Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

bronkobilly · 09-09-2020 10:55AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People really are conned into thinking there's such thing as cheap in Ireland. Even the UK is so much cheaper. I remember when living in London I could just drop into a corner shop (at any time of the day or night) and buy a can of Zywiec or Tyskie for 1 pound, or cheaper stuff for 80p. This is almost half the price of what you pay here.
It's not just off licences. In most restaurants here you're lucky to get the cheapest bottle of wine for less than 25 euros, you could nearly always get a 9.99 bottle in London.
We are already ripped off in this kip but we seem to have a large loud cohort of Holy Joe Nanny State **** who think they know what's best for us, and the media give them plenty of time on the airwaves.
No person on the street is in favour of MUP, but it's going to happen anyway - that sounds like a dictatorship to me.

drink is cheaper in the uk bought some guiness over there way cheaper and its made here that s a laugh

punisher5112 · 09-09-2020 10:56AM

bronkobilly wrote: »

drink is cheaper in the uk bought some guiness over there way cheaper and its made here that s a laugh

So is Bailey's and basically anything, there is so much tax and vat added here....

ohnonotgmail · 09-09-2020 10:57AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People really are conned into thinking there's such thing as cheap in Ireland. Even the UK is so much cheaper. I remember when living in London I could just drop into a corner shop (at any time of the day or night) and buy a can of Zywiec or Tyskie for 1 pound, or cheaper stuff for 80p. This is almost half the price of what you pay here.
It's not just off licences. In most restaurants here you're lucky to get the cheapest bottle of wine for less than 25 euros, you could nearly always get a 9.99 bottle in London.
We are already ripped off in this kip but we seem to have a large loud cohort of Holy Joe Nanny State **** who think they know what's best for us, and the media give them plenty of time on the airwaves.
No person on the street is in favour of MUP, but it's going to happen anyway - that sounds like a dictatorship to me.

And london is expensive compared to the rest of England.

Thelonious Monk · 09-09-2020 11:13AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

And london is expensive compared to the rest of England.

I always found drinking and eating out a good bit cheaper than Dublin, as long as you're not in fancy places in trendy or touristy areas. Eating out here can be so expensive, usually because of the booze.

09-09-2020 11:53AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People really are conned into thinking there's such thing as cheap in Ireland. Even the UK is so much cheaper. I remember when living in London I could just drop into a corner shop (at any time of the day or night) and buy a can of Zywiec or Tyskie for 1 pound, or cheaper stuff for 80p. This is almost half the price of what you pay here.
It's not just off licences. In most restaurants here you're lucky to get the cheapest bottle of wine for less than 25 euros, you could nearly always get a 9.99 bottle in London.
We are already ripped off in this kip but we seem to have a large loud cohort of Holy Joe Nanny State **** who think they know what's best for us, and the media give them plenty of time on the airwaves.
No person on the street is in favour of MUP, but it's going to happen anyway - that sounds like a dictatorship to me.

What I have always loved most about this thread is the hyperbole.

Thelonious Monk · 09-09-2020 12:14PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]
What I have always loved most about this thread is the hyperbole.

Pushing something through that no one wants, apart from a few outliers like yourself, is not democratic

Leroy42 · 09-09-2020 12:19PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Pushing something through that no one wants, apart from a few outliers like yourself, is not democratic

When you say no one wants, on what basis are you saying that?

It certainly wasn't a major, or even minor, talking point in the last election.

expectationlost · 09-09-2020 12:21PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Last Saturday's Irish TImes had a front page ad saying "alcohol is too cheap". Whatever group is behind it is too cowardly to give their name, but no prizes for guessing :rolleyes:

it seems to be a charity set up by a Cork guy who made money selling cars https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30971955.html https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/businessman-building-bridge-to-a-more-equal-ireland-1.3734289

expectationlost · 09-09-2020 12:24PM

this still hasn't happened gov blaming NI for not implementing it at same time

Shelflife · 09-09-2020 12:27PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

When you say no one wants, on what basis are you saying that?

It certainly wasn't a major, or even minor, talking point in the last election.

Something doesnt have to be an election issue to be unwanted. Anyone who buys alcohol obviously doesnt want it and even those who dont buy it cant see the logic in it.

It will affect those on lower incomes dis proportionally more than those on higher incomes and it wont achieve what it proposes to achieve ie: to reduce the amount of alcohol sold and stop problem drinking.

On top of that it creates another cost to the retailer, which again will affect the smaller lower income shops than the big supermarkets.

So all it does it piss everyone off while achieving nothing.

ohnonotgmail · 09-09-2020 12:29PM

Shelflife wrote: »

Something doesnt have to be an election issue to be unwanted. Anyone who buys alcohol obviously doesnt want it and even those who dont buy it cant see the logic in it.

It will affect those on lower incomes dis proportionally more than those on higher incomes and it wont achieve what it proposes to achieve ie: to reduce the amount of alcohol sold and stop problem drinking.

On top of that it creates another cost to the retailer, which again will affect the smaller lower income shops than the big supermarkets.

So all it does it piss everyone off while achieving nothing.

well to be fair it does do something. It makes the publican lobby happy.

Thelonious Monk · 09-09-2020 12:31PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

When you say no one wants, on what basis are you saying that?

It certainly wasn't a major, or even minor, talking point in the last election.

I've seen a few polls on the issue where 85% or so were against this. I don't know anyone who would agree with these price increases.

Thelonious Monk · 09-09-2020 12:32PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well to be fair it does do something. It makes the publican lobby happy.

And Frances "I can't drink so why should you be able to" Black

ohnonotgmail · 09-09-2020 12:36PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

And Frances "I can't drink so why should you be able to" Black

nothing worse than a reformed alcoholic

weldoninhio · 09-09-2020 12:36PM

They always use Scotland as an example too when talking about it, how alcohol consumption dropped slightly. They never mention that drug deaths rose rapidly in the same period.

Thelonious Monk · 09-09-2020 12:39PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

nothing worse than a reformed alcoholic

Well I admire reformed alcoholics but not ones who try and make booze more expensive for people who can behave themselves

Atlantic Dawn · 09-09-2020 12:43PM

expectationlost wrote: »

this still hasn't happened gov blaming NI for not implementing it at same time

Yes what would be funny is if the north decided they needed to reduce the duty on alcohol to save a collapsed economy after Brexit, the M1 going in to Newry would be like The Longmile Road.

ohnonotgmail · 09-09-2020 12:46PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well I admire reformed alcoholics but not ones who try and make booze more expensive for people who can behave themselves

i meant in terms of being sanctimonious about alcohol. they assume everybody else has the same issue they have.

elperello · 09-09-2020 01:37PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

And london is expensive compared to the rest of England.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I always found drinking and eating out a good bit cheaper than Dublin, as long as you're not in fancy places in trendy or touristy areas. Eating out here can be so expensive, usually because of the booze.

In a pub in Newcastle last year got a bottle of house wine for £5.

Wednesday Night Wine Night special offer.

Leroy42 · 09-09-2020 01:43PM

Shelflife wrote: »

Something doesnt have to be an election issue to be unwanted. Anyone who buys alcohol obviously doesnt want it and even those who dont buy it cant see the logic in it.

It will affect those on lower incomes dis proportionally more than those on higher incomes and it wont achieve what it proposes to achieve ie: to reduce the amount of alcohol sold and stop problem drinking.

On top of that it creates another cost to the retailer, which again will affect the smaller lower income shops than the big supermarkets.

So all it does it piss everyone off while achieving nothing.

Of course not, but where are the marches, the protests, the sit ins and shut outs?

It would appear that whilst people may think it better not to go this route, they aren't really all that bothered.

They had the perfect opportunity with the recent = election. An election is the time that we are supposed to bring up these issues. People chose not to.

So it seems perfectly reasonable that the TD's now continue on with this on the basis that people really don't mind at all.

No sure what additional costs to the retailer in brings, they will not have to be constantly changing offers. IN terms of who is benefits, the vitners (although I do not see it being much of a benefit), the main brands, retailers themselves (they tend to get a certain margin on products so 20% of €2 is worth more to them than 20% of €1.

I can actually see it benefitting local off licences, there on't be major price wars in the supermarkets anymore.

Hotblack Desiato · 09-09-2020 02:18PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Is that graph relative to average wages or similar benchmark or just a flat price comparison?

EU average = 100, so Finland is 91% more expensive than the EU average, and we're not very far behind them.

Leroy42 · 09-09-2020 02:26PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

EU average = 100, so Finland is 91% more expensive than the EU average, and we're not very far behind them.

Sure, I get that, but it needs to be framed in the context of earnings does it not?

I am not saying that Ireland will not come out of it in the same place, but a fairer comparison, IMO, would be against earnings or maybe average grocery spend or something.

Hotblack Desiato · 09-09-2020 02:28PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course not, but where are the marches, the protests, the sit ins and shut outs?

Many if not most people either aren't aware of this, or only have a vague idea, don't think it'll affect anything other than Dutch Gold, etc.

The media coverage is completely one-sided and often totally inaccurate or a parroted press release with no fact checking whatsoever. Anyone coming out against it publicly is liable to be demonised, it's "Turn Off The Red Light" all over again.

It's hard to mobilise people over an issue that is a hypothetical rather than something which is already happening.

Hotblack Desiato · 09-09-2020 02:30PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sure, I get that, but it needs to be framed in the context of earnings does it not?

Why? Why should alcohol be more expensive simply because wages are higher? It's not like we had cheap alcohol here when we were still poor by European standards.

Geuze · 09-09-2020 02:41PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

So is Bailey's and basically anything, there is so much tax and vat added here....

Beer excise is very similar here and in the UK.

It is not the cause of the price difference.

Diageo charge higher wholesale prices here, this is well known.

We know from the Aviva stadium case, from the Wetherspoons case, etc.

Thelonious Monk · 09-09-2020 02:42PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Why? Why should alcohol be more expensive simply because wages are higher? It's not like we had cheap alcohol here when we were still poor by European standards.

I remember it being dearer 20 years ago or so, as in it was 5 euro for 5 hackenberg, whereas it's still the same now, regardless of wage increases and inflation etc.

Amirani · 09-09-2020 04:07PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Why? Why should alcohol be more expensive simply because wages are higher? It's not like we had cheap alcohol here when we were still poor by European standards.

In order to properly assess how expensive alcohol is here relative to elsewhere, you need to either compare it to prices generally, compare it to wages or look at it in terms of purchasing power parity.

Just showing a chart of alcohol prices alone is fairly meaningless. It's cheapest in Romania, but everything is cheap in Romania so it doesn't tell you much.

weldoninhio · 09-09-2020 04:20PM

Amirani wrote: »

In order to properly assess how expensive alcohol is here relative to elsewhere, you need to either compare it to prices generally, compare it to wages or look at it in terms of purchasing power parity.

Just showing a chart of alcohol prices alone is fairly meaningless. It's cheapest in Romania, but everything is cheap in Romania so it doesn't tell you much.

Is it more expensive to brew beer for Ireland than it is for Romania??

Shelflife · 09-09-2020 05:17PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course not, but where are the marches, the protests, the sit ins and shut outs?

It would appear that whilst people may think it better not to go this route, they aren't really all that bothered.

They had the perfect opportunity with the recent = election. An election is the time that we are supposed to bring up these issues. People chose not to.

So it seems perfectly reasonable that the TD's now continue on with this on the basis that people really don't mind at all.

No sure what additional costs to the retailer in brings, they will not have to be constantly changing offers. IN terms of who is benefits, the vitners (although I do not see it being much of a benefit), the main brands, retailers themselves (they tend to get a certain margin on products so 20% of €2 is worth more to them than 20% of €1.

I can actually see it benefitting local off licences, there on't be major price wars in the supermarkets anymore.

Theres none of that because its not a priority really, in the big scheme of things its pretty low. That doesnt make it right though or make it a good thing to do.

Retailers will gain initially but the increased margin will be quickly eroded by the wholesalers, 20% margin is only available in our dreams though :-)

There are significant costs in the bill for retailers as they now have to cordon off the off licence area and install gates at the entrance, for some its €500-€1000 for others its a significant cost as it will result in a shop layout change that can run into many thousands of euros.

Its doing something to be seen to be doing something.

Its a Public Health bill that will do nothing to improve the health of the public !

09-09-2020 07:03PM

Shelflife wrote: »

Theres none of that because its not a priority really, in the big scheme of things its pretty low. That doesnt make it right though or make it a good thing to do.

Retailers will gain initially but the increased margin will be quickly eroded by the wholesalers, 20% margin is only available in our dreams though :-)

There are significant costs in the bill for retailers as they now have to cordon off the off licence area and install gates at the entrance, for some its €500-€1000 for others its a significant cost as it will result in a shop layout change that can run into many thousands of euros.

Its doing something to be seen to be doing something.

Its a Public Health bill that will do nothing to improve the health of the public !

That has been my take on it all along.
MUP is far from an ideal measure, but some of the reactions on here are way over the top.
Plenty on here said they would make it an election issue, plenty of talk of dictatorships etc.

People will look baton this thread in a few years and wonder WTF were they getting so excited about the price of off license booze for.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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