2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

dwayneshintzy · 04-09-2020 10:24AM

Incidentally, I AM an American. Biden wasn't close to my first choice; Bernie Sanders had my vote, and I'd have been happy with Warren after him. I feel Biden is too much of a centrist who's happy to cede to Republicans, and is heavily influenced by corporate interests in many of his policy decisions. Fundamentally I believe he's a decent person though, and he seems willing to bring others into a potential administration who I would hope can influence things (Warren on the economy, for instance).

I've got problems with Biden definitely. In a two horse race though, they're nothing compared to the problems I have with Trump.

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 10:25AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Could you list out these things that he has done that are good?

African-American, Hispanic-American, and Asian-American unemployment achieved the lowest rate ever recorded prior to the pandemic.

namloc1980 · 04-09-2020 10:29AM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

at this point the rod might be more useful than Biden.

I don't think theres anyone here who genuinely believes Donald trump is the greatest president ever that you seem to think people fanboy him as,
but in my book he's certainly better than Joe Biden or Harris.

if the Dems had a decent offering the debate might be easier to make but at present its madness to suggest Biden is an actual strong contender on his own merit.

I don't think Donald trump is a brilliant president, but he's the president America deserves and I think he'll win again in a race where his opposition is a lacklustre offering.

I never said this. Why are you saying that?

I actually think Biden will win this. One of the big differences from 2016 is that there are relatively fewer undecideds in all the polls compared to this time around. There was an unknown factor with Trump the last time that middle ground people and independents leaned slightly to Trump plus a lot of people just didn't like Hillary Clinton as a person. Trump is very much a known factor now and the polarization of politics over there has seen most people already decided who they are voting for. Polls also show that Independents are more likely to vote for Biden than Trump this time around - in 2016 it was 50/50.

Biden is a boring candidate but a lot of people are tired of the 4 year continuing circus around Trump - boring sounds good to a lot of people in the middle right now.

https://morningconsult.com/2020-presidential-election-tracker/

namloc1980 · 04-09-2020 10:32AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

African-American, Hispanic-American, and Asian-American unemployment achieved the lowest rate ever recorded prior to the pandemic.

What specific policies of Trump's do you attribute this to? Any credit for Obama under whom all these trend lines of downwards unemployment actually started?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14000031

Gerry Hatrick · 04-09-2020 10:34AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I never said this. Why are you saying that?

I actually think Biden will win this. One of the big differences from 2016 is that there are relatively fewer undecideds in all the polls compared to this time around. There was an unknown factor with Trump the last time that middle ground people and independents leaned slightly to Trump plus a lot of people just didn't like Hillary Clinton as a person. Trump is very much a known factor now and the polarization of politics over there has seen most people already decided who they are voting for. Polls also show that Independents are more likely to vote for Biden than Trump this time around - in 2016 it was 50/50.

Biden is a boring candidate but a lot of people are tired of the 4 year continuing circus around Trump - boring sounds good to a lot of people in the middle right now.

https://morningconsult.com/2020-presidential-election-tracker/

No jobs sound good to people right now and even the most rabid Biden fans on here have to admit Trump pre the virus brought record numbers of employment to Americans.

The democrats have made a huge error putting forward someone so connected to the Obama era and he will fail just like Clinton. Shame on the dems they should have known better.

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 10:35AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

What specific policies of Trump's do you attribute this to? Any credit for Obama under whom all these trend lines of downwards unemployment actually started?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS14000031

His policy of creating more jobs.

Sure he got the ball rolling but Trump ensured that the downward trend continued by creating more jobs in the economy.

Gerry Hatrick · 04-09-2020 10:35AM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

at this point the rod might be more useful than Biden.

I don't think theres anyone here who genuinely believes Donald trump is the greatest president ever that you seem to think people fanboy him as,
but in my book he's certainly better than Joe Biden or Harris.

if the Dems had a decent offering the debate might be easier to make but at present its madness to suggest Biden is an actual strong contender on his own merit.

I don't think Donald trump is a brilliant president, but he's the president America deserves and I think he'll win again in a race where his opposition is a lacklustre offering.

The rod would field more questions that's for sure

randd1 · 04-09-2020 10:40AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

His policy of creating more jobs.

Sure he got the ball rolling but Trump ensured that the downward trend continued by creating more jobs in the economy.

How? What policies?

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 10:43AM

randd1 wrote: »

How? What policies?

His tariffs on imported steel helped create more American jobs in the steel industry.

Quin_Dub · 04-09-2020 10:44AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

No jobs sound good to people right now and even the most rabid Biden fans on here have to admit Trump pre the virus brought record numbers of employment to Americans.

The democrats have made a huge error putting forward someone so connected to the Obama era and he will fail just like Clinton. Shame on the dems they should have known better.

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

His policy of creating more jobs.

Sure he got the ball rolling but Trump ensured that the downward trend continued by creating more jobs in the economy.

He created less jobs than Obama did

It is true that some of the data points hits "all-time highs" because they were already close to those record levels when Trump took over. but in terms of rate of growth etc. Trumps economy is mediocre at best.

By every single metric, Trumps economy grew more slowly than Obamas (or indeed any other President except GWB) in the last 40 years.

Like everything in Trumps life , any claims of success are illusory and overblown.

namloc1980 · 04-09-2020 10:50AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

His policy of creating more jobs.

Sure he got the ball rolling but Trump ensured that the downward trend continued by creating more jobs in the economy.

Just to set it out here - African-American unemployment peaked at 19.3% in March 2010 during the global financial crisis. It had reduced to 7.2% in January 2017 when Obama left office which was a 12.1% reduction. Under Trump it reduced to 5.1% just before pandemic hit - a 2.1% reduction since he took office.

I think it's fair to say that Obama got more than the ball rolling. 85% of the reduction since the peak in 2010 happened under Obama.

Penn · 04-09-2020 10:57AM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't think Donald trump is a brilliant president, but he's the president America deserves

Sadly, I think you might be right. However, I see that as a bad thing rather than good.

Igotadose · 04-09-2020 11:01AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

African-American, Hispanic-American, and Asian-American unemployment achieved the lowest rate ever recorded prior to the pandemic.

And where are they today?

randd1 · 04-09-2020 11:01AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

His tariffs on imported steel helped create more American jobs in the steel industry.

And hurt ten times the numbers who required the cheap steel for their business, especially those who's exports relied on cheap steel. It also pretty much made steel based American goods dearer abroad.

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 11:03AM

Igotadose wrote: »

And where are they today?

Obviously way up due to the global pandemic.

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 11:04AM

randd1 wrote: »

And hurt ten times the numbers who required the cheap steel for their business, especially those who's exports relied on cheap steel. It also pretty much made steel based American goods dearer abroad.

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

Leroy42 · 04-09-2020 11:10AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

Only if the US is prepared to pay higher prices. The reason the US is so reliant on China is that China produces stuff cheaper than the US can.

Are people in the US ready to pay extra? Sure it would lead to more jobs etc, but that was always the case. Globalisation happened because companies wanted to make more profits, not because they had a liking for China.

Wher did Trump source the steel required to build Trump Tower? Where did he get his clothesline produced? China. He didn't do that because he hates America, he did it because it was cheaper.

So far from it all being China's fault, it is actually America's own fault. Eah and every person, to a larger or lessor degree, played their part in it.

mcmoustache · 04-09-2020 11:12AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

Em, you're aware that the trade deficit to China is higher now than at any time since 2008?

Or did Ben Shapiro forget to mention it?

Or do you just think that buying more from China decreases reliance on China?

randd1 · 04-09-2020 11:12AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

But what happens when all those people lose their jobs?

Quin_Dub · 04-09-2020 11:12AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

How long is this "long run"??

How long will they continue to have to spend Billions of dollars trying to keep American farmers afloat while Trump rattles his sabre with China?

How many farms will simply disappear never to return, during this period before these "in the long run" benefits eventually accrue?

Eric Cartman · 04-09-2020 11:12AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yeah, America deserves a misogynistic, racist, grifter who openly insults the memories of their fallen soldiers and openly lies about it.

But Joe Biden.

Carfacemandog · 04-09-2020 11:17AM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

But Joe Biden.

Yes, Joe Biden. He's not great by any stretch but he's clearly the better option to Trump who has also destroyed the economy at this point.

namloc1980 · 04-09-2020 11:19AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

There's going to be some collateral damage in any trade war but it will be worth it in the long run because it will make the American economy less reliant on China.

The trade deficit hit a 12 year high in June. Under Trump imports actually increased significantly than under Obama and the trade deficit has widened. "America First"

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/imports

US IMPORTS
united-states-imports.png?s=tbimtot&v=202009032300V20200716&d1=20100907

united-states-imports.png?s=tbimtot&v=202009032300V20200716&d1=20100907

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 11:23AM

mcmoustache wrote: »

Em, you're aware that the trade deficit to China is higher now than at any time since 2008?

Or did Ben Shapiro forget to mention it?

Or do you just think that buying more from China decreases reliance on China?

News to me, hopefully the trade tariffs will help reduce the trade deficit.

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 11:24AM

randd1 wrote: »

But what happens when all those people lose their jobs?

Hopefully they be able to get jobs in the industry where more jobs will be created.

04-09-2020 11:24AM

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

They are. As are Biden's fan boys and girls.

Biden is a twat, he is just not as much of a twat as Trump.

randd1 · 04-09-2020 11:25AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Hopefully they be able to get jobs in the industry where more jobs will be created.

What industry?

And why didn't he protect their jobs in the first place?

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 11:25AM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

How long is this "long run"??

How long will they continue to have to spend Billions of dollars trying to keep American farmers afloat while Trump rattles his sabre with China?

How many farms will simply disappear never to return, during this period before these "in the long run" benefits eventually accrue?

Difficult to answer that really America has been reliant on China for many years so presumably it will take a few years for America to become a lot less reliant on China.

LessOutragePlz · 04-09-2020 11:27AM

randd1 wrote: »

What industry?

And why didn't he protect their jobs in the first place?

Whatever ever industry will benefit as a result of the trade tariffs.

As I've stated already some collateral damage is inevitable in any trade war.

mcmoustache · 04-09-2020 11:27AM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

News to me, hopefully the trade tariffs will help reduce the trade deficit.

Do you think that your strategy for informing yourself might be related to the fact that this was news for you?

2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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