How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

glack · 06-09-2020 01:55PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Well, she's not wrong though. In the greater context of this country and the situation we're in, her personal decisions and actions aside which I can understand colour your opinion, her question is valid and echo'd by parents all over the country- and there should be a better solution and choice in place. This one parents personal failings doesn't change facts that there should be a remote learning plan in place which covers 1. vulnerable students and family 2. gives parents choice over their family's health in a global pandemic 3. would reduce class sizes which is badly needed 4. promotes continued learning in event of student or teacher illness/ need to quarantine.
For example I have cousins in the US and in one state the school year has started fully online for the first term. The other has a blended learning option which they can choose to go all in, all at home, or part time in school/home. This has given parents great choices and autonomy over their needs and also reduces class sizes in school massively. Funding was put towards chrome books and wifi hotspots loaned out where needed. Win win. I'll say it again wtf is our problem with a lack of innovation.

We are kind of in a no win situation here. Schools are independently run by boards of management with each school making its own decisions and don’t benefit from the collective resources of school districts etc. So our directives are always country wide or no information at all. Like in 2010 I think every school was closed for snow days but hundreds of schools had no snow at all so we’re closed for no reason etc. Schools and districts in the States also seem to have more freedom in how they spend their budget whereas our budget falls into different categories. So for example, you could have a school with €15,000 in the bank for IT equipment (and possibly already be very well equipped in this area) but no money to pay for heating. The IT money cannot be spent on anything else.

Your post is reasonable but we don’t have the leadership required to make it happen and schools are not allowed to make those arrangements on a local level.

Jim Root · 06-09-2020 02:33PM

glack wrote: »

Some thoughts from a teacher in a disadvantaged primary school after our first week:

1 - schools MUST stay open. Children have forgotten how to read, have forgotten how to add and in many cases (EAL students) have forgotten how to speak English. The children in my class are also horrendously unfit - clearly have spent very little time being physically active. But they are so happy to be back.

2 - Our school has put significant measures in place (lots of hand washing and sanitising, staggered starts, separate yards etc) but inside the classrooms social distancing is impossible. Pods and bubbles are just spin! Also impossible for staff to maintain distance from children and actually do their job.

3 - Schools have been horrendously let down by the department. Each school is left on their own to manage this incredibly difficult situation. We didn’t even get the promised cleaning and sanitising supplies. Thankfully we were able to source our own to have in time for opening.

4 - staff are definitely being put into risky situations. No way around it. To those of us who are high risk there is literally nothing being done to protect us. We are to wear masks when with 2m of our students. But that protects the children from us and not us from the children.

5 - Everyone is talking about what happens when there is an outbreak. But what I’m also hugely surprised there is so little talk of the impact of false alarms due to other illnesses. children getting sick isn’t the issue-staff being sick is. This week alone 3 teachers had to isolate in my school, 2 because their children had COVID symptoms and were told to isolate pending test results, the third had symptoms themselves. All were false alarms- head colds are common this time of year. In the first week of school subs are always plentiful so these absences didn’t really have much impact. But in a months time it will be impossible to find people to cover these gaps. Children with SEN will be significantly impacted as special ed teachers will have the be brought into classrooms to cover. Children being off for false alarms doesn’t pose this same impact.

6 - schools should have online learning systems ready to go. I mean, it seems inevitable that almost every school will have to partially close at some point. We need to be ready so that a repeat of the madness in March doesn’t happen.

Balanced post, thanks for the insight. Number 6 is galling for sure and not in any way a teachers fault.

Will Yam · 06-09-2020 04:24PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

As an SEN teacher , I certainly wouldn’t like a live class feed being broadcast to others . And as pointed out , if the family decided to make a later return from holiday, they need to take responsibility.

Even children who are high risk aren’t being allocated tuition online by the DES , holiday makers would be low down on the list .

Is there any reason why online tuition isn’t being provided by DES?

It wouldn’t be ideal, but if there was a virtual classroom for main subjects that any student could log into if they couldn’t attend for a day, or a week, or whatever, would it not be considerably better than just nothing?

Smacruairi · 06-09-2020 04:29PM

Will Yam wrote: »

Is there any reason why online tuition isn’t being provided by DES?

It wouldn’t be ideal, but if there was a virtual classroom for main subjects that any student could log into if they couldn’t attend for a day, or a week, or whatever, would it not be considerably better than just nothing?

We asked for it back in April. Govt refused for reasons. Besides, it's hard enough to cater for the unique needs of 30 lads at a time, let alone 3000,but I agree, at least it would be something. But when you have Madigan blatantly lying saying that there are extra supports in place for very high risk kids (spoiler, there are not), I'm surprised people don't think the online model is ready to go.

Lillyfae · 06-09-2020 05:20PM

Jim Root wrote: »

Balanced post, thanks for the insight. Number 6 is galling for sure and not in any way a teachers fault.

Although imo point 1 is the most galling.

Ll31 · 06-09-2020 05:35PM

Originally Posted by Jim Root View Post
Balanced post, thanks for the insight. Number 6 is galling for sure and not in any way a teachers fault.
Although imo point 1 is the most galling.

No 1 , ie children forgetting how to read etc may be most galling. But has every school got an online schooling plan in place now? And if not- why not?

Because if as seems likely most schools will have some classes suspended , then the complete nothingness that was primary online education for a lot of children back in March to June, will most likely happen again and have the same results.

wirelessdude01 · 06-09-2020 05:38PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Although imo point 1 is the most galling.

In your opinion, which bit of number 1 is the most galling? There is a lot in it.

Will Yam · 06-09-2020 06:09PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

We asked for it back in April. Govt refused for reasons. Besides, it's hard enough to cater for the unique needs of 30 lads at a time, let alone 3000,but I agree, at least it would be something. But when you have Madigan blatantly lying saying that there are extra supports in place for very high risk kids (spoiler, there are not), I'm surprised people don't think the online model is ready to go.

I accept that a “generic” class is worse than ideal. But nothing is worse than less ideal. It would have the advantage of at least keeping kids in touch.

Any idea of reasons for refusal?

I’m asking because I’m aware of professional courses that are now delivered on line, and done so very successfully. Not perfect but pretty good.

Blondini · 06-09-2020 06:15PM

Will Yam wrote: »

I accept that a “generic” class is worse than ideal. But nothing is worse than less ideal. It would have the advantage of at least keeping kids in touch.

I agree with you. There was 5 months to put plans in place.

This would have had to come from the top.

Lillyfae · 06-09-2020 06:17PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

In your opinion, which bit of number 1 is the most galling? There is a lot in it.

I think since you spend so much time bemoaning spoiled brat parents you mustn’t spend much time with children who are marginalized by drug addicted, chronically ill etc etc parents. These are the children who have been at the forefront of my mind since day one. The ones who are only visible because they are by law obliged to go to a government run facility every day. Often late, hungry and unkempt. The ones who would struggle massively to even learn to speak before they get to school going age because nobody is there to teach them.

wirelessdude01 · 06-09-2020 06:20PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

I think since you spend so much time bemoaning spoiled brat parents you mustn’t spend much time with children who are marginalized by drug addicted, chronically ill etc etc parents. These are the children who have been at the forefront of my mind since day one. The ones who are only visible because they are by law obliged to go to a government run facility every day. Often late, hungry and unkempt. The ones who would struggle massively to even learn to speak before they get to school going age because nobody is there to teach them.

Why the need for the dig?

In my current school we wouldn't have drug issues(that I'm aware of), we would have quite a few single parents who have severely reduced financial means now. These would be alongside the afore mentioned 'spoiled brats'.

I've worked in schools before where kids would turn up to school with biscuits as food for the day, where the kids would have to get themselves up every day and get themselves ready and into school, where parents would turn up to collect kids clearly under the influence of something.

Lillyfae · 06-09-2020 06:36PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Why the need for the dig?

In my current school we wouldn't have drug issues(that I'm aware of), we would have quite a few single parents who have severely reduced financial means now. These would be alongside the afore mentioned 'spoiled brats'.

I've worked in schools before where kids would turn up to school with biscuits as food for the day, where the kids would have to get themselves up every day and get themselves ready and into school, where parents would turn up to collect kids clearly under the influence of something.

No dig at all, it’s just something I can’t believe I would have to justify finding more worrying than any of the other points.

Spanish Eyes · 06-09-2020 06:40PM

Parents seem to be the problem in many cases now.

They have two choices, kids back or home school. Can be done.

wirelessdude01 · 06-09-2020 06:43PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

No dig at all, it’s just something I can’t believe I would have to justify finding more worrying than any of the other points.

1 - schools MUST stay open. Children have forgotten how to read, have forgotten how to add and in many cases (EAL students) have forgotten how to speak English. The children in my class are also horrendously unfit - clearly have spent very little time being physically active. But they are so happy to be back.

That was point 1.

My question to you was that seeing as point 1 has a lot in it

A. Reading
B. Addition
C. Language
D. Fitness

Which element of the above you find most galling. No where did I ask you to justify anything.

Talk about over reacting.

jrosen · 06-09-2020 06:45PM

Has the dept given any guidance on what schools have to do when a child is not coming to school?

byhookorbycrook · 06-09-2020 06:50PM

jrosen wrote: »

Has the dept given any guidance on what schools have to do when a child is not coming to school?

Unless they are very high risk , the DES isn’t making any provision at all .

Smacruairi · 06-09-2020 06:50PM

jrosen wrote: »

Has the dept given any guidance on what schools have to do when a child is not coming to school?

Very little. If they are very high risk, the SEN teacher will liaise with them... But they already have their own sen kids,thus why we have been bemoaning the lack of a plan for weeks.

Furthermore, at secondary level, we are all niche teachers, you can't have an SEN teacher or SNA try to cover accounting to French. It's little more than supplying handouts and checking in for morale. Again, the DES made zero attempt at this.

wirelessdude01 · 06-09-2020 06:50PM

jrosen wrote: »

Has the dept given any guidance on what schools have to do when a child is not coming to school?

Schools aren't meant to do anything. Unless they are 'very high risk' then they are meant to be in school. Provision only made for that category and it has to come from within the existing school staff, namely SET.

Lillyfae · 06-09-2020 06:52PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Talk about over reacting.

I won’t rise to your provocation, you should be capable of understanding what some children go through far more than I.

wirelessdude01 · 06-09-2020 06:54PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

I won’t rise to your provocation, you should be capable of understanding what some children go through far more than I.

Once again you are over reacting. I asked a simple question as I was interested.

You are very much playing the man and not the ball.

Lillyfae · 06-09-2020 06:55PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Once again you are over reacting. I asked a simple question as I was interested.

You are very much playing the man and not the ball.

Oh, another GAA analogy, what a surprise!

wirelessdude01 · 06-09-2020 06:56PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Oh, another GAA analogy, what a surprise!

What is your problem? Seriously I asked a question, you took it up wrong, I explained what I meant and you are still railing against me.

khalessi · 06-09-2020 06:57PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

Very little. If they are very high risk, the SEN teacher will liaise with them... But they already have their own sen kids,thus why we have been bemoaning the lack of a plan for weeks.

Furthermore, at secondary level, we are all niche teachers, you can't have an SEN teacher or SNA try to cover accounting to French. It's little more than supplying handouts and checking in for morale. Again, the DES made zero attempt at this.

This is what I am trying to figure, how is an SEN supposed to manage their own students, and liase with class teacher and student. From primary pov, I have 30 SEN children and with the restrictions re groups, bubbles and pods I am overran as it is.

wirelessdude01 · 06-09-2020 07:03PM

khalessi wrote: »

This is what I am trying to figure, how is an SEN supposed to manage their own students, and liase with class teacher and student. From primary pov, I have 30 SEN children and with the restrictions re groups, bubbles and pods I am overran as it is.

As for what happens when SET teachers have to cover classes due to unavailability of subs I can see the winter period being a little bit messy.

irishblessing · 06-09-2020 07:03PM

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/ireland-faces-10000-coronavirus-cases-a-day-by-christmas-without-changes-expert-warns/ar-BB18K7ql?li=BBr5KbJ

Speaking to the Irish Sunday Mirror Prof Killeen said: “I would disagree with the Government – we have been in a second wave since the end of June, it’s just a slow wave.

“And because it is slow we are not reacting to it the way we should.

“Our cases are 10 times higher than they were two months ago.

“If you take that trajectory forward without any changes, that’s 1,000 cases a day in two months from now and 10,000 a day by Christmas.

“So if you do anything to accelerate that (bring back schools, etc) it speeds it up at a much faster speed than people would imagine.

“It’s not a question if we are approaching a second wave or not, we have been in it for two months. The tipping point was the end of June before we even got out of phase two.

“Even if you lean on the optimistic side it’s hard to see everything remaining open for very long.”

And he added that he doesn’t believe it needs to “be like this” and there are “solutions and ways out”.

Prof Killeen added: “All of Europe is going to discover sooner or later that it’s not what people imagined, that it’s just going to be constant chaos.

“We are going to find ourselves back to square one. It’s going to start with loads of regional lockdowns and then once you have too many it results in a national lockdown.

“We will find ourselves there sooner or later but sooner is a lot better. Every day we are losing is several days longer that it’s going to take at the other end.

“The surge of transmission among younger groups will get much bigger before we notice it spilling into the older age groups which means it’s going to take a long time to undo.”

wirelessdude01 · 06-09-2020 07:06PM

irishblessing wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/ireland-faces-10000-coronavirus-cases-a-day-by-christmas-without-changes-expert-warns/ar-BB18K7ql?li=BBr5KbJ

Speaking to the Irish Sunday Mirror Prof Killeen said: “I would disagree with the Government – we have been in a second wave since the end of June, it’s just a slow wave.

“And because it is slow we are not reacting to it the way we should.

“Our cases are 10 times higher than they were two months ago.

“If you take that trajectory forward without any changes, that’s 1,000 cases a day in two months from now and 10,000 a day by Christmas.

“So if you do anything to accelerate that (bring back schools, etc) it speeds it up at a much faster speed than people would imagine.

“It’s not a question if we are approaching a second wave or not, we have been in it for two months. The tipping point was the end of June before we even got out of phase two.

“Even if you lean on the optimistic side it’s hard to see everything remaining open for very long.”

And he added that he doesn’t believe it needs to “be like this” and there are “solutions and ways out”.

Prof Killeen added: “All of Europe is going to discover sooner or later that it’s not what people imagined, that it’s just going to be constant chaos.

“We are going to find ourselves back to square one. It’s going to start with loads of regional lockdowns and then once you have too many it results in a national lockdown.

“We will find ourselves there sooner or later but sooner is a lot better. Every day we are losing is several days longer that it’s going to take at the other end.

“The surge of transmission among younger groups will get much bigger before we notice it spilling into the older age groups which means it’s going to take a long time to undo.”

Whenever a media outlet, radio or TV program need to stir things up this lad is wheeled out. He came on Primetime one evening over the summer when I was at home and my dad just sighed.

Blondini · 06-09-2020 07:20PM

Latest count is 15 instances in schools in the Republic, all confirmed with copies of HSE letters on the FB page.

mirrorwall14 · 06-09-2020 07:24PM

Blondini wrote: »

Latest count is 15 instances in schools in the Republic, all confirmed with copies of HSE letters on the FB page.

What’s the name of the group?

wirelessdude01 · 06-09-2020 07:25PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

What’s the name of the group?

Alerting parents of outbreaks in schools

wirelessdude01 · 06-09-2020 07:27PM

Looking at the list. There are three in the same.l area. Two schools on the same grounds and one less than a kilometre away. Wonder are they connected?

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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