FF/FG/Green Next Government

Ha Long Bay · 10-09-2020 11:05PM

Bowie wrote: »

Do you think the HSE are a rogue organisation outside of the law operating like the Molly Maguires?

Do you have a second account called smurgen who I asked to just clarify a fairly straight forward question or just decide to reply with some random question about the HSE comparing them to The Molly Maguires?

To answer your question I dont think the HSE is an Irish 19th-century secret society active in Ireland, Liverpool and parts of the Eastern United States.

James Brown · 10-09-2020 11:39PM

john4321 wrote: »

Do you have a second account called smurgen who I asked to just clarify a fairly straight forward question or just decide to reply with some random question about the HSE comparing them to The Molly Maguires?

To answer your question I dont think the HSE is an Irish 19th-century secret society active in Ireland, Liverpool and parts of the Eastern United States.

You might be right.

Ha Long Bay · 10-09-2020 11:44PM

Bowie wrote: »

You might be right.

About which part?

"Do you have a second account called smurgen?"

Or

"To answer your question I dont think the HSE is an Irish 19th-century secret society active in Ireland..."

James Brown · 10-09-2020 11:46PM

john4321 wrote: »

About which part?

"Do you have a second account called smurgen?"

Or

"To answer your question I dont think the HSE is an Irish 19th-century secret society active in Ireland"

Its likely the HSE are affiliated with the government, likely some kind of health type government agency or other with a minister of some sort at the helm. I'd imagine.

Ha Long Bay · 11-09-2020 12:02AM

Bowie wrote: »

Its likely the HSE are affiliated with the government, likely some kind of health type government agency or other with a minister of some sort at the helm. I'd imagine.

Can I ask why you think that? You have made a few accusations there without anything to back it up. You use the term likely and I'd imagine in the post.

My original question to the other poster was:

"Sorry just to confirm you think FG ordered the HSE to cancel the planned testing in the factories? It's unclear from the reply."

Do you think they did?

James Brown · 11-09-2020 12:30AM

john4321 wrote: »

Can I ask why you think that? You have made a few accusations there without anything to back it up. You use the term likely and I'd imagine in the post.

My original question to the other poster was:

"Sorry just to confirm you think FG ordered the HSE to cancel the planned testing in the factories? It's unclear from the reply."

Do you think they did?

What accusations? That the HSE are a government affiliate, that there's a health department with a minister at the helm? Do you need me to back that up for you?

I think the government led HSE did, yes.
What's your understanding?

Ha Long Bay · 11-09-2020 12:50AM

Bowie wrote: »

What accusations? That the HSE are a government affiliate, that there's a health department with a minister at the helm? Do you need me to back that up for you?

I think the government led HSE did, yes.
What's your understanding?

This was your reply.

Bowie wrote: »

Its likely the HSE are affiliated with the government, likely some kind of health type government agency or other with a minister of some sort at the helm. I'd imagine.

Reading this they look like opinions not facts.

Back to the original question which I asked smugen and you are more than welcome to answer.

"Sorry just to confirm you think FG ordered the HSE to cancel the planned testing in the factories? It's unclear from the reply."

James Brown · 11-09-2020 12:56AM

john4321 wrote: »

This was your reply.

Reading this they look like opinions not facts.

True. You understood the content and called them accusations yet wanted back up. Why?

john4321 wrote: »

Back to the original question which I asked smugen and you are more than welcome to answer.

"Sorry just to confirm you think FG ordered the HSE to cancel the planned testing in the factories? It's unclear from the reply."

I think the government, formed by FF/FG/Greens, direct the HSE.
So the answer would be, yes as part of the government.

Back to my question, what's your understanding? How do you think the HSE operate, outside of government?

Ha Long Bay · 11-09-2020 01:50AM

Bowie wrote: »

True. You understood the content and called them accusations yet wanted back up. Why?

I don't recall asking for anything to be backed up just questioned your post.

"Its likely the HSE are affiliated with the government, likely some kind of health type government agency or other with a minister of some sort at the helm. I'd imagine"

Feel free to back them up if you like though or I can take them as false as you used likely a few times without any facts.

Bowie wrote: »

I think the government, formed by FF/FG/Greens, direct the HSE.
So the answer would be, yes as part of the government.

The OP (smugen) claimed FG directed the HSE to stop scheduled testing of meat processing plants. Are you saying it was not FG but the whole government that directed them to do so?

Bowie wrote: »

Back to my question, what's your understanding? How do you think the HSE operate, outside of government?

Yes thats how they operate.

James Brown · 11-09-2020 02:18AM

john4321 wrote: »

I don't recall asking for anything to be backed up just questioned your post.

Just to recap..

You have made a few accusations there without anything to back it up.

Again, you understood the content regarded the HSE, being attached to government, with a health department led by a minister, yet called them accusations? Why?

"john4321 wrote: »

Feel free to back them up if you like though or I can take them as false as you used likely a few times without any facts.

Again, you want the HSE being a government affiliate, associated to the Health department, led by a minister, backed up? Do you not believe such a set up exists? What facts are missing?

"john4321 wrote: »

The OP (smugen) claimed FG directed the HSE to stop scheduled testing of meat processing plants. Are you saying it was not FG but the whole government that directed them to do so?

It was done with the blessing of a government that includes FG. I couldn't tell you which ministers were or were not involved.

john4321 wrote: »

Yes thats how they operate.

I disagree. I would expect that any decisions outside of the day to day admin would be approved or directed by government. Especially regarding the commencement or cessation of blanket testing during a pandemic.

blanch152 · 11-09-2020 07:50AM

Bowie wrote: »

True. You understood the content and called them accusations yet wanted back up. Why?

I think the government, formed by FF/FG/Greens, direct the HSE.
So the answer would be, yes as part of the government.

Back to my question, what's your understanding? How do you think the HSE operate, outside of government?

At best, that is an incredibly naive understanding of the workings of government.

The HSE are statutorily independent from government, as are all similar State bodies. They have CEOs that are accountable direct to the C&AG, and ultimately, the PAC. I find it very difficult to believe that someone who posts so regularly on these topics has such a limited understanding of how things work.

smurgen · 11-09-2020 08:25AM

blanch152 wrote: »

At best, that is an incredibly naive understanding of the workings of government.

The HSE are statutorily independent from government, as are all similar State bodies. They have CEOs that are accountable direct to the C&AG, and ultimately, the PAC. I find it very difficult to believe that someone who posts so regularly on these topics has such a limited understanding of how things work.

HSE are independent on paper just like Judges are independent on paper. In reality they exist in the political sphere like everyone else. Funding is from government and they know what side their bread is buttered on.

smurgen · 11-09-2020 08:34AM

john4321 wrote: »

Sorry just to confirm you think FG ordered the HSE to cancel the planned testing in the factories? It's unclear from the reply.

Government.FG are too close to the meat industry and have been instrumental in light touch regulations for years. They adopt an approach of see no evil hear no evil. How can the pre warning of HSE inspectors to meat processing plants be explained?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/health-authority-gave-meat-plants-advance-notice-of-coronavirus-inspections-1.4301729

Ha Long Bay · 11-09-2020 09:23AM

smurgen wrote: »

Government.FG are too close to the meat industry and have been instrumental in light touch regulations for years. They adopt an approach of see no evil hear no evil. How can the pre warning of HSE inspectors to meat processing plants be explained?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/health-authority-gave-meat-plants-advance-notice-of-coronavirus-inspections-1.4301729

You seem to be avoiding the question and throwing in a conspiracy for good measure.

Are you claiming the FG instructed the HSE to cancel the planned testing and if so what do you think would be the benefits of doing this?

On your question "How can the pre warning of HSE inspectors to meat processing plants be explained?"

The HSE don't inspect meat processing plants.

blanch152 · 11-09-2020 11:07AM

john4321 wrote: »

You seem to be avoiding the question and throwing in a conspiracy for good measure.

Are you claiming the FG instructed the HSE to cancel the planned testing and if so what do you think would be the benefits of doing this?

On your question "How can the pre warning of HSE inspectors to meat processing plants be explained?"

The HSE don't inspect meat processing plants.

The pre-warnings were in respect of HSA inspections, but the poster is confusing them with the HSE.

It is easy to foment conspiracy theories if the facts are not kept to the forefront.

James Brown · 11-09-2020 11:56AM

blanch152 wrote: »

At best, that is an incredibly naive understanding of the workings of government.

The HSE are statutorily independent from government, as are all similar State bodies. They have CEOs that are accountable direct to the C&AG, and ultimately, the PAC. I find it very difficult to believe that someone who posts so regularly on these topics has such a limited understanding of how things work.

I find it very easy to believe you left out this part to suit your trying to pass petty point scoring off as legitimate curiosity.

I disagree. I would expect that any decisions outside of the day to day admin would be approved or directed by government. Especially regarding the commencement or cessation of blanket testing during a pandemic.

You are stating that the HSE operate completely independently from the department and minster of health, yes or no?

dundalkfc10 · 11-09-2020 12:22PM

If every member of Govt turned out to be murderers, you would come on here and still the same lads would be defending them at every turn. Its amazing really.

They must have some madness going on upstairs, no matter what cervical scandal, what the state done to Maurice McCabe, the testing and nursing home scandals of recently, its never the Govts fault.

Now the HSE and Govt are not really the same, according to some

Muahahaha · 11-09-2020 12:24PM

Those meat plants arent even paying PRSI for their employees who get paid through Poland with the tax benefit ending up in the coffers of the Warsaw governement despite the labour taking place on Irish soil. It really goes to show you the favours FFG do for the meat barons with not a word said about it. What other taxpayers here get away without paying PRSI?

James Brown · 11-09-2020 01:00PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Those meat plants arent even paying PRSI for their employees who get paid through Poland with the tax benefit ending up in the coffers of the Warsaw governement despite the labour taking place on Irish soil. It really goes to show you the favours FFG do for the meat barons with not a word said about it. What other taxpayers here get away without paying PRSI?

We'd a housing and LA minister not responsible for housing and LA's during a housing crisis, so stands to reason we'd have a hands off health department and minister during a health crisis :rolleyes:

blanch152 · 11-09-2020 01:42PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Those meat plants arent even paying PRSI for their employees who get paid through Poland with the tax benefit ending up in the coffers of the Warsaw governement despite the labour taking place on Irish soil. It really goes to show you the favours FFG do for the meat barons with not a word said about it. What other taxpayers here get away without paying PRSI?

Another unsubstantiated conspiracy theory?

Or maybe you could provide a link to back this up?

Yurt2 · 11-09-2020 01:52PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Another unsubstantiated conspiracy theory?

Or maybe you could provide a link to back this up?

This was widely reported in the press and was the subject of an Oireachtas committee meeting so you're not getting away with feigning ignorance that you didn't read it or hear it.

The scale of the practice in the meat industry is unclear, but we know it is going on.

blanch152 · 11-09-2020 01:59PM

Yurt! wrote: »

This was widely reported in the press and was the subject of an Oireachtas committee meeting so you're not getting away with feigning ignorance that you didn't read it or hear it.

The scale of the practice in the meat industry is unclear, but we know it is going on.

Surprise, surprise, I did miss it, I don't follow every media story.

dundalkfc10 · 11-09-2020 02:07PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Surprise, surprise, I did miss it, I don't follow every media story.

Surprise Suprise you are saying you never seen it. Arsene Wenger you remind me of

McMurphy · 11-09-2020 02:11PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Surprise, surprise, I did miss it, I don't follow every media story.

So now you are aware of it, what's your opinion chief?

smurgen · 11-09-2020 02:19PM

Yurt! wrote: »

This was widely reported in the press and was the subject of an Oireachtas committee meeting so you're not getting away with feigning ignorance that you didn't read it or hear it.

The scale of the practice in the meat industry is unclear, but we know it is going on.

See no evil hear no evil.

https://www.thejournal.ie/meat-plants-committee-5174200-Aug2020/#comments

Truthvader · 11-09-2020 03:33PM

Someone in government needs to investigate meat plants and the conditions of workers. Full Stop

And then take some actual action

Hawthorn Tree · 11-09-2020 04:06PM

McMurphy wrote: »

So now you are aware of it, what's your opinion chief?

It's usually around now Blanch goes missing.

Interesting comments on that Journal link. Politicians certainly protect the meat plant owners. Were any of them at the Clifden Elite party?

smurgen · 11-09-2020 05:45PM

Another interesting link. Lots of buck passing in this one too.Hiqa citing public health advice then reporting to department of health then to an expert panel etc etc. Seems like the lines are being blurred to cover the decision making process.

"Patient safety watchdog, Hiqa stopped doing nursing home inspections in March on the same day the first confirmed case of Covid-19 was confirmed in one of these facilities, it was claimed yesterday.

It was among a series of criticisms levelled at Hiqa when its officials appeared before the Oireachtas Special Committee on Covid-19 Response yesterday.

People Before Profit TD Bríd Smith TD asked why Hiqa halted its inspections on March 13, the same day as the first confirmed case of Covid-19 in a nursing home.

She said the rise in nursing home deaths in the following months was "very graphic and it spiked out of control".

"Why did you take such a rapid decision on the first day you heard of a death?"
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/watchdog-stopped-inspecting-nursing-homes-when-covid-hit-39522032.html

Pintman Paddy Losty · 12-09-2020 10:35AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/martin-hits-back-after-criticism-that-varadkar-running-rings-around-him-1016635.html

Once again the Pintman calls it right. I said it from Day 1 that Varadkar would be playing Martin like a fiddle. If you want astute and accurate political insights, look to the Pintman, and look no further.

FF walked in to that trap like ****e to a fly. Excellent realpolitik and gamesmanship from the professionals, Fine Gael.

Next up a catastrophe of a left leaning coalition followed by 2 more successful terms for Fine Gael. You can take that to the bank.

McMurphy · 12-09-2020 11:09AM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/martin-hits-back-after-criticism-that-varadkar-running-rings-around-him-1016635.html

Once again the Pintman calls it right. I said it from Day 1 that Varadkar would be playing Martin like a fiddle. If you want astute and accurate political insights, look to the Pintman, and look no further.

FF walked in to that trap like ****e to a fly. Excellent realpolitik and gamesmanship from the professionals, Fine Gael.

Next up a catastrophe of a left leaning coalition followed by 2 more successful terms for Fine Gael. You can take that to the bank.

"Once again you called it right"?

Do we need to go through your posts as to your predictions on how fine gael would do in the last election?

And as for Maria Bailey prediction, nothing to see there blahdy blahdy blah - I know it's a parody piss take account paddy - but freshen up the act please - yawn.

FF/FG/Green Next Government

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