Parkrun..

robinph · 08-09-2020 2:51pm

average_runner wrote: »

Again I said sport and that's the standard they have to get to.
All online

What is lacking from the parkrun system as far as tracing is concerned do you think?

They have names, they have ages, they have email addresses, they have phone numbers, in some cases they have some medical details, they have home postcode in some instances, they can tell approximately who you are likely to have been running next to, they could probably even tell which scanning volunteer you stood in front of for 2 seconds if they really wanted, they can tell to some extent if you are a local or not from your event history, they can tell what running club you belong to.

average_runner · 08-09-2020 2:53pm

robinph wrote: »

What is lacking from the parkrun system as far as tracing is concerned do you think?

They have names, they have ages, they have email addresses, they have phone numbers, in some cases they have some medical details, they have home postcode in some instances, they can tell approximately who you are likely to have been running next to, they could probably even tell which scanning volunteer you stood in front of for 2 seconds if they really wanted, they can tell to some extent if you are a local or not from your event history, they can tell what running club you belong to.

The part that lacks, is they cannot for sure say they have all contacts of the runners. Some won't have tokens and then there is no record of them.

I have done parkruns in the past without a token or pull out at half way. They will have to track these people to enable it to start up.

robinph · 08-09-2020 3:07pm

average_runner wrote: »

They will have to track these people to enable it to start up.

Why do they need 100% traceability?

If an event is that big of a super spreader event then it will make local/ national/ international news and your not going to be worried about 1 person out of 400 who you couldn't track down as you are dealing with the other 399 people you are already treating and their further contacts.

But I don't see a situation where parkrun or the contact tracing people need to send out anything to an entire event to trace their contacts. What could someone have possibly been doing at a parkrun that they potentially infect the entire field? If the RD went and licked every token before sorting them and each runner then went and licked them themselves then maybe, but other than that how do you infect the whole field?

Maybe Bob gives Mary a hug at the finish because one of them got a longed for PB and Bob then tests positive, but that is then something between Bob and Mary as far as contact tracing goes. There isn't really any reason to contact the rest of the field or parkrun about that, and if Mary tests negative the chain stops there and no reason to follow further. You then want to know where else Bob has been, not the details of the runners who finished either 20 minutes before or after him at a parkrun on a rainy Saturday morning.

average_runner · 08-09-2020 3:14pm

robinph wrote: »

Why do they need 100% traceability?

If an event is that big of a super spreader event then it will make local/ national/ international news and your not going to be worried about 1 person out of 400 who you couldn't track down as you are dealing with the other 399 people you are already treating and their further contacts.

But I don't see a situation where parkrun or the contact tracing people need to send out anything to an entire event to trace their contacts. What could someone have possibly been doing at a parkrun that they potentially infect the entire field? If the RD went and licked every token before sorting them and each runner then went and licked them themselves then maybe, but other than that how do you infect the whole field?

Maybe Bob gives Mary a hug at the finish because one of them got a longed for PB and Bob then tests positive, but that is then something between Bob and Mary as far as contact tracing goes. There isn't really any reason to contact the rest of the field or parkrun about that, and if Mary tests negative the chain stops there and no reason to follow further. You then want to know where else Bob has been, not the details of the runners who finished either 20 minutes before or after him at a parkrun on a rainy Saturday morning.

All athletic clubs have to have contact tracing for all their sessions, chances of picking it up in a session is low, but parkrun is not an exception. It's what the HSE
has as the guideline to follow, clubs aren't doing it for fun

robinph · 08-09-2020 3:25pm

average_runner wrote: »

All athletic clubs have to have contact tracing for all their sessions, chances of picking it up in a session is low, but parkrun is not an exception. It's what the HSE
has as the guideline to follow, clubs aren't doing it for fun

But parkrun is also not an athletics club session with just a handful of people turning up.

When events such as races resume do you expect the organisers to have to collect 100% contact tracing details of everyone on the course, all the spectators, all the people who happen to join in for a bit part way round? When outdoor gigs resume do you expect the details of every person with a ticket to be 100% reliable? Do you expect the contact details of every person through every pub door of an evening to be 100% reliable?

There is no suggestion of parkrun restarting under the current requirements in Ireland. Once the regulations for Ireland change though to something that fits with the parkrun model, or with a couple of very minor tweaks, then it will return. But the 90%+ contact tracing of parkrun participants is going to be way above what any other similar sized event can achieve for all their participants and spectators.

average_runner · 08-09-2020 3:42pm

robinph wrote: »

But parkrun is also not an athletics club session with just a handful of people turning up.

When events such as races resume do you expect the organisers to have to collect 100% contact tracing details of everyone on the course, all the spectators, all the people who happen to join in for a bit part way round? When outdoor gigs resume do you expect the details of every person with a ticket to be 100% reliable? Do you expect the contact details of every person through every pub door of an evening to be 100% reliable?

There is no suggestion of parkrun restarting under the current requirements in Ireland. Once the regulations for Ireland change though to something that fits with the parkrun model, or with a couple of very minor tweaks, then it will return. But the 90%+ contact tracing of parkrun participants is going to be way above what any other similar sized event can achieve for all their participants and spectators.

As you said, you can't stop people from joining in on a race, but a race can ensure that all who starts are contactable by ensuring the number is valid. Produce ID when signing in.

If they find someone else used that number, just ban the athlete that owned it for a year or so, has happened in the past here.

Parkrun in the current format, cannot ensure that everyone who starts, is in their system and if one drops out they have no idea

Sunny Dayz · 08-09-2020 3:53pm

average_runner wrote: »

The part that lacks, is they cannot for sure say they have all contacts of the runners. Some won't have tokens and then there is no record of them.

I have done parkruns in the past without a token or pull out at half way. They will have to track these people to enable it to start up.

I wonder would it be an idea to temporarily do away with the "no barcode, no time" rule? From my experience of parkrun, many of those without a barcode at an event were regulars who just happened to forget their barcode or people joining parkrun for the first time and not had a chance to print their barcode. I know manually putting in barcode numbers can take a bit of time. But can you do this with the phone system - I've only ever used scanners and processed results on the laptop.

average_runner · 08-09-2020 4:00pm

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

I wonder would it be an idea to temporarily do away with the "no barcode, no time" rule? From my experience of parkrun, many of those without a barcode at an event were regulars who just happened to forget their barcode or people joining parkrun for the first time and not had a chance to print their barcode. I know manually putting in barcode numbers can take a bit of time. But can you do this with the phone system - I've only ever used scanners and processed results on the laptop.

That is happening now at our local park. Large group doing their parkrun every sat

Sunny Dayz · 08-09-2020 4:15pm

OOnegative wrote: »

https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2020/09/07/return-of-parkrun-announcement/

A little surprised that they are restarting in England only and not the whole of the UK. I'm not up to speed with what covid numbers are like in different regions of the UK. But I would have thought Scotland would have been a better place to restart given the more remote locations of some of their parkruns. (Forgive me if I'm mistaken in that assumption!)

I'm not going to lie - the announcement last night made me feel anxious about parkrun restarting in Ireland. Firstly I do miss parkrun, the routine of it and the people I would meet at it. But I'm also a run director and I would be a bit nervous with covid guideline adherence. I'm starting back kids coaching next week and am very nervous about that.

robinph · 08-09-2020 4:34pm

average_runner wrote: »

Parkrun in the current format, cannot ensure that everyone who starts, is in their system and if one drops out they have no idea

That won't change though and parkrun HQ would consider that one of the things which would break parkrun if governments made 100% traceability before an event a requirement.

Part of what makes parkrun work is the simplicity of just turn up and run. They would like you to have a barcode, but have never required it and will never require it. Unless governments mandate everyones movements to be 100% traceable 100% of the time, and that would be down to the government to enforce and carry out, then that kind of system isn't going to exist at parkrun.

Whilst parkrun can't currently happen in Ireland, it is the government position that will need to shift towards what parkrun considers acceptable for it to restart their events. If Ireland say that events up to 500 can happen in parks but they still want 100% traceability then maybe parkrun would change their system, but I seriously doubt the government will require that when they allow those numbers to gather, and I seriously doubt that parkrun will take on the responsibility for confirming who else is wandering around the park at the time.

average_runner · 08-09-2020 8:45pm

robinph wrote: »

That won't change though and parkrun HQ would consider that one of the things which would break parkrun if governments made 100% traceability before an event a requirement.

Part of what makes parkrun work is the simplicity of just turn up and run. They would like you to have a barcode, but have never required it and will never require it. Unless governments mandate everyones movements to be 100% traceable 100% of the time, and that would be down to the government to enforce and carry out, then that kind of system isn't going to exist at parkrun.

Whilst parkrun can't currently happen in Ireland, it is the government position that will need to shift towards what parkrun considers acceptable for it to restart their events. If Ireland say that events up to 500 can happen in parks but they still want 100% traceability then maybe parkrun would change their system, but I seriously doubt the government will require that when they allow those numbers to gather, and I seriously doubt that parkrun will take on the responsibility for confirming who else is wandering around the park at the time.

We wont see one this year I say. Doubt UK will see it also. Let's hope next year brings more luck.

Today's numbers were a disaster for alot of counties here sadly

robinph · 08-09-2020 9:03pm

average_runner wrote: »

We wont see one this year I say. Doubt UK will see it also. Let's hope next year brings more luck.

Today's numbers were a disaster for alot of counties here sadly

Unless something new comes out regarding the risk of transmission in outdoor environments that would cause the UK government to backtrack don't see why it would need to be delayed until next year. A massive spike in hospital admissions might cause a return to complete lockdown in which case all bets are off, but at the moment that's not happening in the UK, or showing much signs of happening.

If the current spikes in positive cases can be limited by restricting people gathering indoors then that wouldn't mean an outdoor event needs to be cancelled.

average_runner · 08-09-2020 10:07pm

robinph wrote: »

Unless something new comes out regarding the risk of transmission in outdoor environments that would cause the UK government to backtrack don't see why it would need to be delayed until next year. A massive spike in hospital admissions might cause a return to complete lockdown in which case all bets are off, but at the moment that's not happening in the UK, or showing much signs of happening.

If the current spikes in positive cases can be limited by restricting people gathering indoors then that wouldn't mean an outdoor event needs to be cancelled.

Cases have doubled in a few days in the uk. UK are two weeks behind the rest in the numbers, so they be at 10 000 by two weeks. A tough winter ahead but hopefully it's a weaker strain, higher infection, lower desths.

On sky news
"A ban on groups of more than six people gathering in homes, parks, pubs and restaurants in England is being imposed by Boris Johnson in the biggest coronavirus crackdown since lockdown rules were eased."

rovers_runner · 09-09-2020 7:46am

April 2021.....

robinph · 09-09-2020 7:56am

The change overnight is just making the gathering of group bigger than 6 against the law so that police can enforce it properly. There is no change from what the previous recommendations were or what guidance althetics clubs were following.

Tweet this morning from Tom Williams saying that it doesn't apply to parkrun and is no change as far as they are concerned. Trails of 2000(?) people turning up the watch horse racing is still going ahead today.

average_runner · 09-09-2020 10:26am

robinph wrote: »

The change overnight is just making the gathering of group bigger than 6 against the law so that police can enforce it properly. There is no change from what the previous recommendations were or what guidance althetics clubs were following.

Tweet this morning from Tom Williams saying that it doesn't apply to parkrun and is no change as far as they are concerned. Trails of 2000(?) people turning up the watch horse racing is still going ahead today.

But that is in a control environment and all traceable. Controllable environments will get the go ahead first, how long that takes I don't know.

DeepBlue · 09-09-2020 11:42am

robinph wrote: »

Trails of 2000(?) people turning up the watch horse racing is still going ahead today.

Interesting.
Has there been any research/evidence presented to quantify the risk associated with parkrun? parkrun themselves have alluded to some research they were doing but I don't know if the results of that have been released publicly.

As Dr Ronan Glynn has alluded to already the risk associated with sporting events is the crowds that gather before and after rather than the risk for the participants. That's not an issue really for parkrun as it can readily be ameliorated and the numbers are not that much comparably.

If people want events to be zero risk then parkrun is over as that ship has sailed. However it's quite possible to run parkrun at very negligible risk. The issue remains how to quantify that and put a number on it.

robinph · 09-09-2020 12:03pm

Here is a link to the research that parkrun funded to look into instances of outdoor transmission, which basically found nothing much at all to show it had happened:

https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2020/09/02/rapid-review-of-evidence-for-outdoor-transmission-of-covid-19-published/

average_runner · 09-09-2020 1:30pm

robinph wrote: »

Here is a link to the research that parkrun funded to look into instances of outdoor transmission, which basically found nothing much at all to show it had happened:

https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2020/09/02/rapid-review-of-evidence-for-outdoor-transmission-of-covid-19-published/

Boris has shut it down now anyhow.

Team sport can go ahead, no issue regarding team sport in Ireland at the moment

robinph · 09-09-2020 1:52pm

average_runner wrote: »

Boris has shut it down now anyhow.

Team sport can go ahead, no issue regarding team sport in Ireland at the moment

No he hasn't. Things "such as organised team sport" will be exempt from the new laws and what the "such as" bit refers to hasn't been spelt out anywhere as of yet.

All the new law is intended for is to give the police additional power to break up gatherings, the guidelines were no more than 6 could meet up outside, that is then going to become a law that no more than 6 can meet outside. Doesn't change anything else as far as we know yet, and also doesn't affect parkruns return if their framework remains approved by the government, which is what the announcement two days ago was all about as it had been agreed by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport.

average_runner · 09-09-2020 4:30pm

robinph wrote: »

No he hasn't. Things "such as organised team sport" will be exempt from the new laws and what the "such as" bit refers to hasn't been spelt out anywhere as of yet.

All the new law is intended for is to give the police additional power to break up gatherings, the guidelines were no more than 6 could meet up outside, that is then going to become a law that no more than 6 can meet outside. Doesn't change anything else as far as we know yet, and also doesn't affect parkruns return if their framework remains approved by the government, which is what the announcement two days ago was all about as it had been agreed by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport.

Hopefully you get your event back

ArmaniJeanss · 09-09-2020 5:18pm

robinph wrote: »

Tweet this morning from Tom Williams saying that it doesn't apply to parkrun and is no change as far as they are concerned. Trails of 2000(?) people turning up the watch horse racing is still going ahead today.

Horse-racing experiment abandoned - remainder of the Doncaster St Leger meeting will be behind closed doors. Decision seems to have been council-led.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/horse-racing/54084761

robinph · 09-09-2020 5:39pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Horse-racing experiment abandoned - remainder of the Doncaster St Leger meeting will be behind closed doors. Decision seems to have been council-led.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/horse-racing/54084761

New limit of 1000 people for those trials of spectators at events, and as they had sold over that number for the next days easier to just cancel them all this time round I guess. They haven't abandoned the trials, just changed the limits for now.

Sunny Dayz · 09-09-2020 10:39pm

I’m not going to lie - I’m a bit jealous of England possibly getting a parkrun restart next month! I’m in a parkrun Facebook group and so many excited people I’m a bit green with envy.

Murph_D · 10-09-2020 9:00am

Dunno. It beggars belief in my book. I’m missing parkrun as much, and more, as anyone but I think this is premature. If I was in England I’d be avoiding it.

robinph · 10-09-2020 9:11am

I'm going to avoid crowded coffee shops, although most of my regular events we'd head to a slightly less busy one anyway if coffee shopping, I'll avoid chatting to people in the start area and probably wear a mask for that bit if I happen to be starting in the middle of the pack. Prior to lining up at the start it's normally possible to spread out enough at most events.

I'll most likely be starting at the back with a reluctant kid though and debating with myself if I should have brought the buggy instead. If I were running with the buggy as previously though I'd have no problem with the crowds on the way round, or the lapping of people or being lapped and would happily jump in to provide additional scanning person power at the finish line.

I think they have enough things covered in their framework on how to make things safer, and it's certainly a safer environment than going to the pub, the coffee shop or even the supermarket.

ISOP · 10-09-2020 9:36am

Can't wait for this to return

average_runner · 10-09-2020 1:55pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Dunno. It beggars belief in my book. I’m missing parkrun as much, and more, as anyone but I think this is premature. If I was in England I’d be avoiding it.

I feel UK parkrun have rushed this and looking at the tweets from one of their top guys you can see how this has happened. One of them on twitter posting information about covid with no research at all. Saying numbers are down in Spain etc, while Spain said these numbers are inaccurate clearly on the official site.

For the last few weeks they have posted statements of "could" etc to get people to believe Covid is going or gone.

Very poor judgment I believe.

robinph · 10-09-2020 2:26pm

average_runner wrote: »

I feel UK parkrun have rushed this and looking at the tweets from one of their top guys you can see how this has happened. One of them on twitter posting information about covid with no research at all. Saying numbers are down in Spain etc, while Spain said these numbers are inaccurate clearly on the official site.

For the last few weeks they have posted statements of "could" etc to get people to believe Covid is going or gone.

Very poor judgment I believe.

Poor judgement about the risks of catching anything during a parkrun, or poor judgement about how a gathering of 150 people in a park will be perceived by a couple of passing dog walkers?

There isn't anything I'm aware of to suggest that parkrun itself is a dangerous activity to take part in regarding Covid19. There may be reason to not go ahead with parkrun because it may make it harder to police other activities that are not being done under the same regulations.

average_runner · 10-09-2020 3:23pm

robinph wrote: »

Poor judgement about the risks of catching anything during a parkrun, or poor judgement about how a gathering of 150 people in a park will be perceived by a couple of passing dog walkers?

There isn't anything I'm aware of to suggest that parkrun itself is a dangerous activity to take part in regarding Covid19. There may be reason to not go ahead with parkrun because it may make it harder to police other activities that are not being done under the same regulations.

I believe his comments on twitter are a poor judgement.

rovers_runner · 10-09-2020 10:15pm

Parkrun will ruin it for the rest of us who are waiting on properly run events with registrations.

Parkrun allows people attend and take part with no bib/registration recorded. It would be a sickner to see this social event ruin it for the rest of the running community.

eoinín · 10-09-2020 11:01pm

rovers_runner wrote: »

Parkrun will ruin it for the rest of us who are waiting on properly run events with registrations.

Parkrun allows people attend and take part with no bib/registration recorded. It would be a sickner to see this social event ruin it for the rest of the running community.

What percentage of the running community don't take part in parkrun? And what anti-social events are they waiting for? There's "properly run events" with shiny bibs already taking place for anyone who wants to take part.

rovers_runner · 11-09-2020 7:55am

eoinín wrote: »

What percentage of the running community don't take part in parkrun? And what anti-social events are they waiting for? There's "properly run events" with shiny bibs already taking place for anyone who wants to take part.

A lot don't and won't, parkrun/parkwalk panders to the lazy who need a social outlet for their once a week shuffle.

Runs that already by design kept a record of who took part.

There are a couple here and there run for profit by companies. Granted they do manage to ensure participants have all registered unlike parkrun.

SnappyDresser · 11-09-2020 8:40am

rovers_runner wrote: »

A lot don't and won't, parkrun/parkwalk panders to the lazy who need a social outlet for their once a week shuffle.

Runs that already by design kept a record of who took part.

There are a couple here and there run for profit by companies. Granted they do manage to ensure participants have all registered unlike parkrun.

Parkrun is probably the best health initiative of the past 10 years. It is truly a wonderful concept. It is deeply treasured. Your harsh and inaccurate words won't stop the return of parkrun. It caters for the top athletes to people like my 86 year old Dad who still parkruns every week.

rovers_runner · 11-09-2020 9:12am

i008787 wrote: »

Parkrun is probably the best health initiative of the past 10 years. It is truly a wonderful concept. It is deeply treasured. Your harsh and inaccurate words won't stop the return of parkrun. It caters for the top athletes to people like my 86 year old Dad who still parkruns every week.

Name another sporting event or organization that takes pride in regression of
participants performance.
Surely those who started many years ago would be improving now, decreasing the average finish time?
Where is the promotion of improvement in fitness or times, there is none.
Everyone is a winner, medals for all, coffee and cake etc.

https://blog.parkrun.com/ie/2019/10/02/a-look-back-at-15-years-of-parkrun/

Average finish times

In 2005, the average finish time for completing a parkrun was 22:17. In 2018, it was 32:29.

SnappyDresser · 11-09-2020 9:19am

rovers_runner wrote: »

Name another sporting event or organization that takes pride in regression of
participants performance.
Surely those who started many years ago would be improving now, decreasing the average finish time?
Where is the promotion of improvement in fitness or times, there is none.
Everyone is a winner, medals for all, coffee and cake etc.

https://blog.parkrun.com/ie/2019/10/02/a-look-back-at-15-years-of-parkrun/

Average finish times

In 2005, the average finish time for completing a parkrun was 22:17. In 2018, it was 32:29.

I do Parkrun for myself and try to give it 100% everytime I go out. However its the social and community aspect right across the country that made it truly special and getting people who would not do exercise to go out and try and get fit while not worrying too much about the competitive aspect. If you are competitive then of course clubs are there for that but for the vast majority joining a club is met with an "Meh, not for me" and this is fair enough, that is where Parkrun fills a niche. Because the numbers exploded it attracted those who just want to go out and as you say Shuffle around. Take my Dad. Has 8 national titles in 8 different decades(yes you read that right) and loves the Parkrun concept as there is age category records on different courses to be had

The Black Oil · 11-09-2020 9:21am

Oh, not this again.

robinph · 11-09-2020 9:29am

rovers_runner wrote: »

Name another sporting event or organization that takes pride in regression of
participants performance.
Surely those who started many years ago would be improving now, decreasing the average finish time?
Where is the promotion of improvement in fitness or times, there is none.
Everyone is a winner, medals for all, coffee and cake etc.

https://blog.parkrun.com/ie/2019/10/02/a-look-back-at-15-years-of-parkrun/

Average finish times

In 2005, the average finish time for completing a parkrun was 22:17. In 2018, it was 32:29.

You have totally missed the point of their pride in the average times getting slower. It is admittedly deliberately worded like that so that you think it's an odd statement for them to make, but it is absolutely nothing to do with an individual getting slower. As you well know it is all about the number of people getting larger, and the range of abilities of those people getting wider.

An individual getting faster is something good, which they celebrate. More of the population taking part is way better though.

Insect Overlord · 11-09-2020 9:32am

rovers_runner wrote: »

Name another sporting event or organization that takes pride in regression of
participants performance.

Wow. Congratulations on spectacularly missing the point. :pac: :pac: :pac:

rovers_runner · 11-09-2020 9:36am

robinph wrote: »

You have totally missed the point of their pride in the average times getting slower. It is admittedly deliberately worded like that so that you think it's an odd statement for them to make, but it is absolutely nothing to do with an individual getting slower. As you well know it is all about the number of people getting larger, and the range of abilities of those people getting wider.

An individual getting faster is something good, which they celebrate. More of the population taking part is way better though.

I think you are missing the point that parkrun has reached a point over the years where there are far more people walking than running, and it's no longer parkrun, rather "parkwalk/run/whatever suits".
With an average time of 32 mins + where does that leave the higher range of times, 40+ mins, now if someone is taking 40+ mins to cover 5k they aren't running.

This is acceptable to the organizers as their main concern is growth and popularity rather than people actually improving.

robinph · 11-09-2020 9:43am

rovers_runner wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that parkrun has reached a point over the years where there are far more people walking than running, and it's no longer parkrun, rather "parkwalk/run/whatever suits".
With an average time of 32 mins + where does that leave the higher range of times, 40+ mins, now if someone is taking 40+ mins to cover 5k they aren't running.

This is acceptable to the organizers as their main concern is growth and popularity rather than people actually improving.

There is nothing like more people walking than running. Even in South Africa where the ratio is much more towards the slower times, they are a long way from having a majority of walkers.

The main concern of parkrun is participation. By getting people to participate they are getting them to improve from their previous sedentary Saturday morning lifestyle. There isn't anything I've seen to suggest that once someone starts doing 5km at parkrun they then become slower at covering 5km.

The individual becomes faster, but parkrun becomes slower due to the increased range of times.

average_runner · 11-09-2020 11:34am

i008787 wrote: »

Parkrun is probably the best health initiative of the past 10 years. It is truly a wonderful concept. It is deeply treasured. Your harsh and inaccurate words won't stop the return of parkrun. It caters for the top athletes to people like my 86 year old Dad who still parkruns every week.

Parkrun is a run and not a race. To top athletes it doesn't offer much but that was never the aim.

It's a social gathering to help people get fit and it achieves that.

average_runner · 11-09-2020 11:36am

robinph wrote: »

There is nothing like more people walking than running. Even in South Africa where the ratio is much more towards the slower times, they are a long way from having a majority of walkers.

The main concern of parkrun is participation. By getting people to participate they are getting them to improve from their previous sedentary Saturday morning lifestyle. There isn't anything I've seen to suggest that once someone starts doing 5km at parkrun they then become slower at covering 5km.

The individual becomes faster, but parkrun becomes slower due to the increased range of times.

I would like to.see the evidence on that. My parkrun times are getting slower each year:)

robinph · 11-09-2020 11:44am

average_runner wrote: »

Parkrun is a run and not a race. To top athletes it doesn't offer much but that was never the aim.

It's a social gathering to help people get fit and it achieves that.

Define top athletes?

There are a fair number of UK internationals who participate whilst still in the prime of their career. The female parkrun record having been broken a couple of times by internationals within the last year. The male with the most different parkrun course records will be running in the elite field in London next month, and regularly volunteers, I got handed my finish token by them at a London parkrun a couple of years ago with them dressed as spiderman.

If meaning just local top level runners there are plenty of the winners of local actual races who I'd regularly see at various local parkruns. One of my more recent first finishers at a local event was thanks to a regular first finisher walking parkrun that day as they were then running in the national road relays later in the day. As was I, but their team won a national medal, we just managed to get around with only getting lapped the once.

There is plenty at parkrun for the full range of athletes.

average_runner · 11-09-2020 12:38pm

robinph wrote: »

Define top athletes?

There are a fair number of UK internationals who participate whilst still in the prime of their career. The female parkrun record having been broken a couple of times by internationals within the last year. The male with the most different parkrun course records will be running in the elite field in London next month, and regularly volunteers, I got handed my finish token by them at a London parkrun a couple of years ago with them dressed as spiderman.

If meaning just local top level runners there are plenty of the winners of local actual races who I'd regularly see at various local parkruns. One of my more recent first finishers at a local event was thanks to a regular first finisher walking parkrun that day as they were then running in the national road relays later in the day. As was I, but their team won a national medal, we just managed to get around with only getting lapped the once.

There is plenty at parkrun for the full range of athletes.

Yes its a social group. All the above points to that. Times are not important or a part of parkrun.

robinph · 11-09-2020 12:54pm

average_runner wrote: »

Times are not important or a part of parkrun.

Times are pretty important part of parkrun if you have international athletes running the same time in a parkrun as they do in a road 5km or for a track 5000m during 2019:

https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=17290
https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=57843

Think they care about the effort/ times that they have put into parkrun, despite the fact that they are not getting prize money for running them. They are still doing equivalent efforts.

But you are right that at the same time parkrun times don't matter, the fact that the times are recorded matters (regardless of if the individual cares about it at the time or not). The option of someone seeing their time is an important motivation to show progress from having picked the options to parkrun of a Saturday morning rather than stay in bed, and it's also important for the elites to see what they are doing, and for those of us in the middle.

The time is important because it doesn't matter unless you personally want it to, but it is essential that it is timed in case you do.

average_runner · 11-09-2020 3:47pm

robinph wrote: »

Times are pretty important part of parkrun if you have international athletes running the same time in a parkrun as they do in a road 5km or for a track 5000m during 2019:

https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=17290
https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=57843

Think they care about the effort/ times that they have put into parkrun, despite the fact that they are not getting prize money for running them. They are still doing equivalent efforts.

But you are right that at the same time parkrun times don't matter, the fact that the times are recorded matters (regardless of if the individual cares about it at the time or not). The option of someone seeing their time is an important motivation to show progress from having picked the options to parkrun of a Saturday morning rather than stay in bed, and it's also important for the elites to see what they are doing, and for those of us in the middle.

The time is important because it doesn't matter unless you personally want it to, but it is essential that it is timed in case you do.

Enjoy the run when it comes along. Could be awhile before Ireland see it.

Annie get your Run · 12-09-2020 4:11pm

rovers_runner wrote: »

parkrun/parkwalk panders to the lazy who need a social outlet for their once a week shuffle.

I can't quite believe you came in here to insult every person on this thread that participates/participated in parkrun, many of whom run it as part of their 30/40/50+ a week mileage, along with the thousands of others not on this thread who also run regularly and participate in parkrun. Not to mention those 'lazy' people who never ran before and started doing parkrun and are now running regularly. But yeah, parkrun = lazy people.... :rolleyes:. In fact most of the core team members I know are fast marathon runners, ultra marathon runners, adventure racers etc.

average_runner wrote: »

Parkrun is a run and not a race. To top athletes it doesn't offer much but that was never the aim.

It's a social gathering to help people get fit and it achieves that.

Curious to know then why so many top athletes took part every week?

Yes it's run and not a race, but there are many top athletes, fast club runners, competitive club and non club runners that were taking part in parkrun regularly. People used it as part of their marathon training including parkrun in long runs, tempos, race prep etc. The fantastic thing about parkrun, and the thing I miss the most is the large mix of people, fast, slow, etc. all learning from each other, all passionate about something that, in my opinion, caters for absolutely everyone.

I am so looking forward to its return, I don't think that will be any time soon but nonetheless it will eventually be back.

rovers_runner · 12-09-2020 4:33pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I can't quite believe you came in here to insult every person on this thread that participates/participated in parkrun, many of whom run it as part of their 30/40/50+ a week mileage, along with the thousands of others not on this thread who also run regularly and participate in parkrun. Not to mention those 'lazy' people who never ran before and started doing parkrun and are now running regularly. But yeah, parkrun = lazy people.... :rolleyes:. In fact most of the core team members I know are fast marathon runners, ultra marathon runners, adventure racers etc.

Curious to know then why so many top athletes took part every week?

Yes it's run and not a race, but there are many top athletes, fast club runners, competitive club and non club runners that were taking part in parkrun regularly. People used it as part of their marathon training including parkrun in long runs, tempos, race prep etc. The fantastic thing about parkrun, and the thing I miss the most is the large mix of people, fast, slow, etc. all learning from each other, all passionate about something that, in my opinion, caters for absolutely everyone.

I am so looking forward to its return, I don't think that will be any time soon but nonetheless it will eventually be back.

Get off your high horse and actually address some of the facts I stated about the regression of times over the years and how parkrun does nothing to promote healthy lifestyles or actually improving personal fitness.

It's a social event run by a limited company.

Annie get your Run · 12-09-2020 4:38pm

rovers_runner wrote: »

Get off your high horse and actually address some of the facts I stated about the regression of times over the years and how parkrun does nothing to promote healthy lifestyles or actually improving personal fitness.

It's a social event run by a limited company.

Facts? Are they from the DJT school of thought?

I see nothing factual in your post, I see your opinion to which you are entitled but zero facts...

Parkrun..

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