British to Renege of NI Protocol?

We'll do ****in' nothin....

Mac1978 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/brexit-coveney-warning-over-reported-uk-legislation-plan-1.4348153

I think they're right to call for calm.

But at the same time, if the British government do this to the Irish nation, how do we respond?

I would argue that this would be the most serious breach of trust between the two nations in more than a century. While we must be careful not to do anything that might result in violence, surely we couldn't take this lying down? Are they trying to provoke us? Do they want a return to the bad old days? Are the croppies expected to lie down again?

If they do this, and the Irish government doesn't respond, extremists might fill the vacuum. That's why a response is essential. Should the British ambassador be expelled? British goods boycotted?

This is a report about the UK possibly breaking an agreement in relation to trade related rules. Which would be a bad thing if it happened but this could merely be a kite flying exercise during trade negotiations.

But your response is completely over the top, invoking croppies and ambassador expulsions and other nonsense. The correct response to trade disagreements involves trade measures not talk of war. Hopefully more balanced people are making decisions on our behalf.

Mac1978 wrote: »

I don't think I mentioned war. In fact, I think I specifically said that we should try to avoid violence.

Whether or not these are 'trade disagreements' depends on your perspective. They might also be considered diplomatic disagreements, particularly if they involve the British repudiating an international agreement signed with a union of 27 other nations. Their repudiation of that treaty would necessitate the imposition of a border on this island, after the British had assured all of us that there would be no such border.

So, while you may think my response is OTT, I wonder if the majority of Irish people would agree with you? Irish people north of the border are entitled to fair play. The British government must honour any and all agreements made to ensure such fair play. And if/when they do not honour those agreements (to be fair, something they haven't done with an independent Ireland before), surely we must respond? I suspect that any other nation would.

Yes the language of your first post reeked of that of republican head bangers and I am glad to see that you have now dialled it down.

In relation to borders we must also remember that our own government have not been completely honest with the people. In the event of a hard Brexit it has always been the case that the Irish government will simply have to introduce border checks in order to protect the Single Market and they have been incredibly evasive on this point to date.

Mac1978 wrote: »

I don't believe I've dialled anything down. And, f you look back through my comparatively few posts on this forum, you'll see that I am about as far from a 'republican head banger' as one could be.

The Irish government have been evasive on the border question. That's true. But the British government have not been in the least bit evasive. They have stated again and again, that there will be no border in Ireland. And they have signed up to a protocol that gave legal footing to that gaurantee.

I believe that, if they do decide to renege on that, it absolutely would be the greatest breach of trust that indepedent Ireland has ever endured at the hands of another nation. And that isn't OTT rhetoric - it's fact. Can you think of any other occasion in our history when another nation has torn up a treaty it signed with us? That kind of insult demands appropriate action.

I accept that the nature of that action is debatable. And I think we both agree that it should not be violent. But for me, a slap in face like that, is not adequately answered by trade restrictions determined by the EU. As an independent nation, that has just had another independent nation repudiate an agreement that we made in good faith, we should respond with very strong action.

You have a remarkably black and white view of our relations with the UK when in reality the situation requires many shades of grey. We need cool heads in negotiations not people who regard negotiating ploys as insults and slaps in the face.

If you studied history and even the present you would understand that the greatest real danger to our country came from Germany in World War II and from the USSR more recently. On both occasions we were protected by the Allies and NATO of which the UK was, and is, an important member. Eaten bread is soon forgotten though and most people totally overlook the big picture on areas like this. Even right up to the present day when Russia sends warplanes on exploratory flights around the Irish west coast who do you think scrambles planes to intercept? Yes those bad people in the UK you are so keen to get into a diplomatic row with.

Even from a trading point of view talking about boycotting UK products is very dangerous territory as we are still heavily reliant on exports to the UK in areas like agriculture and food processing where many jobs would be lost if we escalate to a trade war with tariffs and boycotts.

It has also emerged that this proposed tinkering with the NI protocol part of the WA has been raised by the UK government with the Irish government since the early summer so its all just a part of their manoeuvering and negotiating from a weak position in these talks. Lets just keep calm, keep our eye on our overall balance of interests and let the trade talks continue without raising the temperature with talk of insults.

Mac1978 wrote: »

I would argue that this would be the most serious breach of trust between the two nations in more than a century.

They were shooting Irish people dead on our streets only a few decades ago. They were setting off bombs, murdering innocent Irish people and partook in a sectarian campaign of violence and terror for 3 decades.

I think they may have breached our trust during this time.

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

We'll do ****in' nothin....

Our govt will do nothing.

The Irish paramilitaries are another matter.

Calm down, calm down

Tinytemper wrote: »

They were shooting Irish people dead on our streets only a few decades ago. They were setting off bombs, murdering innocent Irish people and partook in a sectarian campaign of violence and terror for 3 decades.

I think they may have breached our trust during this time.

A pretty accurate description of the activities of the PIRA.

Boris is playing with bad cards and his bluff has now been called by the Americans. Boris is out of his depth, a lot of Conservatives are beginning to realise it, they want Jeremy back at prime ministers question time.

I saw a copy of the Irish Daily Mail today, giving some coverage to the Irish point of view. I would love to know what the UK edition is saying.

BRITS OUT!!!!