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Interest in purchasing first boat - advice welcome

  • 31-08-2020 4:55pm
    #1
    Flynnigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭


    Hi,

    Myself and my hubbie are considering buying a family recreational boat and are at the very early stages of investigation.... it could remain just a dream!!

    Firstly, we're very water safety aware. He is a qualified lifeguard and keen surfer so very familiar with tides, water/weather conditions etc yet still we'd plan to do a introductory course.

    We're living very close to the sea in Galway so would mainly be interested in something for wakeboarding/watersports and exploring the coastline on day trips. We're not interested in sleeping overnight in it. We would need something that would take 2 adults and 3 kids min but cost is obviously the deciding factor as to whether we'd get one or not. We'd be launching it ourselves for every trip and keeping it at the back of the house the rest of the time. I'm also aware we'd need life jackets, radio etc.

    Ball-park, what kinda money would you expect to pay second hand (boat, trailer etc). Also, what annual maintenance costs could you expect, license, insurance etc. I know fuel consumption would be totally dependant on use, cruising the coastline v flaking around with the wakeboard.

    All feedback would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks.


Comments

  • #2
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,177 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Something like this maybe? https://www.donedeal.ie/boats-for-sale/5-20-rib/25673227?campaign=14

    I find the selection on done deal a bit poor at the minute. Even that one seems a bit too dear for what it is


  • #3
    fergal.b
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    Ideally if you are looking to do water sports you will be looking for something with a V8 and something you can put a tower on, there are boats made for this most are shaft driven and have the propeller under the boat instead of sticking out the back making them safer for water sports so have a look at "Mastercraft , ski Nautique, Maxum, Bayliner, searay and some other bowriders, with kids it might also be worth looking at something with a small cabin to get them out of the weather if it turns bad. You will probably be looking to spend anything from 5000 up and you want to spend it on the best engine possible so when you go to look at a boat be sure to bring someone that knows engines, boats and trailers you can pick for next to nothing the money is in the engine. If you are spending money you can't afford to loose get a survey done on the boat.







    .


  • #4
    Widdensushi
    Registered Users Posts: 5,151 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    70hp in the add would not be enough for Alot of water sports, recreational boats are a thing that the price has shot up due to covid, it might be easier to buy one in the next month as the weather gets worse. What is your budget? Allow plenty in reserve as if it goes wrong they can be expensive to maintain.


  • #5
    Flynnigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Flynnigan


    Thanks so much..... I'm only starting my research so all the above is great feedback. Budget is about 7/8k all in. I really like the idea of having a small cabin if the budget would allow as the kids are still small.
    Is done deal the best site to keep an eye on or are the other sites, companies to contact?
    What about other associated expenses, insurance, registration, servicing.... can this be expensive?
    Thanks again for all the info.


  • #6
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Flynnigan wrote: »
    Thanks so much..... I'm only starting my research so all the above is great feedback. Budget is about 7/8k all in. I really like the idea of having a small cabin if the budget would allow as the kids are still small.
    Is done deal the best site to keep an eye on or are the other sites, companies to contact?
    What about other associated expenses, insurance, registration, servicing.... can this be expensive?
    Thanks again for all the info.

    I recently started boating with a 6m+ RIB.

    After the initial boat cost the rest was
    -Marine survey €250
    -Insurance €250
    -VHF radio €180
    -Repairs to trailer €700 (as important as the boat as it will wreck the boat if suspension/rollers not working)
    -Automatic life jacket €75 each
    -Waders for launching €100
    -Marina €800 per year

    What I've left to do
    -Power boat course probably €300
    -VHF radio course probably €200

    My engine is a 2 stroke outboard which is incredibly inefficient, but it is more reliable, simpler and much cheaper to service than a 4 stroke which is more fuel efficient, but is much more expensive to service.

    The engine is critical, and more than 70HP is needed to water sport with 2 adults and 3 kids

    Before parting money, pay for a marine assessment, mine was €250, and don't ever ever ever buy a boat without bringing it on a sea trial. (Trust me :pac:)


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  • #7
    fergal.b
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    Keeping the family comfortable and happy is very important if they are not you will get to use the boat a lot less so going somewhere to play on the phone/iPad can make all the difference and the price of a cabin is not much more. Apollo duck would probably be a better site to look for a boat "less messing about" but a better option would be to go to a dealer where you might get a warranty or go around some of the marinas and have a look at their for sale page. what ever boat you buy be prepared to have a full service done this can include an impeller change and on a outdrive a full bellows kit as-well as your filters so quite expensive, after a while you might learn to do a lot of jobs yourself. Also check the towing capability of your car you may be restricted to 750kg and that may put out of reach of a boat with a V8.







    .


  • #8
    AndyBoBandy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    I don't really know a whole lot about power boats, but YachtMarket is a good site with many boats for sale, both sail & power.. there are good filter's to select what exactly you are looking for

    This one is a boat only, and looks suitable for a small family as it has a small cabin. You'd obviously need to buy an engine separately...
    https://www.theyachtmarket.com/en/boat-for-sale/1870626/?searchid=22978247&page=1

    This one comes with trailer and 125HP outboard;
    https://www.theyachtmarket.com/en/boat-for-sale/1853932/?searchid=22978247&page=1

    This has a Mercruiser 3L inboard (I've no idea what that means in HP);
    https://www.theyachtmarket.com/en/boat-for-sale/1794534/?searchid=22978247&page=1


  • #9
    Flynnigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Flynnigan


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I recently started boating with a 6m+ RIB.

    After the initial boat cost the rest was
    -Marine survey €250
    -Insurance €250
    -VHF radio €180
    -Repairs to trailer €700 (as important as the boat as it will wreck the boat if suspension/rollers not working)
    -Automatic life jacket €75 each
    -Waders for launching €100
    -Marina €800 per year

    What I've left to do
    -Power boat course probably €300
    -VHF radio course probably €200

    My engine is a 2 stroke outboard which is incredibly inefficient, but it is more reliable, simpler and much cheaper to service than a 4 stroke which is more fuel efficient, but is much more expensive to service.

    The engine is critical, and more than 70HP is needed to water sport with 2 adults and 3 kids

    Before parting money, pay for a marine assessment, mine was €250, and don't ever ever ever buy a boat without bringing it on a sea trial. (Trust me :pac:)

    Hi Fintan, how are you enjoying boating so far? Why type of Rib did you get and what are you using it for? The costs you've listed are pretty much what I expected although the insurance is a bit higher than I thought.
    Yes, sea trial is defo a necessity. Where did you buy your Rib?
    thanks


  • #10
    Flynnigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Flynnigan


    fergal.b wrote: »
    Keeping the family comfortable and happy is very important if they are not you will get to use the boat a lot less so going somewhere to play on the phone/iPad can make all the difference and the price of a cabin is not much more. Apollo duck would probably be a better site to look for a boat "less messing about" but a better option would be to go to a dealer where you might get a warranty or go around some of the marinas and have a look at their for sale page. what ever boat you buy be prepared to have a full service done this can include an impeller change and on a outdrive a full bellows kit as-well as your filters so quite expensive, after a while you might learn to do a lot of jobs yourself. Also check the towing capability of your car you may be restricted to 750kg and that may put out of reach of a boat with a V8.

    .
    Yes, fully agree... if the crazies are happy, we're happier! Its making more sense to have some sort of a small cabin.
    I'm expecting the initial outlays (servicing, sea trial, insurance etc) to be pricey but hoping that we'll get up to speed with some of the easier jobs in time (fingers crossed).
    Yup, looks like I'm restricted to 750kg unbraked so that question is answered!
    Any recommendations on dealers around Galway/west or are the bigger ones mainly on the East/south of the country?
    Thanks again for the feedback


  • #11
    Flynnigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Flynnigan


    AndyBoBandy wrote: »
    I don't really know a whole lot about power boats, but is a good site with many boats for sale, both sail & power.. there are good filter's to select what exactly you are looking for

    This one is a boat only, and looks suitable for a small family as it has a small cabin. You'd obviously need to buy an engine separately...


    This one comes with trailer and 125HP outboard;


    This has a Mercruiser 3L inboard (I've no idea what that means in HP);

    Great thanks. I hadn't come across this site previously so will check it out.
    So is it silly of my to just focus on power boats or should I keep an open mind?
    I suppose I'm thinking about using the boat for watersports for ourselves and the kids as they get older but maybe I should be thinking more about using a boat to explore more of the lovely coastline around Galway/Clare.
    Thanks


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  • #12
    AndyBoBandy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    After the initial boat cost the rest was
    -Marine survey €250
    -Insurance €250
    -VHF radio €180
    -Repairs to trailer €700 (as important as the boat as it will wreck the boat if suspension/rollers not working)
    -Automatic life jacket €75 each
    -Waders for launching €100
    -Marina €800 per year

    What I've left to do
    -Power boat course probably €300
    -VHF radio course probably €200

    Just to add to all the above, I'd consider picking up a PLB (Personal Locator Beacon), especially if you are going out with family, and don't have an alternative means of propulsion (aux engine).

    a VHF radio will of course be great for contacting the Coast Guard in the event of an emergency, but you wouldn't want to be relying on a phone GPS to provide them with accurate positional information,(of course a phone will give a fairly accurate GPS position, but I still wouldn't be relying on one in an emergency).
    You might easily see where you are on a nice day and be able to relay that position to the Coast Guard, but you'd be surprised how quick the land can disappear behind rain and fog when out at sea...

    PLB's come in around €200 and are far smaller/cheaper that their bigger cousins EPIRB's

    https://marineparts.ie/safety/emergency-equipment/epirb-plb/ocean-signal-plb1-the-worlds-smallest-plb/


  • #13
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Flynnigan wrote: »
    Yup, looks like I'm restricted to 750kg unbraked so that question is answered!

    Note the unbraked, if the boat trailer has brakes you can tow significantly more, even on a B licence.


  • #14
    AndyBoBandy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Flynnigan wrote: »
    So is it silly of my to just focus on power boats or should I keep an open mind?
    I suppose I'm thinking about using the boat for watersports for ourselves and the kids as they get older but maybe I should be thinking more about using a boat to explore more of the lovely coastline around Galway/Clare.
    Thanks

    I think you should definitely try a few different options first before committing to 1 type of craft.

    Powerboats can be great for watersports, and getting places fast, but for me personally, the drone of the engine gets tiresome after a while, and the actual journey from a to b can be boring.

    Could you get down to a local club and try out sailing (as well as powerboating)? (I know, difficult in these times). Sailing for me is the journey to a destination, as well as the destination itself. yes it's a little slower, but your always involved, and doing something. Then even further down the line you have club racing and teh fun that brings...


  • #15
    Flynnigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Flynnigan


    Widdensushi wrote: »
    70hp in the add would not be enough for Alot of water sports, recreational boats are a thing that the price has shot up due to covid, it might be easier to buy one in the next month as the weather gets worse. What is your budget? Allow plenty in reserve as if it goes wrong they can be expensive to maintain.

    What hp would I need for watersports?


  • #16
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    AndyBoBandy wrote: »
    Just to add to all the above, I'd consider picking up a PLB (Personal Locator Beacon), especially if you are going out with family, and don't have an alternative means of propulsion (aux engine).

    a VHF radio will of course be great for contacting the Coast Guard in the event of an emergency, but you wouldn't want to be relying on a phone GPS to provide them with accurate positional information,(of course a phone will give a fairly accurate GPS position, but I still wouldn't be relying on one in an emergency).
    You might easily see where you are on a nice day and be able to relay that position to the Coast Guard, but you'd be surprised how quick the land can disappear behind rain and fog when out at sea...

    PLB's come in around €200 and are far smaller/cheaper that their bigger cousins EPIRB's

    https://marineparts.ie/safety/emergency-equipment/epirb-plb/ocean-signal-plb1-the-worlds-smallest-plb/

    Andy, my VHF is a handheld ICOM which displays my GPS on the screen.

    It was my understanding that when I complete my VHF course, I will be given a code to input to my VHF which will allow the use of the distress button in an emergency, which will broadcast my position.

    I'm open to correction on that


  • #17
    AndyBoBandy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Andy, my VHF is a handheld ICOM which displays my GPS on the screen.

    It was my understanding that when I complete my VHF course, I will be given a code to input to my VHF which will allow the use of the distress button in an emergency, which will broadcast my position.

    I'm open to correction on that

    You will need an SRL (Ship's Radio Licence) to get an MMSI code. When you apply for an SRL, you need to stipulate that you have a DSC (Digital Selective Calling) enabled VHF, and they will then issue an MMSI (Maritime Mobile Service Identity) number (along with a callsign), which you can then input into the VHF (the MMSI, which is a 9 digit numerical code starting with 250 XXX XXX, is your DSC callsign or DSC 'phone number').

    You must first hold a SRC (Short Rage Certificate) (VHF Licence) before you can apply for an SRL.

    Most fixed VHF transceivers nowadays have DSC, but not all of them will have an inbuilt GPS for position & time data. (For instance, my fixed VHF is an Icom M323 with DSC, but no inbuilt GPS so it gets its GPS data from a separate MLR GPS unit which is wired to the VHF so as to transmit position/time data).

    Only some (higher spec) handheld VHF radios will have DSC/GPS built into them. (my handheld is an Icom IC-M25 which does not have DSC, though it's still a great little handheld).

    PLB is just an additional level of safety which will transmit your position constantly for 24 hours+, a DSC emergency transmitted on VHF will only transmit your position once (when you press distress), and that's it (unless of course you transmit further DSC pings, which might not be practical in an emergency situation).


  • #18
    PaddyTheNth
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭PaddyTheNth


    Flynnigan wrote: »
    What hp would I need for watersports?

    Depends on the boat (and propeller) it is attached to.

    Waterskiing - 50hp behind a typical 4m RIB is enough for the basics, including getting up on a monoski as long as the prop isn't pitched completely for top end speed. As the size and weight of the boat increases, you'll need to increase hp.

    Wakeboarding - you can make do with a bit less than waterskiing.

    Kneeboarding/donut-ing...wakeboard territory would be fine.

    Note that where people are recommending something with a V8, you're getting into more specialised territory...in the watersports side of things you're talking about boats with towers and center tow lines. They're a big step up on the sports side of things, but be careful going down this road as there are reasonably priced ski boats to be found which are typically designed for use on lakes/flat water and are hugely unsuitable for use at sea. There are sea-going ones available also.

    If you're looking for an all-rounder that you can go exploring the coast in, it's hard to go far wrong with a RIB. One downside is that you won't get a cabin unless you have a fairly hefty budget.


  • #19
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Flynnigan wrote: »
    Hi Fintan, how are you enjoying boating so far? Why type of Rib did you get and what are you using it for? The costs you've listed are pretty much what I expected although the insurance is a bit higher than I thought.
    Yes, sea trial is defo a necessity. Where did you buy your Rib?
    thanks

    Boating is great so far, best decision I ever made. I'm a bit nervous bringing 4-5 passengers as I'm not very experienced and I don't want to need to call the RNLI for any reason!! Although I find the water is very busy at the minute and everyone is helpful and friendly.

    It's a RIBTEC, using it for fishing and exploring so far, will be using it for skiing later on when I'm more familiar with it.

    One thing you need is to navigate, or navigate away from rocks!

    I use an IPAD mounted beside the steering wheel, and the Navionics App to see rocks and the recommended navigation channel. The Navionics App was €40 and I think it's excellent but then I've nothing to compare it to and I don't use it far off the coast.

    Kill cords are the most critical device on a recreational power boat, the boat must stop when the driver moves away from the controls.

    HP wise will depend on the boat length, weight and Hull shape, but I doubt on a RIB of 5.5M, anything less than 90HP in a 2 stroke of 115hp in a 4 stroke will suffice.
    But that's outboards of course.


  • #20
    Flynnigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Flynnigan


    AndyBoBandy wrote: »
    I think you should definitely try a few different options first before committing to 1 type of craft.

    Powerboats can be great for watersports, and getting places fast, but for me personally, the drone of the engine gets tiresome after a while, and the actual journey from a to b can be boring.

    Could you get down to a local club and try out sailing (as well as powerboating)? (I know, difficult in these times). Sailing for me is the journey to a destination, as well as the destination itself. yes it's a little slower, but your always involved, and doing something. Then even further down the line you have club racing and teh fun that brings...
    Hi, yes we have a local sailing club and tried it... unfortunately its not what we're looking for... maybe in another few years. Right now i think its watersports and exploration we're interested in. Cheers


  • #21
    Flynnigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Flynnigan


    Sorry, I forgot to ask, what about Wintering boats in Ireland. Are they ok to be fully cleaned, covered and left at the back of the house over winter or do they need to go inside.... or does this totally depend on the type of boat?


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  • #22
    Flynnigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Flynnigan


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Boating is great so far, best decision I ever made. I'm a bit nervous bringing 4-5 passengers as I'm not very experienced and I don't want to need to call the RNLI for any reason!! Although I find the water is very busy at the minute and everyone is helpful and friendly.

    It's a RIBTEC, using it for fishing and exploring so far, will be using it for skiing later on when I'm more familiar with it.

    One thing you need is to navigate, or navigate away from rocks!

    I use an IPAD mounted beside the steering wheel, and the Navionics App to see rocks and the recommended navigation channel. The Navionics App was €40 and I think it's excellent but then I've nothing to compare it to and I don't use it far off the coast.

    Kill cords are the most critical device on a recreational power boat, the boat must stop when the driver moves away from the controls.

    HP wise will depend on the boat length, weight and Hull shape, but I doubt on a RIB of 5.5M, anything less than 90HP in a 2 stroke of 115hp in a 4 stroke will suffice.
    But that's outboards of course.
    Ok, I need to do a bit more reading about HP, 2/4 stroke.....
    Were you always gonna purchase a Rib or were there any other types you were considering? Just wondering the pro/cons of a rib for what we're looking for.


  • #23
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Flynnigan wrote: »
    Ok, I need to do a bit more reading about HP, 2/4 stroke.....
    Were you always gonna purchase a Rib or were there any other types you were considering? Just wondering the pro/cons of a rib for what we're looking for.

    A 2 stroke 90HP will be considerably lighter and have more acceleration power than the equivalent 90HP 4 stroke which is important to get a skier up on skis etc.

    I always wanted a RIB as I think they are much safer than other boats, although other's may disagree. Essentially RIB's are the 4x4 of the boating world. They can be used for sports or exploring, or long cruises and I find them exceptionally comfortable as some have them have a deep V hull.


  • #24
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Hi OP - Sailor type here - do you mind me asking - what was it about the local (sailing?) club that you didn’t like or that put you off? The type of boat, the people, was it a cruising club or a racing dominant club? Maybe there is another club you could try next year and see if you like it better or if it suits your needs better? They really are useful in terms if having someone to ask advice from, problem sharing & route suggestions for days out as well as local knowledge - assuming its friendly. They often are also great sources for buying or hearing about local boats for sale (often at a v good rate) and finding out info on what works or problem/dud boats that you might otherwise not be warned about. Check out your local clubs noticeboards as an absolute!

    Also - you say you want a boat for exploring the coastline and wakeboarding. What age are your kids and what experience do you have in either power boats/ tides / your coastal area or sailing/ your coastal area/ tides.

    Regardless of whichever you choose if you are risking your kids on the water ( & Im all for kids on the water!) you really should know what you’re doing with regard to proper sailing/powerboating and how to read and navigate charts/ tides/ etc which can be treacherous particularly in the west.

    I’d recommend doing a basic desk based yachtmaster over the winter which would be really interesting & might team you up with other likely minded people in your area . It will also provide you with the chart reading , ColReG and course plotting skills and enable you to calculate distances/ diesal useage etc which would be really useful practical skills to have regardless if you choose sail or power. I know you say your husband is an expert but if he is wakeboarding and you are driving/ left inboard with the kids then it would be useful to have the info to hand to know how you should react if a problem arises and what the protocols for other boats/ channels etc are.


  • #25
    fergal.b
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    Flynnigan wrote: »
    Sorry, I forgot to ask, what about Wintering boats in Ireland. Are they ok to be fully cleaned, covered and left at the back of the house over winter or do they need to go inside.... or does this totally depend on the type of boat?

    Yep fine to leave outside, flush it with fresh water after being in the sea and leave the leg or outboard in the down position to drain, also open any seacocks and your drain bung if you have one , start the engine a few times over the winter. Some people also put the trailer on blocks to take the pressure off one point of the tyre and to stop it from being stolen.




    .


  • #26
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    fergal.b wrote: »
    Yep fine to leave outside, flush it with fresh water after being in the sea and leave the leg or outboard in the down position to drain, also open any seacocks and your drain bung if you have one , start the engine a few times over the winter. Some people also put the trailer on blocks to take the pressure off one point of the tyre and to stop it from being stolen.




    .

    Big bottom scrub and antifouling job and engine off if outboard for same reason.


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