan.

    [url]


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Have you guys even looked at a bloody map yet?

    Go look at it and explain to me how these countries could go to war? I know that the yanks are poor at geography but I would expect Irish people to know that Israel doesn't border every arab country.

    You might not be aware but countries who do not bounds each other have gone to war.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Danzy wrote: »
    You might not be aware but countries who do not bounds each other have gone to war.

    Are we pretending for a moment there have been any hostilities between Israel and Bahrain?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Overheal wrote: »
    Are we pretending for a moment there have been any hostilities between Israel and Bahrain?

    ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,019 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Overheal wrote: »
    Looks like AG Barr was politically pressuring the Durham Probe to generate a report ahead of the election. A top prosecutor resigned as a result. She’s highly decorated and non partisan.

    [url]

    Well Barr has got form in winding up investigations early


  • Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ollkiller wrote: »
    Ya we were really worried that Bahrain was going to go to war with Israel. Kept me up at night to be honest. Christ above. If there was a war Israel would destroy it in 2 seconds. Broker a peace deal between Israel and Palestine. That's meaningful. This deal is total horses**t.

    Or you could decide to move your embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and stoke up more distrust and hostility.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Danzy wrote: »
    ?


    Look at the feckin' map and tell me how a country the size of Dublin goes to war across 1600 km through three countries to invade Israel.


    I could post a picture but you wouldn't even see Bahrain at that scale.


    These peace deals seem more like Trump reelection bid deals than meaningful deals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I also see #TedCruzHasNoBalls is trending. Noice, America.

    https://twitter.com/Trevornoah/status/1304485703905169411?s=20


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Also, this bomb just dropped

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809?fbclid=IwAR1LaXwmZTk8yQxxlkgZUhNY_-z1E0hx2O28NDGLwrHmKKMFdNp-qdheYcE

    Smoking gun of the open secret that the CDC has been getting politically manipulated to downplay Covid-19.
    The health department’s politically appointed communications aides have demanded the right to review and seek changes to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s weekly scientific reports charting the progress of the coronavirus pandemic, in what officials characterized as an attempt to intimidate the reports’ authors and water down their communications to health professionals.

    In some cases, emails from communications aides to CDC Director Robert Redfield and other senior officials openly complained that the agency’s reports would undermine President Donald Trump's optimistic messages about the outbreak, according to emails reviewed by POLITICO and three people familiar with the situation.

    CDC officials have fought back against the most sweeping changes, but have increasingly agreed to allow the political officials to review the reports and, in a few cases, compromised on the wording, according to three people familiar with the exchanges. The communications aides’ efforts to change the language in the CDC’s reports have been constant across the summer and continued as recently as Friday afternoon.

    The CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports are authored by career scientists and serve as the main vehicle for the agency to inform doctors, researchers and the general public about how Covid-19 is spreading and who is at risk. Such reports have historically been published with little fanfare and no political interference, said several longtime health department officials, and have been viewed as a cornerstone of the nation's public health work for decades.

    But since Michael Caputo, a former Trump campaign official with no medical or scientific background, was installed in April as the health department's new spokesperson, there have been substantial efforts to align the reports with Trump's statements, including the president's claims that fears about the outbreak are overstated, or stop the reports altogether.

    Caputo and his team have attempted to add caveats to the CDC's findings, including an effort to retroactively change agency reports that they said wrongly inflated the risks of Covid-19 and should have made clear that Americans sickened by the virus may have been infected because of their own behavior, according to the individuals familiar with the situation and emails reviewed by POLITICO.

    Caputo's team also has tried to halt the release of some CDC reports, including delaying a report that addressed how doctors were prescribing hydroxychloroquine, the malaria drug favored by Trump as a coronavirus treatment despite scant evidence. The report, which was held for about a month after Caputo’s team raised questions about its authors’ political leanings, was finally published last week. It said that "the potential benefits of these drugs do not outweigh their risks."

    In one clash, an aide to Caputo berated CDC scientists for attempting to use the reports to "hurt the President" in an Aug. 8 email sent to CDC Director Robert Redfield and other officials that was widely circulated inside the department and obtained by POLITICO.

    "CDC to me appears to be writing hit pieces on the administration," appointee Paul Alexander wrote, calling on Redfield to modify two already published reports that Alexander claimed wrongly inflated the risks of coronavirus to children and undermined Trump's push to reopen schools. "CDC tried to report as if once kids get together, there will be spread and this will impact school re-opening . . . Very misleading by CDC and shame on them. Their aim is clear."

    Alexander also called on Redfield to halt all future MMWR reports until the agency modified its years-old publication process so he could personally review the entire report prior to publication, rather than a brief synopsis. Alexander, an assistant professor of health research at Toronto's McMaster University whom Caputo recruited this spring to be his scientific adviser, added that CDC needed to allow him to make line edits — and demanded an "immediate stop" to the reports in the meantime.

    "The reports must be read by someone outside of CDC like myself, and we cannot allow the reporting to go on as it has been, for it is outrageous. Its lunacy," Alexander told Redfield and other officials. "Nothing to go out unless I read and agree with the findings how they CDC, wrote it and I tweak it to ensure it is fair and balanced and 'complete.'"

    [...]

    Kates, the Kaiser Family Foundation's global health expert, defended the CDC's process as rigorous and said that there was no reason for politically appointed officials to review the work of scientists. “MMWRs are famously known for being very clear about their limitations as well as being clear for what they've found," she said.

    Kates also said that the CDC reports have played an essential role in combating epidemics for decades, pointing to an MMWR posted in 1981 — the first published report on what became the HIV epidemic.

    “Physicians recognized there was some kind of pattern and disseminated it around the country and the world,” Kates said. “We can now see how important it was to have that publication, in that moment.”


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Danzy wrote: »
    The good outways the bad. His bad is largely just talk.

    The minimal amout of good he's done does not outweigh the massive steaming pile of rubbish his administration has been.

    Gutting the EPA, opening up national parks for oil exploration, taking funding away from research and investment into renewable energy, withdrawing from the Paris climate agreement, defunding the WHO mid pandemic, moving the US embassy to Jerusalem, giving a massive tax cut to the rich that'll be paid for by the next president in new taxes etc....

    These aren't just talk. But on top of them , the talk is dangerous.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    It's a tiny country heavily under the influence of the USA. In terms of peace in the Middle East this treaty is meaningless. It's a molehill dressed up as a mountain and does nothing other than fool some of the American electorate while diverting attention away from Trump's support of Israel as they ramp up their mistreatment of Palestinians.

    I agree it's being exaggerated, but it's still a positive.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭westdublin


    Brian? wrote: »
    I agree it's being exaggerated, but it's still a positive.

    Agreed that anything that can normalise relations between countries in the Middle East is a good thing.

    But this is not a peace deal its a glorified trade deal between two countries who have been in contact for years.
    And lets not forget the absolute **** show he caused with the whole US Jerusalem embassy stunt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,435 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Trump reflects American ignorance of Middle Eastern politics and geography. He is America.

    A lot of Americans have more in common with Trump than they'd like to admit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Brian? wrote: »
    I agree it's being exaggerated, but it's still a positive.

    How is it a positive? An American lapdog sucks up to Israel. Apart from deceptive optics for Trump and Israel, cui bono? Certainly not the Palestinians who have described it as a "stab in the back" and have withdrawn their ambassador.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    The Trump Nobel prize nomination got the TDS overflowing at Atlantic.
    End the Nobel Peace Prize
    The Trump nomination shows that peace had its chance, and blew it.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/end-nobel-peace-prize/616300/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    biko wrote: »
    The Trump Nobel prize nomination got the TDS overflowing at Atlantic.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/end-nobel-peace-prize/616300/

    In what way was the "TDS" overflowing? Please do explain your point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    tenor.gif


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,906 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    biko wrote: »
    tenor.gif

    So it was just in your mind :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    biko wrote: »
    tenor.gif

    Yes. Why break the habit of a lifetime.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    biko wrote: »
    The Trump Nobel prize nomination got the TDS overflowing at Atlantic.

    This one?https://twitter.com/PeaceLovinRobot/status/1304434358841999360


This discussion has been closed.
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