South Wexford line status

daniel_t1409 · 04-09-2020 06:50PM

Today, I went from Dublin to Wexford on the train, and it took almost an hour to get to Greystones, another hour or so to get to Gorey, and another 45 minutes or so to get to Wexford. It's ridiculous that they spend all this money on roads/motorways yet they can't run a train at a decent speed.

Del.Monte · 04-09-2020 07:10PM

daniel_t1409 wrote: »

Today, I went from Dublin to Wexford on the train, and it took almost an hour to get to Greystones, another hour or so to get to Gorey, and another 45 minutes or so to get to Wexford. It's ridiculous that they spend all this money on roads/motorways yet they can't run a train at a decent speed.

You've answered your own point there; money for roads and little or no money for rail outside the GDA. The years of penny pinching have reduced the rail system to an irrelevancy for most of the population.

man98 · 04-09-2020 07:59PM

IE 222 wrote: »

I cant see them pulling this one off. They'll no doubt try but I'd be surprised if it wasn't met with strong opposition. Wicklow is in desperate need of more trains.

Until we see what's to be included in the Dart South Coastal or whatever it's called it's hard to tell. IE where backing plans for a radical change and redevelopment of Connolly but seem to have now opted for minimal approach unless they plan to include the Connolly upgrades with the Northern upgrades at a later date to hide the costs. Either way each option doesn't cater for Rosslare when you look at the operational set up of the improvements as they want terminate Maynooth services on platform 7. There should be space to include a smaller (Rosslare is limited in train length) southern turn back in the new layout.

Even if you resolve the Bray head issue with Double tracking either side of the first portals to increase the number of services you are still stuck behind a stopping service so will make no odds really if on a IC or Dart.

The plan is to turn back some services at Dun Laoghaire. Good timetabling should allow a IC some free paths around DL services.

The best Rosslare will ever do is retain its current service level with likely longer journey times.

To see any increases in services a Wexford - Greystones shuttle is the only option really. The time it takes to get a set to do Greystones - Connolly - Greystones is longer than Greystones - Gorey - Greystones. A set running Wexford - Greystones - Wexford would offer an extra 4 return trips south of Greystones each day.

See I think with a bit of proper vision, any stations earmarked for opening on the DART (Shanganagh/ Woodbrook) should be made passing loops simply for flexibility, and that IÉ need to seriously consider a further loop somewhere south of Booterstown. If and when hybrid trains do get ordered, an hourly service service to Gorey should be at least considered, alternating between Intercity and extended Darts (subject to works at Rathdrum).

An idea which could be looked at would be extending the terminating platform at Pearse as a terminus for Intercity trains from Rosslare to relieve pressure on Connolly and the core of the network.

Rail travel from Wexford town to Dublin is fast becoming something of a joke when competing with the motorway on Wexford's door step and with Bus Éireann and Wexford Bus both offering affordable hourly clockface services to Dublin. As someone who had to travel for work from Wexford to a workplace adjacent to a dart station, not once did I take the train to get there. Taking whatever remaining intercity traffic off an Intercity service with plugs and tables for laptops and on to a dart would be a complete joke for regular travellers.

L1011 · 04-09-2020 09:25PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

Hardly the same thing having to change at Ballybrophy for Nenagh etc. off a Dublin/Cork train as Dublin/Cork passengers having to disembark at Ballybropy and join another train before proceeding to Cork.

You're not seriously comparing the Rosslare line to the Cork mainline are you?

The daily passenger numbers south of Wicklow would fit on a single Cork train. Add in Wicklow and Kilcoole and you'll get two, so a single round trip. A not insignificant percentage are actually using it between destinations south of Greystones anyway.

Its already a branch line in all but history.

Del.Monte · 04-09-2020 09:48PM

I think if the Dublin/Cork line was treated as badly as the DSER route it would be in tatters as well.

Trains limited to four carriages due to the platforms at Rathdrum.

Crawling along behind the DART in both directions.

Allowing trains to be used by commuters from Connolly and Tara Street in the Down direction and Bray in the Up direction.

Total lack of long promised Waiting facilities at Connolly on platform 5 instead of freezing and having to fight your waythrough hordes of commuters coming off the DART - the real "Inter-City" rail experience.

No marketing of the line; ever increasing fares and when there are special offers nobody is told; rubbish catering; noisy ICR tin cans...I could go on but what's the point.

L1011 · 04-09-2020 09:52PM

You're not addressing the issue, at all - you made a comical comparison to the Cork line and can't back it up.

Where and when were waiting facilities on P5 promised (and by who), exactly?

"allowing" the trains to be used by commuters assists in actually having the trains operate. It is not the position of a railway operator to provide you with a mobile ivory tower where you can avoid others

Are you willing to fund enhanced catering out of your own pocket? Because its not profitable and the state isn't going to subsidise it. The cart is what wins the tender as the best option.

What are you comparing the ICRs to, noise-wise? Locomotive operation is not coming back; and one of the two sets of locomotive hauled services in the country has a vastly inferior ride quality even if it might be a little quieter.

IE 222 · 05-09-2020 03:06AM

man98 wrote: »

See I think with a bit of proper vision, any stations earmarked for opening on the DART (Shanganagh/ Woodbrook) should be made passing loops simply for flexibility, and that IÉ need to seriously consider a further loop somewhere south of Booterstown. If and when hybrid trains do get ordered, an hourly service service to Gorey should be at least considered, alternating between Intercity and extended Darts (subject to works at Rathdrum).

An idea which could be looked at would be extending the terminating platform at Pearse as a terminus for Intercity trains from Rosslare to relieve pressure on Connolly and the core of the network.

Rail travel from Wexford town to Dublin is fast becoming something of a joke when competing with the motorway on Wexford's door step and with Bus Éireann and Wexford Bus both offering affordable hourly clockface services to Dublin. As someone who had to travel for work from Wexford to a workplace adjacent to a dart station, not once did I take the train to get there. Taking whatever remaining intercity traffic off an Intercity service with plugs and tables for laptops and on to a dart would be a complete joke for regular travellers.

Connolly is the least of the lines worries. It's getting around DART that will resolve most of the issues. Even with loops the max speed is 60 for Dart and 40 for everything else. They should be able to maintain 3 full IC eachway and a peak Gorey.

IE would need to commit 6 or 7 sets (which they don't have spare) to the line to run an hourly service to Gorey in it's current form.

I cant see the line ever beating the motorway even with overtaking and line speed increases as the motorway takes a far more direct route and avoids meandering around rivers and cliffs.

Unfortunately, I think it's a real case of, "if you can't beat them join them" at Greystones.

IE 222 · 05-09-2020 03:11AM

Del.Monte wrote: »

I think if the Dublin/Cork line was treated as badly as the DSER route it would be in tatters as well.

Trains limited to four carriages due to the platforms at Rathdrum.

Crawling along behind the DART in both directions.

Allowing trains to be used by commuters from Connolly and Tara Street in the Down direction and Bray in the Up direction.

Total lack of long promised Waiting facilities at Connolly on platform 5 instead of freezing and having to fight your waythrough hordes of commuters coming off the DART - the real "Inter-City" rail experience.

No marketing of the line; ever increasing fares and when there are special offers nobody is told; rubbish catering; noisy ICR tin cans...I could go on but what's the point.

Dropping Bray would be helpful. It would also allow a up train to pass before a departing Dart on the middle road.

end of the road · 05-09-2020 12:56PM

L1011 wrote: »

You're not seriously comparing the Rosslare line to the Cork mainline are you?

no he's comparing how things would work on the cork main line if passengers had to simply change trains part way through for the sake of changing trains, to what is going to happen on the rosslare long distance regional main line if the laughable nonsense that is proposed, gets forced upon the users.

L1011 wrote: »

Its already a branch line in all but history.

incorrect, it's not already a branch line either in all but history, all but name or all but fact.
it's a long distance regional main line.
the branch lines in ireland are the following, limerick to ballybroaphy via nenagh, mallow to tralee, howth to howth junction.

IE 222 wrote: »

Unfortunately, I think it's a real case of, "if you can't beat them join them" at Greystones.

you think wrong.

L1011 · 05-09-2020 01:17PM

end of the road wrote: »

incorrect, it's not already a branch line either in all but history, all but name or all but fact.
it's a long distance regional main line.
the branch lines in ireland are the following, limerick to ballybroaphy via nenagh, mallow to tralee, howth to howth junction.

In your pointless pedantry to try and force an outdated definition of "branch line" you left out multiple of them.

daniel_t1409 · 05-09-2020 01:27PM

Remember, this thread is about the south wexford line. Anyway, south east on track, who are campaigning to get the line reopened, have a meeting about the line in a few days time, more info on their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/367387502018/ . Hopefully people will listen and think twice before they tear up the track for a greenway.

end of the road · 05-09-2020 01:53PM

L1011 wrote: »

In your pointless pedantry to try and force an outdated definition of "branch line" you left out multiple of them.

there is no outdated definition of branch line, the definition is the same definition as when the railway was invented and is as modern today as back then.
the definition hasn't changed.
i left out no branch lines, lines that simply branch away from an arterial line like the dublin cork main inter city line for example aren't themselves branch lines even though they branch off.
all the rest of the lines are a mix of main inter city and long distance regional lines.

Working class heroes · 05-09-2020 03:23PM

end of the road wrote: »

there is no outdated definition of branch line, the definition is the same definition as when the railway was invented and is as modern today as back then.
the definition hasn't changed.
i left out no branch lines, lines that simply branch away from an arterial line like the dublin cork main inter city line for example aren't themselves branch lines even though they branch off.
all the rest of the lines are a mix of main inter city and long distance regional lines.

That’s some amount of contradictory nonsense.

Del.Monte · 05-09-2020 07:53PM

L1011 wrote: »

In your pointless pedantry to try and force an outdated definition of "branch line" you left out multiple of them.

It's you who is being the pedant - as usual - and you know what EOTR meant, so what if he left out a couple of branches.

As for my" comical comparison" it was you that started the comedy with your swipe at those of us who want lines reopened. - post 115 - "If changing trains is such a no-no, why do people keep suggest reopening branch lines?

Where and when were waiting facilities on P5 promised (and by who), exactly?

Dick Fearn in a letter to me in 2005/06 - can't put my hand on the relevant letter right now but if you doubt my correspondence I can post plenty of his other apologetic and evasive replies here. Including promises of how the 22000s would be carrying Fastrack and how their carryings of same had increased.

"allowing" the trains to be used by commuters assists in actually having the trains operate. It is not the position of a railway operator to provide you with a mobile ivory tower where you can avoid others

There you go again putting your 'clever' misinterpretation of what I said to suit your agenda., I want inter-city trains to be just that and allowing a situation where commuters sit on top of the long distance travellers, blocking the aisles, prevent the wonderful catering trolley from progessing through the train is not what the ridiculous generic advertising campaigns offer.

Are you willing to fund enhanced catering out of your own pocket? Because its not profitable and the state isn't going to subsidise it. The cart is what wins the tender as the best option.

How can you have enhanced catering on a poxy four coach train - even if it could be a money spinner there's no space to operate it?

What are you comparing the ICRs to, noise-wise? Locomotive operation is not coming back; and one of the two sets of locomotive hauled services in the country has a vastly inferior ride quality even if it might be a little quieter.

The ICRs are quieter than the 29000s but that's not saying much and I have no complaints about the ride quality of the Mk IVs - would that we had them on the Rosslare line. And, just blankly stating that loco haulage is not coming back is meaningless or are you the one that makes the decision.

end of the road · 05-09-2020 08:49PM

that reminds me, i forgot mannula to ballina.
anyway, back to the south wexford section of the rosslare limerick main line section of the ireland cross country railway corridor from rosslare to derry (when sligo to derry gets built and athenry to sligo gets reopened)

L1011 · 05-09-2020 08:54PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

As for my" comical comparison" it was you that started the comedy with your swipe at those of us who want lines reopened.

I'm sorry that you find the content of your own posts so offensive.

If you find the idea of passengers from a marginal line having to transfer to reach Dublin to be such an anathema, you cannot possibly support other marginal lines reopening without being a hypocrite. It is your own issue if you do not wish to accept your hypocrisy.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Dick Fearn in a letter to me in 2005/06 - can't put my hand on the relevant letter right now but if you doubt my correspondence I can post plenty of his other apologetic and evasive replies here. Including promises of how the 22000s would be carrying Fastrack and how their carryings of same had increased.

So someone that's long gone and half a generation ago. You know that means there is no actual extant promise, right?

Del.Monte wrote: »

There you go again putting your 'clever' misinterpretation of what I said to suit your agenda., I want inter-city trains to be just that and allowing a situation where commuters sit on top of the long distance travellers, blocking the aisles, prevent the wonderful catering trolley from progessing through the train is not what the ridiculous generic advertising campaigns offer.

You are not addressing the reality that express services would be completely financially unviable.

Del.Monte wrote: »

How can you have enhanced catering on a poxy four coach train - even if it could be a money spinner there's no space to operate it?

So what is your suggestion then? Real, practical and viable please.

Because if you haven't got one, complaining about the existing service is pointless.

Del.Monte wrote: »

The ICRs are quieter than the 29000s but that's not saying much and I have no complaints about the ride quality of the Mk IVs - would that we had them on the Rosslare line. And, just blankly stating that loco haulage is not coming back is meaningless or are you the one that makes the decision.

So you made a meaningless complaint, comparing something to nothing.

devnull · 05-09-2020 09:26PM

I think some of the posters on this thread think they are clever and they think that if they try and disguise their trolling a little bit and try and inflame situations in a thinly veiled way they will get away with it.

In addition nobody has the right to direct what someone can and cannot post apart from the moderators and the charter which is clearly listed at the root of this forum.

Let this be your final warning - improve your standard of posting or you will find yourself carded or on enforced leave from this forum.

- Moderator

IE 222 · 05-09-2020 09:59PM

end of the road wrote: »

you think wrong.

Would you really oppose extra services if it required changing trains.

I don't believe they'll get away with cutting them all but I could see a compromise been met to allow 2/3 full IC services each way and a peak Connolly - Gorey/Wexford with a Bi-hourly shuttle service running Greystones - Wexford throughout the day.

end of the road · 05-09-2020 10:08PM

IE 222 wrote: »

Would you really oppose extra services if it required changing trains.

I don't believe they'll get away with cutting them all but I could see a compromise been met to allow 2/3 full IC services each way and a peak Connolly - Gorey/Wexford with a Bi-hourly shuttle service running Greystones - Wexford throughout the day.

absolutely because i have enough experience of IE and it's horrific treatment of some passengers and lines to know this is just non arsed and agenda pushing nonsense.

IE 222 · 05-09-2020 10:18PM

end of the road wrote: »

absolutely because i know it's both non arsed nonsense and agenda pushing nonsense.

Well it wouldn't be based on a show of hands in the local town hall now. Presuming the public would be outraged enough they would be getting local politicians involved.

If your happy plodding along with the current service level fair enough but if getting to Wexford pre 10am or after 10pm meant jumping on a Dart to Greystones I wouldn't be turning my nose up to it.

end of the road · 05-09-2020 11:04PM

IE 222 wrote: »

Well it wouldn't be based on a show of hands in the local town hall now. Presuming the public would be outraged enough they would be getting local politicians involved.

If your happy plodding along with the current service level fair enough but if getting to Wexford pre 10am or after 10am meant jumping on a Dart to Greystones I wouldn't be turning my nose up to it.

and that's fine if you are happy with what are effectively more scraps from the table, the exact thing that area of the country has been getting for years, each to their own.
i am in no doubt better can be delivered, hence will support any campaign to deliver it.

Working class heroes · 05-09-2020 11:05PM

end of the road wrote: »

absolutely because i have enough experience of IE and it's horrific treatment of some passengers and lines to know this is just non arsed and agenda pushing nonsense.

What agenda?

Working class heroes · 05-09-2020 11:08PM

end of the road wrote: »

and that's fine if you are happy with crums, each to their own.

How would providing more options/more frequent service be “crumbs”?

no.8 · 05-09-2020 11:24PM

roundymac wrote:

Is it worth it, will we ever see passenger services run again? No is the answer, better off to use the money to keep services that people will use going. I know that won't sit well with some people but that's life I'm afraid.

Hmm... hard to say really. In general, we could have had excellent rail infrastructure in parts of this land / fantastic tourist attractions (Not wrt to the wexford south line but say the Cork west line or in Kerry). Short-sightedness. Both examples are worthless as it stands.

I would support greenways, or mainly safe segregated cycleways, but it doesn't always have to come at the cost of In some cases Greenways are possible without utilisation of old railway lines (competing with them), and can be provided for adjacent roadways or via blueways / cross-country / redesignating quiet 'L' roads.

IE 222 · 05-09-2020 11:35PM

end of the road wrote: »

and that's fine if you are happy with what are effectively more scraps from the table, the exact thing that area of the country has been getting for years, each to their own.
i am in no doubt better can be delivered, hence will support any campaign to deliver it.

But how can they offer anything more than what's been offered. It's not IE fault Dart is more demanding.

daniel_t1409 · 06-09-2020 07:47PM

Interesting article posted today: https://waterford-news.ie/2020/09/06/o-cathasaigh-re-opening-waterford-to-rosslare-rail-link-makes-sense/

IE 222 · 07-09-2020 10:49PM

daniel_t1409 wrote: »

Interesting article posted today: https://waterford-news.ie/2020/09/06/o-cathasaigh-re-opening-waterford-to-rosslare-rail-link-makes-sense/

What's the 5:30am - 8:55am train he is talking about.

tabbey · 08-09-2020 12:07AM

IE 222 wrote: »

What's the 5:30am - 8:55am train he is talking about.

Is it perhaps a bus?

IE 222 · 08-09-2020 12:20AM

tabbey wrote: »

Is it perhaps a bus?

Would the bus take 3.5 hours.

Probably is, it's just randomly mentioned when talking about wanting a 8.30am arrival. I thought he was refusing said service because it didn't arrive at 8.30am.

He seems to be throwing everything in there. What Waterford and Shannon airports adds to the need of service increases is beyond me.

If politicians focused on the real reasons for the need of increases they'd be taking more seriously. That kind of dribble discredits the real need he is seeking. Asking for a few extra services turns into sounding like he's looking for a €250 million investment to prepare for Brexit.

tabbey · 08-09-2020 12:39AM

tabbey wrote: »

Is it perhaps a bus?

Another possibility is that there is a train leaving Limerick at 0530 which stops in Kildare 0717 in time to connect with the first train from Dublin to Waterford, but this gets to Waterford much later than 0855.
We must not blame the deputy, it's possible that the news reporter misquoted him.

South Wexford line status

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