Parkrun..

average_runner · 08-09-2020 8:45pm

robinph wrote: »

That won't change though and parkrun HQ would consider that one of the things which would break parkrun if governments made 100% traceability before an event a requirement.

Part of what makes parkrun work is the simplicity of just turn up and run. They would like you to have a barcode, but have never required it and will never require it. Unless governments mandate everyones movements to be 100% traceable 100% of the time, and that would be down to the government to enforce and carry out, then that kind of system isn't going to exist at parkrun.

Whilst parkrun can't currently happen in Ireland, it is the government position that will need to shift towards what parkrun considers acceptable for it to restart their events. If Ireland say that events up to 500 can happen in parks but they still want 100% traceability then maybe parkrun would change their system, but I seriously doubt the government will require that when they allow those numbers to gather, and I seriously doubt that parkrun will take on the responsibility for confirming who else is wandering around the park at the time.

We wont see one this year I say. Doubt UK will see it also. Let's hope next year brings more luck.

Today's numbers were a disaster for alot of counties here sadly

robinph · 08-09-2020 9:03pm

average_runner wrote: »

We wont see one this year I say. Doubt UK will see it also. Let's hope next year brings more luck.

Today's numbers were a disaster for alot of counties here sadly

Unless something new comes out regarding the risk of transmission in outdoor environments that would cause the UK government to backtrack don't see why it would need to be delayed until next year. A massive spike in hospital admissions might cause a return to complete lockdown in which case all bets are off, but at the moment that's not happening in the UK, or showing much signs of happening.

If the current spikes in positive cases can be limited by restricting people gathering indoors then that wouldn't mean an outdoor event needs to be cancelled.

average_runner · 08-09-2020 10:07pm

robinph wrote: »

Unless something new comes out regarding the risk of transmission in outdoor environments that would cause the UK government to backtrack don't see why it would need to be delayed until next year. A massive spike in hospital admissions might cause a return to complete lockdown in which case all bets are off, but at the moment that's not happening in the UK, or showing much signs of happening.

If the current spikes in positive cases can be limited by restricting people gathering indoors then that wouldn't mean an outdoor event needs to be cancelled.

Cases have doubled in a few days in the uk. UK are two weeks behind the rest in the numbers, so they be at 10 000 by two weeks. A tough winter ahead but hopefully it's a weaker strain, higher infection, lower desths.

On sky news
"A ban on groups of more than six people gathering in homes, parks, pubs and restaurants in England is being imposed by Boris Johnson in the biggest coronavirus crackdown since lockdown rules were eased."

rovers_runner · 09-09-2020 7:46am

April 2021.....

robinph · 09-09-2020 7:56am

The change overnight is just making the gathering of group bigger than 6 against the law so that police can enforce it properly. There is no change from what the previous recommendations were or what guidance althetics clubs were following.

Tweet this morning from Tom Williams saying that it doesn't apply to parkrun and is no change as far as they are concerned. Trails of 2000(?) people turning up the watch horse racing is still going ahead today.

average_runner · 09-09-2020 10:26am

robinph wrote: »

The change overnight is just making the gathering of group bigger than 6 against the law so that police can enforce it properly. There is no change from what the previous recommendations were or what guidance althetics clubs were following.

Tweet this morning from Tom Williams saying that it doesn't apply to parkrun and is no change as far as they are concerned. Trails of 2000(?) people turning up the watch horse racing is still going ahead today.

But that is in a control environment and all traceable. Controllable environments will get the go ahead first, how long that takes I don't know.

DeepBlue · 09-09-2020 11:42am

robinph wrote: »

Trails of 2000(?) people turning up the watch horse racing is still going ahead today.

Interesting.
Has there been any research/evidence presented to quantify the risk associated with parkrun? parkrun themselves have alluded to some research they were doing but I don't know if the results of that have been released publicly.

As Dr Ronan Glynn has alluded to already the risk associated with sporting events is the crowds that gather before and after rather than the risk for the participants. That's not an issue really for parkrun as it can readily be ameliorated and the numbers are not that much comparably.

If people want events to be zero risk then parkrun is over as that ship has sailed. However it's quite possible to run parkrun at very negligible risk. The issue remains how to quantify that and put a number on it.

robinph · 09-09-2020 12:03pm

Here is a link to the research that parkrun funded to look into instances of outdoor transmission, which basically found nothing much at all to show it had happened:

https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2020/09/02/rapid-review-of-evidence-for-outdoor-transmission-of-covid-19-published/

average_runner · 09-09-2020 1:30pm

robinph wrote: »

Here is a link to the research that parkrun funded to look into instances of outdoor transmission, which basically found nothing much at all to show it had happened:

https://blog.parkrun.com/uk/2020/09/02/rapid-review-of-evidence-for-outdoor-transmission-of-covid-19-published/

Boris has shut it down now anyhow.

Team sport can go ahead, no issue regarding team sport in Ireland at the moment

robinph · 09-09-2020 1:52pm

average_runner wrote: »

Boris has shut it down now anyhow.

Team sport can go ahead, no issue regarding team sport in Ireland at the moment

No he hasn't. Things "such as organised team sport" will be exempt from the new laws and what the "such as" bit refers to hasn't been spelt out anywhere as of yet.

All the new law is intended for is to give the police additional power to break up gatherings, the guidelines were no more than 6 could meet up outside, that is then going to become a law that no more than 6 can meet outside. Doesn't change anything else as far as we know yet, and also doesn't affect parkruns return if their framework remains approved by the government, which is what the announcement two days ago was all about as it had been agreed by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport.

average_runner · 09-09-2020 4:30pm

robinph wrote: »

No he hasn't. Things "such as organised team sport" will be exempt from the new laws and what the "such as" bit refers to hasn't been spelt out anywhere as of yet.

All the new law is intended for is to give the police additional power to break up gatherings, the guidelines were no more than 6 could meet up outside, that is then going to become a law that no more than 6 can meet outside. Doesn't change anything else as far as we know yet, and also doesn't affect parkruns return if their framework remains approved by the government, which is what the announcement two days ago was all about as it had been agreed by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport.

Hopefully you get your event back

ArmaniJeanss · 09-09-2020 5:18pm

robinph wrote: »

Tweet this morning from Tom Williams saying that it doesn't apply to parkrun and is no change as far as they are concerned. Trails of 2000(?) people turning up the watch horse racing is still going ahead today.

Horse-racing experiment abandoned - remainder of the Doncaster St Leger meeting will be behind closed doors. Decision seems to have been council-led.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/horse-racing/54084761

robinph · 09-09-2020 5:39pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Horse-racing experiment abandoned - remainder of the Doncaster St Leger meeting will be behind closed doors. Decision seems to have been council-led.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/horse-racing/54084761

New limit of 1000 people for those trials of spectators at events, and as they had sold over that number for the next days easier to just cancel them all this time round I guess. They haven't abandoned the trials, just changed the limits for now.

Sunny Dayz · 09-09-2020 10:39pm

I’m not going to lie - I’m a bit jealous of England possibly getting a parkrun restart next month! I’m in a parkrun Facebook group and so many excited people I’m a bit green with envy.

Murph_D · 10-09-2020 9:00am

Dunno. It beggars belief in my book. I’m missing parkrun as much, and more, as anyone but I think this is premature. If I was in England I’d be avoiding it.

robinph · 10-09-2020 9:11am

I'm going to avoid crowded coffee shops, although most of my regular events we'd head to a slightly less busy one anyway if coffee shopping, I'll avoid chatting to people in the start area and probably wear a mask for that bit if I happen to be starting in the middle of the pack. Prior to lining up at the start it's normally possible to spread out enough at most events.

I'll most likely be starting at the back with a reluctant kid though and debating with myself if I should have brought the buggy instead. If I were running with the buggy as previously though I'd have no problem with the crowds on the way round, or the lapping of people or being lapped and would happily jump in to provide additional scanning person power at the finish line.

I think they have enough things covered in their framework on how to make things safer, and it's certainly a safer environment than going to the pub, the coffee shop or even the supermarket.

ISOP · 10-09-2020 9:36am

Can't wait for this to return

average_runner · 10-09-2020 1:55pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Dunno. It beggars belief in my book. I’m missing parkrun as much, and more, as anyone but I think this is premature. If I was in England I’d be avoiding it.

I feel UK parkrun have rushed this and looking at the tweets from one of their top guys you can see how this has happened. One of them on twitter posting information about covid with no research at all. Saying numbers are down in Spain etc, while Spain said these numbers are inaccurate clearly on the official site.

For the last few weeks they have posted statements of "could" etc to get people to believe Covid is going or gone.

Very poor judgment I believe.

robinph · 10-09-2020 2:26pm

average_runner wrote: »

I feel UK parkrun have rushed this and looking at the tweets from one of their top guys you can see how this has happened. One of them on twitter posting information about covid with no research at all. Saying numbers are down in Spain etc, while Spain said these numbers are inaccurate clearly on the official site.

For the last few weeks they have posted statements of "could" etc to get people to believe Covid is going or gone.

Very poor judgment I believe.

Poor judgement about the risks of catching anything during a parkrun, or poor judgement about how a gathering of 150 people in a park will be perceived by a couple of passing dog walkers?

There isn't anything I'm aware of to suggest that parkrun itself is a dangerous activity to take part in regarding Covid19. There may be reason to not go ahead with parkrun because it may make it harder to police other activities that are not being done under the same regulations.

average_runner · 10-09-2020 3:23pm

robinph wrote: »

Poor judgement about the risks of catching anything during a parkrun, or poor judgement about how a gathering of 150 people in a park will be perceived by a couple of passing dog walkers?

There isn't anything I'm aware of to suggest that parkrun itself is a dangerous activity to take part in regarding Covid19. There may be reason to not go ahead with parkrun because it may make it harder to police other activities that are not being done under the same regulations.

I believe his comments on twitter are a poor judgement.

rovers_runner · 10-09-2020 10:15pm

Parkrun will ruin it for the rest of us who are waiting on properly run events with registrations.

Parkrun allows people attend and take part with no bib/registration recorded. It would be a sickner to see this social event ruin it for the rest of the running community.

eoinín · 10-09-2020 11:01pm

rovers_runner wrote: »

Parkrun will ruin it for the rest of us who are waiting on properly run events with registrations.

Parkrun allows people attend and take part with no bib/registration recorded. It would be a sickner to see this social event ruin it for the rest of the running community.

What percentage of the running community don't take part in parkrun? And what anti-social events are they waiting for? There's "properly run events" with shiny bibs already taking place for anyone who wants to take part.

rovers_runner · 11-09-2020 7:55am

eoinín wrote: »

What percentage of the running community don't take part in parkrun? And what anti-social events are they waiting for? There's "properly run events" with shiny bibs already taking place for anyone who wants to take part.

A lot don't and won't, parkrun/parkwalk panders to the lazy who need a social outlet for their once a week shuffle.

Runs that already by design kept a record of who took part.

There are a couple here and there run for profit by companies. Granted they do manage to ensure participants have all registered unlike parkrun.

SnappyDresser · 11-09-2020 8:40am

rovers_runner wrote: »

A lot don't and won't, parkrun/parkwalk panders to the lazy who need a social outlet for their once a week shuffle.

Runs that already by design kept a record of who took part.

There are a couple here and there run for profit by companies. Granted they do manage to ensure participants have all registered unlike parkrun.

Parkrun is probably the best health initiative of the past 10 years. It is truly a wonderful concept. It is deeply treasured. Your harsh and inaccurate words won't stop the return of parkrun. It caters for the top athletes to people like my 86 year old Dad who still parkruns every week.

rovers_runner · 11-09-2020 9:12am

i008787 wrote: »

Parkrun is probably the best health initiative of the past 10 years. It is truly a wonderful concept. It is deeply treasured. Your harsh and inaccurate words won't stop the return of parkrun. It caters for the top athletes to people like my 86 year old Dad who still parkruns every week.

Name another sporting event or organization that takes pride in regression of
participants performance.
Surely those who started many years ago would be improving now, decreasing the average finish time?
Where is the promotion of improvement in fitness or times, there is none.
Everyone is a winner, medals for all, coffee and cake etc.

https://blog.parkrun.com/ie/2019/10/02/a-look-back-at-15-years-of-parkrun/

Average finish times

In 2005, the average finish time for completing a parkrun was 22:17. In 2018, it was 32:29.

SnappyDresser · 11-09-2020 9:19am

rovers_runner wrote: »

Name another sporting event or organization that takes pride in regression of
participants performance.
Surely those who started many years ago would be improving now, decreasing the average finish time?
Where is the promotion of improvement in fitness or times, there is none.
Everyone is a winner, medals for all, coffee and cake etc.

https://blog.parkrun.com/ie/2019/10/02/a-look-back-at-15-years-of-parkrun/

Average finish times

In 2005, the average finish time for completing a parkrun was 22:17. In 2018, it was 32:29.

I do Parkrun for myself and try to give it 100% everytime I go out. However its the social and community aspect right across the country that made it truly special and getting people who would not do exercise to go out and try and get fit while not worrying too much about the competitive aspect. If you are competitive then of course clubs are there for that but for the vast majority joining a club is met with an "Meh, not for me" and this is fair enough, that is where Parkrun fills a niche. Because the numbers exploded it attracted those who just want to go out and as you say Shuffle around. Take my Dad. Has 8 national titles in 8 different decades(yes you read that right) and loves the Parkrun concept as there is age category records on different courses to be had

The Black Oil · 11-09-2020 9:21am

Oh, not this again.

robinph · 11-09-2020 9:29am

rovers_runner wrote: »

Name another sporting event or organization that takes pride in regression of
participants performance.
Surely those who started many years ago would be improving now, decreasing the average finish time?
Where is the promotion of improvement in fitness or times, there is none.
Everyone is a winner, medals for all, coffee and cake etc.

https://blog.parkrun.com/ie/2019/10/02/a-look-back-at-15-years-of-parkrun/

Average finish times

In 2005, the average finish time for completing a parkrun was 22:17. In 2018, it was 32:29.

You have totally missed the point of their pride in the average times getting slower. It is admittedly deliberately worded like that so that you think it's an odd statement for them to make, but it is absolutely nothing to do with an individual getting slower. As you well know it is all about the number of people getting larger, and the range of abilities of those people getting wider.

An individual getting faster is something good, which they celebrate. More of the population taking part is way better though.

Insect Overlord · 11-09-2020 9:32am

rovers_runner wrote: »

Name another sporting event or organization that takes pride in regression of
participants performance.

Wow. Congratulations on spectacularly missing the point. :pac: :pac: :pac:

rovers_runner · 11-09-2020 9:36am

robinph wrote: »

You have totally missed the point of their pride in the average times getting slower. It is admittedly deliberately worded like that so that you think it's an odd statement for them to make, but it is absolutely nothing to do with an individual getting slower. As you well know it is all about the number of people getting larger, and the range of abilities of those people getting wider.

An individual getting faster is something good, which they celebrate. More of the population taking part is way better though.

I think you are missing the point that parkrun has reached a point over the years where there are far more people walking than running, and it's no longer parkrun, rather "parkwalk/run/whatever suits".
With an average time of 32 mins + where does that leave the higher range of times, 40+ mins, now if someone is taking 40+ mins to cover 5k they aren't running.

This is acceptable to the organizers as their main concern is growth and popularity rather than people actually improving.

Parkrun..

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