2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Gerry Hatrick · 04-09-2020 11:29AM

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Yes, Joe Biden. He's not great by any stretch but he's clearly the better option to Trump who has also destroyed the economy at this point.

The virus is Trump's fault?

Okay.

Gerry Hatrick · 04-09-2020 11:30AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Biden is a twat, he is just not as much of a twat as Trump.

I beg to differ but respect your opinion.

Penn · 04-09-2020 11:31AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

The virus is Trump's fault?

Okay.

Trump's mishandling of the US response to the virus is Trump's fault, and that has also exacerbated the effect on the economy.

randd1 · 04-09-2020 11:32AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Whatever ever industry will benefit as a result of the trade tariffs.

As I've stated already some collateral damage is inevitable in any trade war.

What industry will benefit from the tariff's? Apart from the steel industry, none have, as the cost of American goods that rely on steel has gone up.

And if the collateral damage means collapsing the economy, or leaving massive amounts of people unemployed?

salmocab · 04-09-2020 11:32AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

The virus is Trump's fault?

Okay.

Nobody has claimed it was his fault but the handling of it is. He’s the leader. It’s amazing that he claims everything good as his but as soon as something bad happens it’s nothing to do with him.

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 11:33AM

mcmoustache wrote: »

Do you think that your strategy for informing yourself might be related to the fact that this was news for you?

I can't read up on everything as there isn't enough hours in the day so I try to keep myself as best informed as I can.

Leroy42 · 04-09-2020 11:35AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Difficult to answer that really America has been reliant on China for many years so presumably it will take a few years for America to become a lot less reliant on China.

Reliant is a weird choice of word. The US, almost uniquely, is not reliant on any other country really. It has almost everything it needs within its own borders. Raw materials, finance, knowledge, workforce etc.

So unlike, say Ireland, it is not reliant on countries for oil, or coal, or steel etc.

It could, potentially, be completely self-reliant. It chooses not to be, for a multitude of reason, one of which is that prices from other countries to produce products are lower than in the US.

That will take more a simple trade war to remedy. That will require everyone in society to sign up to higher prices, lower wages, longer working hours, less benefits, less choice etc etc.

namloc1980 · 04-09-2020 11:38AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

No jobs sound good to people right now and even the most rabid Biden fans on here have to admit Trump pre the virus brought record numbers of employment to Americans.

The democrats have made a huge error putting forward someone so connected to the Obama era and he will fail just like Clinton. Shame on the dems they should have known better.

Rabid Biden fans? The projection is unreal.

Trump brought no record numbers of employment to anyone. The positive employment trends started under Obama and continued under Trump until 22 million people became unemployed in the last few months.

Unemployment peaked at 10% across the the board in October 2009 after Obama took office. By the time he left office it was at 4.7% - a reduction of 5.3%. Under Trump it reached a low of 3.5% - a reduction of 1.2% under Trump. Today it currently stands at 10.2% - worse than the worst peak under Obama.

The best you can say is that Trump continued the reduction started and mostly done under Obama only to end up in a worse starting position than Obama. Giving Trump all the credit is very disingenuous.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE

Igotadose · 04-09-2020 11:39AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Hopefully they be able to get jobs in the industry where more jobs will be created.

What's the #IMPOTUS plan for that,?

Carfacemandog · 04-09-2020 11:40AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

The virus is Trump's fault?

Okay.

Dont you mean this 'hoax' is Trumps fault?

And yes, yes it is.

Leroy42 · 04-09-2020 11:40AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Rabid Biden fans? The projection is unreal.

Trump brought no record numbers of employment to anyone. The positive employment trends started under Obama continued under Trump until 22 million people became unemployed in the last few months.

Unemployment peaked at 10% across the the board in October 2009 after Obama took office. By the time he left office it was at 4.7% - a reduction of 5.3%. Under Trump it reached a low of 3.5% - a reduction of 1.2%> Today it currently stands at 10.2% - worse than the worst peak under Obama.

The best you can say is that Trump continued the reduction started and mostly done under Obama. Giving Trump all the credit is very disingenuous.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE

And one must remember that Trump gave out the biggest corporate tax cut in history, with one of the claims being that it would help allow companies to invest in jobs.

So it is not some miracle, these jobs have been paid for by way of a tax cut, and even after such a tax cut, the job numbers did not see any significant increase in rate

Igotadose · 04-09-2020 11:41AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

The virus is Trump's fault?

Okay.

Models this am showing over 400k deaths on the US by January. The US response is on Trump

Gerry Hatrick · 04-09-2020 11:45AM

salmocab wrote: »

Nobody has claimed it was his fault but the handling of it is. He’s the leader. It’s amazing that he claims everything good as his but as soon as something bad happens it’s nothing to do with him.

Deaths per million in the US aren't as bad as Spain, Sweden, Italy, Peru, UK etc...

But yeah it's all Trump's fault.

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 11:46AM

Igotadose wrote: »

What's the #IMPOTUS plan for that,?

I can't say with 100% certainty what his plan is but my best guess would be for him to continue to create more jobs and stimulate an economic recovery once the pandemic is over

Gerry Hatrick · 04-09-2020 11:47AM

Igotadose wrote: »

Models this am showing over 400k deaths on the US by January. The US response is on Trump

Projections. The death rate is what at the moment 190k?

salmocab · 04-09-2020 11:47AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Deaths per million in the US aren't as bad as Spain, Sweden, Italy, Peru, UK etc...

But yeah it's all Trump's fault.

So your defence is he’s not doing quite as bad as some other countries, namely the ones doing bad. That must be the stupidest defence I’ve ever read.

namloc1980 · 04-09-2020 11:49AM

So we've established the following:

- that the unemployment numbers under this president are much higher than those under Bush / Obama even at the height of the global economic crisis 2008-2011.
- the employment and job creation claimed by Trump was just a continuation of Obama's economic growth and job growth with most of the jobs created under Obama since the economic crisis.
- that Trump created less jobs in his best year than in each of the last 3 years under Obama.
- that the US trade deficit has in fact increased under Trump (hitting a 12 year high in June) and imports have also increased - a key promise of his first term was that the deficit would "go away".
- his tarriffs have increased the costs of goods for American consumers and business.

So much #winning!

WrenBoy · 04-09-2020 11:50AM

when Trump first Implemented Travel restrictions earlier in the pandemic didn't the Dems call him racist and tell people to go visit Chinatown or something like that ? I remember Pelosi did anyway.

Gerry Hatrick · 04-09-2020 11:50AM

salmocab wrote: »

So your defence is he’s not doing quite as bad as some other countries, namely the ones doing bad. That must be the stupidest defence I’ve ever read.

Where am i defending him? I'm pointing out facts.

Gerry Hatrick · 04-09-2020 11:52AM

WrenBoy wrote: »

when Trump first Implemented Travel restrictions earlier in the pandemic didn't the Dems call him racist and tell people to go visit Chinatown or something like that ? I remember Pelosi did anyway.

Pelosi actually did a tour of Chinatown, maskless of course

Trump isn't perfect by half but he's marginally the better candidate than Biden.

namloc1980 · 04-09-2020 11:53AM

WrenBoy wrote: »

when Trump first Implemented Travel restrictions earlier in the pandemic didn't the Dems call him racist and tell people to go visit Chinatown or something like that ? I remember Pelosi did anyway.

Proof?

You'll find that it is probably "Fake News"

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-claims-about-pelosi-and-chinatown/

salmocab · 04-09-2020 11:53AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Where am i defending him? I'm pointing out facts.

You were defending him you said the deaths weren’t as high as other countries and finished with but yeah it’s all Trumps fault. You can pretend that wasn’t a defence you can even pretend your not a Trump supporter for whatever reason of your own but no one here is buying it.

Gerry Hatrick · 04-09-2020 11:55AM

salmocab wrote: »

You were defending him you said the deaths weren’t as high as other countries and finished with but yeah it’s all Trumps fault. You can pretend that wasn’t a defence you can even pretend your not a Trump supporter for whatever reason of your own but no one here is buying it.

So we've established the deaths aren't as high as other countries then. Excellent.

namloc1980 · 04-09-2020 11:56AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Pelosi actually did a tour of Chinatown, maskless of course

Trump isn't perfect by half but he's marginally the better candidate than Biden.

This was on the 24th February - the number of Covid-19 cases in the USA on the 24th February was 53 in total. I'm curious why would she be wearing a mask at that time?

salmocab · 04-09-2020 11:58AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

So we've established the deaths aren't as high as other countries then. Excellent.

Yes we’ve established something that no one disputed

Timberrrrrrrr · 04-09-2020 11:58AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Only if the US is prepared to pay higher prices. The reason the US is so reliant on China is that China produces stuff cheaper than the US can.

Are people in the US ready to pay extra? Sure it would lead to more jobs etc, but that was always the case. Globalisation happened because companies wanted to make more profits, not because they had a liking for China.

Wher did Trump source the steel required to build Trump Tower? Where did he get his clothesline produced? China. He didn't do that because he hates America, he did it because it was cheaper.

So far from it all being China's fault, it is actually America's own fault. Eah and every person, to a larger or lessor degree, played their part in it.

Sure hasn't his own daughter got a few patents in China?

Timberrrrrrrr · 04-09-2020 11:59AM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

But Joe Biden.

is none of those.

mcmoustache · 04-09-2020 12:02PM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I can't read up on everything as there isn't enough hours in the day so I try to keep myself as best informed as I can.

You're not really though. The amount of actual information contained in those videos by the youtubers that you mentioned yesterday is shockingly low for their length. They can spend 30 minutes to an hour about a single and often silly event like some guy losing a job for saying "n*gg*r".

That 30 minutes could be better spent on some news sites which actually contain a summary of world events.

It's really not hard to be informed but you're actively sabotaging yourself and showing yourself up.

namloc1980 · 04-09-2020 12:04PM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

So we've established the deaths aren't as high as other countries then. Excellent.

Higher than most countries. Currently 10th in deaths per million. Crucially the trend line in the US is ever upwards unlike other countries like Spain and Italy who have got much better control of the virus.

Deaths per million in Italy at the start of July were 579, today it's 587 - a marginal increase of 1.4%.

Deaths per million in USA at the start of July were 400, today it's 576 - a 44% increase.

Quin_Dub · 04-09-2020 12:08PM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Deaths per million in the US aren't as bad as Spain, Sweden, Italy, Peru, UK etc...

But yeah it's all Trump's fault.

Ah the old - But other places are as bad /worse excuse.

Just because others made mistakes doesn't absolve him of his.

The "Deaths per Million" chart you reference , let's take a look at that shall we?

No one is saying that the other countries in that list did a perfect job .

Some , like Italy,Spain,Belgium and France were among the 1st places hit and they suffered through that early pain when people didn't really understand what was happening or how to mitigate.

Sweden and the UK tried the "Herd Immunity" route and suffered accordingly , although the UK changed tack eventually.

Have a close look at the 2nd Column - The one showing current "Daily Deaths".

Whilst all of the other countries ahead of the US (except Brazil) are showing that they have gotten the virus under control and are showing very very small death rates, the US is charging up that leader board at a rate of knots.

At current rates they'll overtake the UK in about 2 weeks and they'll top the charts around the end of November.

So yeah.. the current situation is absolutely Trumps fault.

2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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