Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

screamer · 04-09-2020 08:18PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I've a 2,5,6 I'd be a little concerned the little princess hasn't had it.

Yep, even Covid aside, TB is one thing no one wants to get. But for sure, it’s not being vaccinated for anymore.
Here’s from the HSE
Sine April 2015, there has been no BCG vaccination programme and the HSE cannot recommence the BCG vaccination programme without instruction from the Department of Health.

Roger_007 · 04-09-2020 08:19PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's an interesting question... if the virus isn't weakening possibly some or any or none of the below:
Vitamin D levels are up

Better treatments available for hospitalised cases e.g. steroids

Nursing homes are better protected

Masks mean less viral load mean less severe exposure and symptoms

The first wave victims were especially vulnerable for reasons, above and beyond their age and pre-existing medical conditions, some genetic quirk or BCG vaccination or some as yet unknown factor

Alternatively the death rate in the early stages could have been due to inappropriate medication and unnecessary ventilation.
I know one woman who was hospitalised and she told me that they tried all sorts of different drugs. She left the hospital against medical advice because she reckoned they were doing her more harm than good. This woman is qualified nurse, although she hasn’t practised for a number of years. When they indicated that she might need to be ventilated she exercised her right to be discharged. She knew that ventilation kills many people.
She is absolutely fine now.

04-09-2020 08:22PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just a throw out here, if BCG vaccine only lasts for a certain time, I wonder why TB hasn't been rising here exponentially. Dunno, just wondered.

Because most were vaccinated, those that have it are not always contagious and when contagious people have to be in prolonged contact with them such as in the home, work or school.

screamer · 04-09-2020 08:23PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just a throw out here, if BCG vaccine only lasts for a certain time, I wonder why TB hasn't been rising here exponentially. Dunno, just wondered.

Twould be attributed to herd immunity, in that we get few cases and as so many people are vaccinated, the disease doesn’t have enough suitable hosts to infect and spread

odyssey06 · 04-09-2020 08:24PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just a throw out here, if BCG vaccine only lasts for a certain time, I wonder why TB hasn't been rising here exponentially. Dunno, just wondered.

According to Wikipedia:
Aout 90% of those infected with M. tuberculosis have asymptomatic, latent TB infections (sometimes called LTBI), with only a 10% lifetime chance that the latent infection will progress to overt, active tuberculous disease. In those with HIV, the risk of developing active TB increases to nearly 10% a year.
Smokers also seem to be at higher risk of developing an active infection.

Also the vaccine protection decreases after about 10 years but (my note) perhaps still affords some protection against an active infection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberculosis

Spanish Eyes · 04-09-2020 08:25PM

darjeeling wrote: »

The idea behind vaccinating people with BCG during the current pandemic is that vaccines may give a short term general boost to the innate immune system. This could last a few months from the time of vaccination.

The BCG vaccine, seeing as it's a bacterium, would not give adaptive (i.e. antibody, T cell) immunity to a coronavirus, let alone adaptive immunity persisting over decades from a childhood vaccination.

So does that mean that antibiotics work for TB if it is bacterial? Thinking Streptomycin etc. Vaccinations only work for viruses, or so I thought, so how could BCG possibly work for Covid? And also how did a vaccination of BCG work on a possible bacterial infection.

As you can see I am no immunologist or anything, just curious.

Back to the drawing board for me!

Purple Mountain · 04-09-2020 08:26PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Alternatively the death rate in the early stages could have been due to inappropriate medication and unnecessary ventilation.
I know one woman who was hospitalised and she told me that they tried all sorts of different drugs. She left the hospital against medical advice because she reckoned they were doing her more harm than good. This woman is qualified nurse, although she hasn’t practised for a number of years. When they indicated that she might need to be ventilated she exercised her right to be discharged. She knew that ventilation kills many people.
She is absolutely fine now.

I think I read somewhere that ventilation can literally blow up some people's lungs.
I think I'd look to try the steroid and anti viral route first if it was me.
But that's just my personal opinion.

odyssey06 · 04-09-2020 08:31PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So does that mean that antibiotics work for TB if it is bacterial? Thinking Streptomycin etc. Vaccinations only work for viruses, or so I thought, so how could BCG possibly work for Covid?
Back to the drawing board for me!

Yes antibiotics can work for TB but of course there is growing resistance.

And we have other bacterial vaccines, for example the pneumonia vaccine is targeted against the bacterial version.

If BCG works for COVID it must be by some indirect similarity.

Gruffalux · 04-09-2020 08:33PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In Spain’s first wave they first passed a seven sleazy average 5000 cases a day in mid March. 3 weeks later they were seeing a seven day average of 850 deaths. In the second wave they hit a seven day average of 5000 on August 12, and as of today have a seven day average of deaths at 50

The obvious answer is that in March - in the early days - testing was poor. Now testing everywhere is much more organised.

This idea that the virus is weakening is unproven. It would be easy for researchers to prove it.

When Spain was having multiple times more deaths than now they likely had about that multiple amount more of cases.

They have recorded 440,000 about. Seroprevalence research would show them at 2 million to 2,500,000 cases. Squeeze in 5 or 6 times more cases with a massive peak in your data around 3rd April - their worst day for deaths - and you would be looking at case numbers that makes more sense.

screamer · 04-09-2020 08:34PM

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I think I read somewhere that ventilation can literally blow up some people's lungs.
I think I'd look to try the steroid and anti viral route first if it was me.
But that's just my personal opinion.

Ventilation carries risks too, due to being basically paralysed whilst you’re on it. It’d be a last chance saloon for anyone, but if it’s the only chance they had, then I understand. However, looking at the demographics in Italy many people were ventilated when really they should have been given palliative care. It’s what happened here, and it’s horrific to think about it, but in hindsight I suppose that if the outcome will very likely not be good, maybe palliative care would have been better. The exhaustion and despair the healthcare workers had to go through was heart breaking, and you’d wonder were the right choices made???? Who knows, awful either way.

ExMachina1000 · 04-09-2020 08:34PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Just under 9k new cases in Spain today.
1700 in UK
84 k in India

10.5k cases in Spain today
1940 in the UK
87k in India.

Santy2015 · 04-09-2020 08:38PM

Well thank f**k for that!!
https://twitter.com/shanebeattynews/status/1301922230683742209?s=21

drunkmonkey · 04-09-2020 08:45PM

screamer wrote: »

Twould be attributed to herd immunity, in that we get few cases and as so many people are vaccinated, the disease doesn’t have enough suitable hosts to infect and spread

That's all well and good but if she wants to travel the world when she's older I'd be worried.

darjeeling · 04-09-2020 08:53PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So does that mean that antibiotics work for TB if it is bacterial? Thinking Streptomycin etc. Vaccinations only work for viruses, or so I thought, so how could BCG possibly work for Covid? And also how did a vaccination of BCG work on a possible bacterial infection.

As you can see I am no immunologist or anything, just curious.

Back to the drawing board for me!

There are vaccines against bacteria (e.g. tetanus, cholera - though I think that's not very effective) and viruses. They have antigens that your immune system recognises, so presenting the immune system with a non-pathogenic version in a vaccine can give you immunity.

BCG is a live attenuated strain of mycobacterium, which is a bacterium that infects immune system cells (macrophages) and hides there for decades. I don't know how treatable it is with antibiotics.

Because the vaccine is a live bacterium, it is likely to stimulate the innate immune system better than e.g. vaccines that just consist of a purified protein. That's why it's being considered as a stop-gap measure in the control of covid. Another suggested candidate for controlling covid is oral polio vaccine, which this time is a live* attenuated virus. Again,it wouldn't be intended to produce a specific antibody / T cell response against SARS-CoV-2, but to give a boost to innate immunity (referred to as 'trained immunity' in the literature)

*if viruses can actually be called 'living'

Strumms · 04-09-2020 09:12PM

MOR316 wrote: »

Fine...Call your own shots, I'm not arsed

Go to the car park, have a coffee, stalk a load of kids to see if they're within two metres of one another and report it on here if it makes you feel better.

I couldn't give a toss what you do

You give a toss enough to post on the subject and get all immature and emotive.

I’m not sure if your mammy made you go to school but the difference between sitting in a car, waiting for somebody and observing public life out of the window and stalking people is quite sizable... but seeing as its you, not surprising.

majcos · 04-09-2020 09:23PM

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

6,000 of the 10,500 are antibody tests. There are 4,500 new cases. Not the worst day, but going the wrong way.

A positive antibody test could also mean a new/active case. Depends what antibody they are testing for. Antibody positive may not necessarily refer to recovered cases.

Is it mentioned if those tests are IgM or IgG antibody tests? If IgM, those or some of those 6,000 could be new cases. According to American CDC, antibodies can be detectable in first week in some cases.

Santy2015 · 04-09-2020 09:23PM

Not a fan of Niall Boylan but I agree with him here. Who the hell did they poll?
https://twitter.com/niall_boylan/status/1301978468012486657?s=21

04-09-2020 09:26PM

Santy2015 wrote: »

Not a fan of Niall Boylan but I agree with him here. Who the hell did they poll?
https://twitter.com/niall_boylan/status/1301978468012486657?s=21

An awful lot of people want more restrictions, as long as they impact other people not them

SeaBreezes · 04-09-2020 09:28PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yes antibiotics can work for TB but of course there is growing resistance.

And we have other bacterial vaccines, for example the pneumonia vaccine is targeted against the bacterial version.

If BCG works for COVID it must be by some indirect similarity.

I was quite excited by the bradykinin storm discovery.
If verified it would mean:

1) They can avoid severe cases by damping down the bradykinin response vit D and (ironically zinc helps with that and hydrochloroqine in low doses with zinc will help dampen the bradykinin response)

2) It explains long term covid, the recovery time from the damage the storm has done (but mostly reversible)

3) The death rate has gone from 20% in jan to 3% in march to 1% now and with treatments targeted to preventing a strong immune response both cytokine and bradykinin i am quite sure the mortality will drop by another order of 10.

Must say Im really optimistic that we have this bug almost beaten.

odyssey06 · 04-09-2020 09:29PM

If they polled all the ministers to have served in this Cabinet the figures were be less favourable

majcos · 04-09-2020 09:47PM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

I was quite excited by the bradykinin storm discovery.
If verified it would mean:

1) They can avoid severe cases by damping down the bradykinin response vit D and (ironically zinc helps with that and hydrochloroqine in low doses with zinc will help dampen the bradykinin response)

2) It explains long term covid, the recovery time from the damage the storm has done (but mostly reversible)

3) The death rate has gone from 20% in jan to 3% in march to 1% now and with treatments targeted to preventing a strong immune response both cytokine and bradykinin i am quite sure the mortality will drop by another order of 10.

Must say Im really optimistic that we have this bug almost beaten.

There are currently two medications (lanadelumab and icatibant) that directly target the kinin system that are being trialled in patients with Covid.

Both are very expensive but icatibant became available in a generic version last year so is getting cheaper.

fritzelly · 04-09-2020 10:03PM

Santy2015 wrote: »

Not a fan of Niall Boylan but I agree with him here. Who the hell did they poll?
https://twitter.com/niall_boylan/status/1301978468012486657?s=21

We surveyed 100 people - and the 4 worst answers were...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XMW6Z_Oq38

Comments are pretty funny

Thought RTE were woke now - why are they not doing the poll on Twitter

drunkmonkey · 04-09-2020 10:11PM

Not one positive comment, our Trump moment can't be far away.

speckle · 04-09-2020 10:22PM

darjeeling wrote: »

There are vaccines against bacteria (e.g. tetanus, cholera - though I think that's not very effective) and viruses. They have antigens that your immune system recognises, so presenting the immune system with a non-pathogenic version in a vaccine can give you immunity.

BCG is a live attenuated strain of mycobacterium, which is a bacterium that infects immune system cells (macrophages) and hides there for decades. I don't know how treatable it is with antibiotics.

Because the vaccine is a live bacterium, it is likely to stimulate the innate immune system better than e.g. vaccines that just consist of a purified protein. That's why it's being considered as a stop-gap measure in the control of covid. Another suggested candidate for controlling covid is oral polio vaccine, which this time is a live* attenuated virus. Again,it wouldn't be intended to produce a specific antibody / T cell response against SARS-CoV-2, but to give a boost to innate immunity (referred to as 'trained immunity' in the literature)

*if viruses can actually be called 'living'

interesting I still have an innate immunity to TB 40+ years

ExMachina1000 · 04-09-2020 10:23PM

Santy2015 wrote: »

Well thank f**k for that!!
https://twitter.com/shanebeattynews/status/1301922230683742209?s=21

Ciara Kelly on first thing in the morning has ruined that breakfast programme. The only time of the day I would have listened to the radio. She would put you off your breakfast

What Username Guidelines · 04-09-2020 10:25PM

Hse report is out for today (and yesterday)

Now 47 in hospital, 7 in ICU. Heading into weekend so likely the number will climb. Beaumont which was empty of covid at one stage now he 13 patients. While it’s not climbing as fast, it’s certainly ticking up.

fritzelly · 04-09-2020 10:25PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Ciara Kelly on first thing in the morning has ruined that breakfast programme. The only time of the day I would have listened to the radio. She would put you off your breakfast

She was bad enough at lunchtime with her opinionated feminism

fritzelly · 04-09-2020 10:26PM

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Hse report is out for today (and yesterday)

Now 47 in hospital, 7 in ICU. Heading into weekend so likely the number will climb. Beaumont which was empty of covid at one stage now he 13 patients. While it’s not climbing as fast, it’s certainly ticking up.

Confirmed or suspected?

Kivaro · 04-09-2020 10:28PM

Santy2015 wrote: »

Not a fan of Niall Boylan but I agree with him here. Who the hell did they poll?
https://twitter.com/niall_boylan/status/1301978468012486657?s=21

RTE are the number one doom and gloom merchants in the country. It is in their best interests to keep Covid front and centre, with the more restrictions; the better for them.
I would not trust any polls provided by RTE, as they can easily be skewed by the phrasing of the questions/options e.g. would you prefer more restrictions or would you prefer to run the risk of dying?

Coincidentally, the Late Late Show has a scheduled interview by Ryan Tubridy tonight with NPHET's "acting" head and the boss of us all: Dr Ronan Glynn. Imagine that; 2 men who were made millionaires from Irish tax payers telling us (the plebs) that we need to suck up the most restrictive Covid measures in Europe.
They can go and fluck off.

speckle · 04-09-2020 10:29PM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

I was quite excited by the bradykinin storm discovery.
If verified it would mean:

1) They can avoid severe cases by damping down the bradykinin response vit D and (ironically zinc helps with that and hydrochloroqine in low doses with zinc will help dampen the bradykinin response)

2) It explains long term covid, the recovery time from the damage the storm has done (but mostly reversible)

3) The death rate has gone from 20% in jan to 3% in march to 1% now and with treatments targeted to preventing a strong immune response both cytokine and bradykinin i am quite sure the mortality will drop by another order of 10.

Must say Im really optimistic that we have this bug almost beaten.

Add in vit c for the ARDS....still cant hardly believe the research paper that everyone of its subjects had near zero levels but then again those cargo containers going to ground zero makes one think...