Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

South Wexford line status

  • 20-09-2017 06:19PM
    #1
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    What's the current status of the South Wexford line? Is it still open as an "engineering siding"?

    I see Wexford County Council have released a tender for a feasibility study of a Waterford to Rosslare greenway.

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=118779


«13456

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    An Engineers Siding as far as I know. The Greenway nonsense will never happen on the South Wexford line.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Whats an engineers siding?

    The greenway might not be a bad idea?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Is it worth it, will we ever see passenger services run again? No is the answer, better off to use the money to keep services that people will use going. I know that won't sit well with some people but that's life I'm afraid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    roundymac wrote: »
    Is it worth it, will we ever see passenger services run again? No is the answer, better off to use the money to keep services that people will use going.

    the same will be said at the next closure and the next and the next. "better off to use the money to keep services that people will use going" dispite the fact they may actually be used, more then 1 or 2 that are still open.
    roundymac wrote: »
    I know that won't sit well with some people but that's life I'm afraid.

    it's not life when we know the reasons these services aren't being removed is nothing to do with usership.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,825 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Part of the line is still an active railway while the rest is "closed to traffic" however there are 2-4 movements per year over the line.

    The green way will never happen along the route.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Part of the line is still an active railway while the rest is "closed to traffic" however there are 2-4 movements per year over the line.

    The green way will never happen along the route.

    A greenway will never happen because IR run the butter-box every 6 months?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,825 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    rebel456 wrote: »
    A greenway will never happen because IR run the butter-box every 6 months?

    IE only own 50% and couldn't sell it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    IE only own 50% and couldn't sell it.

    That does little to prevent a Greenway. Irish Rail can allow a Greenway through an agreement, requiring the land to be available for future rail use. Another wasted state asset brought back to life and providing an amenity for tourists to come visit for.

    Otherwise the land will eventually fall into decay (the stations, etc. along the ling already have). Given the state of the bridge IR will quickly 'suspend' their butterbox excursions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    rebel456 wrote: »
    That does little to prevent a Greenway. Irish Rail can allow a Greenway through an agreement, requiring the land to be available for future rail use. Another wasted state asset brought back to life and providing an amenity for tourists to come visit for.

    Otherwise the land will eventually fall into decay (the stations, etc. along the ling already have). Given the state of the bridge IR will quickly 'suspend' their butterbox excursions.

    Campile_20100717_004_CC_JA.jpg

    The only station along the line with any buildings is Wellington Bridge and that is intact. Look at this photo of Campile on the 'scorched earth' retreat from Moscow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Campile_20100717_004_CC_JA.jpg

    The only station along the line with any buildings is Wellington Bridge and that is intact. Look at this photo of Campile on the 'scorched earth' retreat from Moscow.

    And think of the many tourists who could be cycling past this station on the Waterford-Wexford stretch of their Irish cycling holiday, instead of a train every six months to keep the weeds down.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,825 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    rebel456 wrote: »
    That does little to prevent a Greenway. Irish Rail can allow a Greenway through an agreement, requiring the land to be available for future rail use. Another wasted state asset brought back to life and providing an amenity for tourists to come visit for.

    Otherwise the land will eventually fall into decay (the stations, etc. along the ling already have). Given the state of the bridge IR will quickly 'suspend' their butterbox excursions.

    IE cannot make such an agreement as they have no overall control of the line and IE also won't allow a greenway go ahead unless they can offload the line which they can't because they are responsible for the upkeep of it.

    IE have gotten rid of other lines because they no longer have to maintain them (Bridges etc) that is no possible here. The NTA have obliged IE to maintain the line and they are (just about). It's not a state asset as 50% is privately owned.

    There is no benefit to IE coming to an agreement for a greenway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    rebel456 wrote: »
    A greenway will never happen because IR run the butter-box every 6 months?


    no . it's because there is no demand for such a greenway in that area. i know the area well and a greenway would be nothing more then a vanity project.
    rebel456 wrote: »
    That does little to prevent a Greenway. Irish Rail can allow a Greenway through an agreement, requiring the land to be available for future rail use. Another wasted state asset brought back to life and providing an amenity for tourists to come visit for.

    Otherwise the land will eventually fall into decay (the stations, etc. along the ling already have). Given the state of the bridge IR will quickly 'suspend' their butterbox excursions.

    the only station building is wellington bridge. IE will suspend the "butter box" runs eventually anyway most probably but for a greenway new-ross has the potential compared to this line.
    rebel456 wrote: »
    And think of the many tourists who could be cycling past this station on the Waterford-Wexford stretch of their Irish cycling holiday, instead of a train every six months to keep the weeds down.

    about 1 tourist.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    IE cannot make such an agreement as they have no overall control of the line and IE also won't allow a greenway go ahead unless they can offload the line which they can't because they are responsible for the upkeep of it.

    IE have gotten rid of other lines because they no longer have to maintain them (Bridges etc) that is no possible here. The NTA have obliged IE to maintain the line and they are (just about). It's not a state asset as 50% is privately owned.

    There is no benefit to IE coming to an agreement for a greenway.

    Nothing in what you say prevents a Greenway. Whomever is in control of the line, be it IR & the NTA (ultimately the Government) along with the other owner, can make an agreement for a Greenway with the proviso that it be returned to railway use should the need ever arise. It's not exactly an impossible scenario given there is no services that require the line's use (well most of it).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    no . it's because there is no demand for such a greenway in that area. i know the area well and a greenway would be nothing more then a vanity project.

    about 1 tourist.

    And I presume you think there would be more than '1 tourist' should the rail-line be reopened?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,825 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    rebel456 wrote: »
    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    IE cannot make such an agreement as they have no overall control of the line and IE also won't allow a greenway go ahead unless they can offload the line which they can't because they are responsible for the upkeep of it.

    IE have gotten rid of other lines because they no longer have to maintain them (Bridges etc) that is no possible here. The NTA have obliged IE to maintain the line and they are (just about). It's not a state asset as 50% is privately owned.

    There is no benefit to IE coming to an agreement for a greenway.

    Nothing in what you say prevents a Greenway. Whomever is in control of the line, be it IR & the NTA (ultimately the Government) along with the other owner, can make an agreement for a Greenway with the proviso that it be returned to railway use should the need ever arise. It's not exactly an impossible scenario given there is no services that require the line's use (well most of it).

    Both sides could maje ab agreement but it wont happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Both sides could maje ab agreement but it wont happen.

    Why so? What makes it impossible?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,825 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    rebel456 wrote: »
    Why so? What makes it impossible?

    It's much more hassle than it's worth.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Would the Barrow Bridge be an issue for a greenway?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Karsini wrote: »
    Would the Barrow Bridge be an issue for a greenway?

    most probably. assuming the line was turned into a greenway, maintenence of the bridge would likely change over to the council, who have no money.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    Karsini wrote: »
    Would the Barrow Bridge be an issue for a greenway?

    Well at present it is either a Greenway or eventual abandonment...
    In 2014 the Barrow Bridge was listed by an An Taisce in its "Buildings at Risk Register". An Taisce records "The structure does not appear to be maintained and there are obvious signs of deterioration."

    A Greenway would encourage the bridge to be maintained & converted for pedestrian/cycle use. That funding would have to be secured from central Gov / the EU, etc. It would in effect save the bridge. If the cost for conversion & overhaul is too prohibitive to start off the Greenway could commence from Campile with access from Waterford via the ferry at Passage East. Not ideal as you want as much of the Greenway to be off-road as possible for recreational cyclists, but certainly not a barrier.
    most probably. assuming the line was turned into a greenway, maintenence of the bridge would likely change over to the council, who have no money.

    And the bridge is being fantastically maintained at present...


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    rebel456 wrote: »
    Well at present it is either a Greenway or eventual abandonment...



    A Greenway would encourage the bridge to be maintained & converted for pedestrian/cycle use. That funding would have to be secured from central Gov / the EU, etc. It would in effect save the bridge. If the cost for conversion & overhaul is too prohibitive to start off the Greenway could commence from Campile with access from Waterford via the ferry at Passage East. Not ideal as you want as much of the Greenway to be off-road as possible for recreational cyclists, but certainly not a barrier.



    And the bridge is being fantastically maintained at present...


    no . but how do you expect a council with no money to do it. IE are supposibly obligated to maintain it as they are supposed to be maintaining the line as part of the agreement to suspend services. why that isn't being enforced i do not know but that's the job of our all singing all dancing transport quango.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    no . but how do you expect a council with no money to do it. IE are supposibly obligated to maintain it as they are supposed to be maintaining the line as part of the agreement to suspend services. why that isn't being enforced i do not know but that's the job of our all singing all dancing transport quango.

    It's not being enforced as IR need to spend their funds on the railway network that actually carries passengers. Not infrastructure that carries the weed spraying train once a year.

    In terms of who'll maintain the bridge if a Greenway was installed. That's up to whoever will fund the Greenway in the first place, Dept of Transport most likely via a grant. In reality it's the only hope for the bridge given IR are unlikely to invest any of their funding to the South Wexford Line.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    rebel456 wrote: »
    It's not being enforced as IR need to spend their funds on the railway network that actually carries passengers. Not infrastructure that carries the weed spraying train once a year.

    In terms of who'll maintain the bridge if a Greenway was installed. That's up to whoever will fund the Greenway in the first place, Dept of Transport most likely via a grant. In reality it's the only hope for the bridge given IR are unlikely to invest any of their funding to the South Wexford Line.


    no it's not being enforced because enforcement seems to be quite lax in terms of the rail operations in general (lots of canceled services on the lj to waterford still)
    if they are obligated to maintain it as part of the agreement to suspend services then it should be enforced no excuses. the rest of the network is irrelevant in this context.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭man98


    There is a much bigger question about the viability about allowing the public on to what is currently the longest (or perhaps second longest) bridge in the country which also has little protection for people on the bridge. There's unbelievable gusts up the Barrow channel, which I wouldn't expect you to know. As well as that, it also has to be opened several times a week to accommodate cargo ships going up to New Ross. On this scale it really isn't ideal to have an unsupervised and unprotected crossing for walkers and cyclists. As a local, it makes very little sense to go anywhere near this bridge with a greenway. As above, this is a glamour project which is doomed to fail, only after it bankrupts the council.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,265 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Karsini wrote: »
    Would the Barrow Bridge be an issue for a greenway?

    The bridge is a massive barrier to a greenway as it needs to be able to open and close to allow access to New Ross port.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    man98 wrote: »
    There is a much bigger question about the viability about allowing the public on to what is currently the longest (or perhaps second longest) bridge in the country which also has little protection for people on the bridge. There's unbelievable gusts up the Barrow channel, which I wouldn't expect you to know. As well as that, it also has to be opened several times a week to accommodate cargo ships going up to New Ross. On this scale it really isn't ideal to have an unsupervised and unprotected crossing for walkers and cyclists. As a local, it makes very little sense to go anywhere near this bridge with a greenway. As above, this is a glamour project which is doomed to fail, only after it bankrupts the council.

    The current Wateford Greenway, Mulingar-Athlone, Westport-Achill... have these 'glamour projects' bankrupted their councils?

    How about we make use of this underused asset in South Wexford and make it destination for those wanting a cycling holiday, and be a place for locals to walk/cycle/run too. We could even envisage a Cork-Wexford Greeenway, mostly off road, a fantastic amenity to offer those in South Munster/Leinster.

    The chance of trains returning, bar the inspection car, is remote. The line needed beat to stay alive and that has long since finished with little chance of returning.

    The Barrow Bridge will rot away unfortunately, unless it is re-purposed. The Greenway can run from Campile with connection to Waterford via the Passage East Ferry, it's not dependent on the bridge. If the bridge is/can be suitably converted for use by pedestrians & cyclists then it would actually save it from eventual abandonment - would take Gov/EU level investment to do that, but again, Greenway not dependent on a bridge, there is many more miles of near-abandoned trackbed to lay a Greenway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    The bridge is a massive barrier to a greenway as it needs to be able to open and close to allow access to New Ross port.

    Go around it, use the Passage East Ferry. I drove to Mullingar to use the Greenway there, no reason folks won't be doing the same by driving to Campile if they only wanted to cycle/walk off road. Folks can of course cycle to Campile too via the road network.

    Eventually it would be nice to see the bridge re-purposed - little else will save it. But it certainly is not a barrier, Greenways are dependent on decent countryside stretches of off-road pathways, something the South Wexford track has plenty of.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    rebel456 wrote: »
    The current Wateford Greenway, Mulingar-Athlone, Westport-Achill... have these 'glamour projects' bankrupted their councils?

    irrelevant and doesn't change the facts and the reality of the infrastructure and route of the south wexford link of the irish cross country rail corridor, which has no potential for a greenway.
    rebel456 wrote: »
    How about we make use of this underused asset in South Wexford and make it destination for those wanting a cycling holiday, and be a place for locals to walk/cycle/run too. We could even envisage a Cork-Wexford Greeenway, mostly off road, a fantastic amenity to offer those in South Munster/Leinster.

    there are plenty of areas for locals to walk/cycle/run that are off road in this area. there is no demand for a greenway on this corridor and there is nothing to attract tourists to this area via a greenway. the route of the former line to new-ross is the alinement with the potential for a greenway.
    rebel456 wrote: »
    The chance of trains returning, bar the inspection car, is remote.

    doesn't matter, a greenway is not viable here.
    rebel456 wrote: »
    The line needed beat to stay alive and that has long since finished with little chance of returning.

    the line survived 4/5 years after beat went, so that was only an excuse. the beat traffic was a huge boost, but the passenger service was used.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    irrelevant and doesn't change the facts and the reality of the infrastructure and route of the south wexford link of the irish cross country rail corridor, which has no potential for a greenway.

    there are plenty of areas for locals to walk/cycle/run that are off road in this area. there is no demand for a greenway on this corridor and there is nothing to attract tourists to this area via a greenway. the route of the former line to new-ross is the alinement with the potential for a greenway

    doesn't matter, a greenway is not viable here.

    Who are you to say that there isn't demand or this resource won't be used? Can you point me to a Greenway in Ireland that isn't used? I have pointed out some of the Greenway projects in Ireland, all of which are well used. The Mullingar to Athlone stretch doesn't have a fraction of the scenery the South Wexford would have, and it's mostly flat & straight. Linking up Wexford & Waterford, eventually to Cork via a Greenway would be a tremendous asset to attract tourists but give locals an amenity too - and given the experience in other areas, they do use it. Try one sometime!
    the line survived 4/5 years after beat went, so that was only an excuse. the beat traffic was a huge boost, but the passenger service was used.

    The line survived as it was 2006, we could afford to splash the cash back then. When the recession hit some sense was found. The line has a population per KM in the single figures - it would struggle to maintain a mini-bus service, never mind a train line and associated costs.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    rebel456 wrote: »
    Who are you to say that there isn't demand or this resource won't be used? Can you point me to a Greenway in Ireland that isn't used? I have pointed out some of the Greenway projects in Ireland, all of which are well used. The Mullingar to Athlone stretch doesn't have a fraction of the scenery the South Wexford would have, and it's mostly flat & straight. Linking up Wexford & Waterford, eventually to Cork via a Greenway would be a tremendous asset to attract tourists but give locals an amenity too - and given the experience in other areas, they do use it. Try one sometime!



    The line survived as it was 2006, we could afford to splash the cash back then. When the recession hit some sense was found. The line has a population per KM in the single figures - it would struggle to maintain a mini-bus service, never mind a train line and associated costs.


    the new-ross railway is the only former rail route with potential for a greenway in county wexford. the south wexford line survived after 2006 as the so called service was still used, as even in the state it was it was more competitive then the road option. sense was not found when this service was removed against the wishes of the users and others. it has a population to support it, it not being able to attract users to a low quality service such as a minny bus service which is never going to attract anyone anyway isn't relevant.

    once again, the new-ross railway is the only line that has potential for a greenway in county wexford, and the council have better things to spend the money of the people on.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



Advertisement