Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Lundstram · 01-09-2020 06:38PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

OK, this is a bit of a mad thread, but I'll put my head above the parapet now.

Everything is open. APART FROM....

Gaa spectators and other sports too.
Weddings with more than 40 guests if you factor in the staff, musicians and so on
Gigs
Concerts.
Pubs with no beer, sorry no food lol.

Public Transport is slightly curtailed number wise.

Have I forgotten anything?

You list these things off like they mean absolutely nothing.

The GAA has 700,000 members and that doesn’t include a lot of supporters. These restrictions are hurting local clubs finances massively not to mention the mental health of people whose only outlet is their local club.

Pubs, weddings and concerts need staff, I’d say a lot of the 190k collecting PUP are from this area. You seem to think pub closures affect only Paddy who likes his few pints but their closure has a far more reaching affect. Suppliers, self employed and other small business are hit too.

People like you don’t see beyond the man sitting at the bar skulling pints, it’s a lot more than that.

Masks at a wedding and be gone home by 11pm such fcuking nonsense.

FintanMcluskey · 01-09-2020 06:43PM

High number's today which is typical of the colder weather at this time of year which brings colds and sniffles etc.

Luckily most Covid cases are asymptomatic so the sniffles aren't an issue

Dionaibh · 01-09-2020 06:46PM

Lundstram wrote: »

You list these things off like they mean absolutely nothing.

The GAA has 700,000 members and that doesn’t include a lot of supporters. These restrictions are hurting local clubs finances massively not to mention the mental health of people whose only outlet is their local club.

Pubs, weddings and concerts need staff, I’d say a lot of the 190k collecting PUP are from this area. You seem to think pub closures affect only Paddy who likes his few pints but their closure has a far more reaching affect. Suppliers, self employed and other small business are hit too.

People like you don’t see beyond the man sitting at the bar skulling pints, it’s a lot more than that.

Masks at a wedding and be gone home by 11pm such fcuking nonsense.

It brings to mind Reg's comment about the Romans in The Life of Brian:

"But apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, robes, the fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

But, incredibly, somebody wrote on a thread a few days ago that Ireland was just as open as Sweden.

Assetbacked · 01-09-2020 06:46PM

hmmm wrote: »

There's plenty of people on this thread telling the elderly and vulnerable they should just stay out of society, why is it any different? Should the vulnerable have to stay out of society forever?

As soon as a vaccination becomes available the vulnerable should be allowed mix freely again. And business should be allowed reopen fully. If a small group want to opt out of all this that's their right, but their rights end at the point where they pose a risk to other people.

I do not accept excluding anyone if they don't want to take a vaccine or do a test or whatever. But you are advocating for such actions. Therefore I think it is reasonable to suggest to you that perhaps it would be more practical (as it would only affect a smaller group and would be easier to enforce) to just isolate the vulnerable and old as they are the ones likely to cause issues with overburdening the health service if they contract covid. Don't let them mingle in pubs or shops unless they are vaccinated. I mean, if you want buy in to your 1984 dystopia suggestion, I suggest you start small.

CruelSummer · 01-09-2020 06:48PM

hmmm wrote: »

Do the elderly have rights?
The vulnerable?
Businesses?

If you don't want to get vaccinated that's your decision, but the rest of the country can't keep itself in hiding or on hold for your "rights". We'll be reopening and getting back to work and play as quickly as possible.

You're missing the point and not answering the question. Vulnerable and at risk groups should be vaccinated. Why should everyone else be if this disease is of no threat to them. Why are you encouraging an idea where one should be shut out of society if they don't want to take something they don't need?
Why are you directly linking the lifting of Restrictions and the partaking in society on a daily basis to mass vacccination for something that does not threaten the majority?

Assetbacked · 01-09-2020 06:49PM

Lundstram wrote: »

You list these things off like they mean absolutely nothing.

The GAA has 700,000 members and that doesn’t include a lot of supporters. These restrictions are hurting local clubs finances massively not to mention the mental health of people whose only outlet is their local club.

Pubs, weddings and concerts need staff, I’d say a lot of the 190k collecting PUP are from this area. You seem to think pub closures affect only Paddy who likes his few pints but their closure has a far more reaching affect. Suppliers, self employed and other small business are hit too.

People like you don’t see beyond the man sitting at the bar skulling pints, it’s a lot more than that.

Masks at a wedding and be gone home by 11pm such fcuking nonsense.

I was also going to reply but I will just add travel to yours; tourism is utterly devastated in Ireland. One of our key economic industries generating from overseas and NI tourists something like 6bn for the economy.

Dionaibh · 01-09-2020 06:50PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

You're missing the point and not answering the question. Vulnerable and at risk groups should be vaccinated. Why should everyone else be if this disease is of no threat to them. Why are you encouraging an idea where one should be shut out of society if they don't want to take something they don't need?
Why are you directly linking the lifting of Restrictions and the partaking in society on a daily basis to mass vacccination for something that does not threaten the majority?

Bill Gates said the world can't go back to normal until everyone on the planet has been vaccinated. And that's not a conspiracy theory. He's said it on numerous occasions.

hmmm · 01-09-2020 06:50PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

I do not accept excluding anyone if they don't want to take a vaccine or do a test or whatever. But you are advocating for such actions. Therefore I think it is reasonable to suggest to you that perhaps it would be more practical (as it would only affect a smaller group and would be easier to enforce) to just isolate the vulnerable and old as they are the ones likely to cause issues with overburdening the health service if they contract covid. Don't let them mingle in pubs or shops unless they are vaccinated. I mean, if you want buy in to your 1984 dystopia suggestion, I suggest you start small.

Vaccinations don't provide 100% protection. In order for vaccinations to work, you need a certain percentage of the population to get immunised (including those who are healthy) to provide complete coverage/herd immunity - for Covid that's a high percentage. Particularly for elderly people, their immune systems don't provide enough of a reaction. There are certain groups of people who can't take vaccines e.g. those who are immune suppressed.

Once a vaccine is available, the days of asking the elderly or vulnerable to hide away should be over. They have rights too. If someone on chemo wants to go for a pint some evening, they should be able to do that without worrying they are going to get Covid.

You have a choice. They don't.

Dionaibh · 01-09-2020 06:52PM

hmmm wrote: »

Vaccinations don't provide 100% protection. In order for vaccinations to work, you need a certain percentage of the population to take it (including those who are healthy) to provide complete coverage. Particularly for elderly people, their immune systems don't provide enough of a reaction. There are certain groups of people who can't take vaccines e.g. those who are immune suppressed.

Once a vaccine is available, the days of asking the elderly or vulnerable to hide away should be over. They have rights too. If someone on chemo wants to go for a pint some evening, they should be able to do that without worrying they are going to get Covid.

You have a choice. They don't.

So if enough people were to take the vaccine so as to achieve herd immunity, would that be good enough? Or would the people who don't want the vaccine still not be allowed to take part in society?

Polar101 · 01-09-2020 06:54PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/damages-case-by-dunnes-employee-adjourned-over-covid-19-restrictions-1.4344010

A Dunnes Stores worker who has sued for damages has had her case adjourned at the High Court because the courtroom assigned was over capacity according to Covid-19 guidelines.

Imelda Fay claims she suffered a crush injury while putting money in a safe.

Both sides in the case agreed they needed senior and junior counsel, solicitors and engineers to be in court, bringing the total number to 15 people, when the courtroom’s capacity had been assessed as 10 for Covid-19 purposes.

Not commenting on the case itself, but it sounds ridiculous that court proceedings can't go on because only 10 people can be in the courtroom at the same time.

Gael23 · 01-09-2020 06:54PM

What utter tripe. Putting the fear of god in people https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/nphet-member-hopeful-restrictions-around-gatherings-will-be-lifted-for-christmas-1015647.html

hmmm · 01-09-2020 06:55PM

Dionaibh wrote: »

So if enough people were to take the vaccine so as to achieve herd immunity, would that be good enough? Or would the people who don't want the vaccine still not be allowed to take part in society?

That's how it works today with other vaccinations. But if you don't get a high enough percentage to take the vaccination, herd immunity isn't achieved.

If you were really against getting vaccinated, the best thing you could do for yourself is encourage everyone else to get it.

Plumbthedepths · 01-09-2020 06:56PM

I see Regina Doherty levels of double speak has entered the thread.

Dionaibh · 01-09-2020 07:01PM

hmmm wrote: »

That's how it works today with other vaccinations. But if you don't get a high enough percentage to take the vaccination, herd immunity isn't achieved.

If you were really against getting vaccinated, the best thing you could do for yourself is encourage everyone else to get it.

I don't think getting enough people to take the vaccine would be a problem considering that 99% of the population is going along with the idiotic rules.

Assetbacked · 01-09-2020 07:01PM

hmmm wrote: »

Vaccinations don't provide 100% protection. In order for vaccinations to work, you need a certain percentage of the population to take it (including those who are healthy) to provide complete coverage/herd immunity - for Covid that looks like perhaps 60% to 80%. Particularly for elderly people, their immune systems don't provide enough of a reaction. There are certain groups of people who can't take vaccines e.g. those who are immune suppressed.

Once a vaccine is available, the days of asking the elderly or vulnerable to hide away should be over. They have rights too. If someone on chemo wants to go for a pint some evening, they should be able to do that without worrying they are going to get Covid.

You have a choice. They don't.

You have a hierarchical set of rights based on nothing but your own views perhaps a bitterness towards people who do not care as much about covid as you.

To protect a very tiny proportion of the population, I mean extremely tiny proportion, the whole of society shuts down and allows extreme government intervention to their bodies and freedoms? It is a complete non-starter. It would be better being flipped so that it is the smaller group that has to get the health passport in order to ensure they are not creating a burden on society, the burden you are so against.

60-80% need to take the vaccine? That's ridiculous, we do not even know how many people have been infected in Ireland and our government don't seem to be keen on rolling out mass testing for Covid and antibodies to make this assessment. Further, there will be a proportion who are immune to covid who don't need a vaccine.

3xh · 01-09-2020 07:02PM

hmmm wrote: »

Do the elderly have rights?
The vulnerable?
Businesses?

If you don't want to get vaccinated that's your decision, but the rest of the country can't keep itself in hiding or on hold for your "rights". We'll be reopening and getting back to work and play as quickly as possible.

Hmmm, I’ve heard this mentioned a few times now and perhaps I’m wrong about how vaccines work.

You say for us (as a country) to allow old/vulnerable people back out into society, the opposite (so, young/healthy people) will need to take the vaccine too.

If an old/vulnerable person takes the vaccine, why does that person need someone/everyone else to take it too? Does their vaccination not provide cover to them? Or is it the vaccinated other person that stops an old/vulnerable person from dying/getting sick from Covid?

hmmm · 01-09-2020 07:11PM

3xh wrote: »

If an old/vulnerable person takes the vaccine, why does that person need someone/everyone else to take it too? Does their vaccination not provide cover to them? Or is it the vaccinated other person that stops an old/vulnerable person from dying/getting sick from Covid?

Vaccines aren't like an on/off switch. Many vaccines don't work well with older people because their immune systems don't react strongly enough. Many of the most vulnerable to Covid won't be able to take a vaccine at all. In this case they will rely on everyone else around them being immunised to provide the herd immunity. It doesn't need to be 100%, but for a disease like Covid it will need to be a high percentage.

CruelSummer · 01-09-2020 07:14PM

hmmm wrote: »

Vaccinations don't provide 100% protection. In order for vaccinations to work, you need a certain percentage of the population to get immunised (including those who are healthy) to provide complete coverage/herd immunity - for Covid that's a high percentage. Particularly for elderly people, their immune systems don't provide enough of a reaction. There are certain groups of people who can't take vaccines e.g. those who are immune suppressed.

Once a vaccine is available, the days of asking the elderly or vulnerable to hide away should be over. They have rights too. If someone on chemo wants to go for a pint some evening, they should be able to do that without worrying they are going to get Covid.

You have a choice. They don't.

But it sounds like you don't want people to have a choice. Infact you've been on this thread playing up Covid and its affects now for weeks for fear people might lose their own fears.
Endgame = mass vaccination. Does it not matter than people are not dying from this anymore? The data does not match the level of restriction we are currently under, and the current mainstream media narrative. Unless of course, there's vested interests at play, such as various Professors on these shores & elsewhere that may have shares in such ventures as mass vaccination programmes, Health Passports, and a myriad of other shocking proposals that have no place in our society.

brisan · 01-09-2020 07:41PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

You have a hierarchical set of rights based on nothing but your own views perhaps a bitterness towards people who do not care as much about covid as you.

To protect a very tiny proportion of the population, I mean extremely tiny proportion, the whole of society shuts down and allows extreme government intervention to their bodies and freedoms? It is a complete non-starter. It would be better being flipped so that it is the smaller group that has to get the health passport in order to ensure they are not creating a burden on society, the burden you are so against.

60-80% need to take the vaccine? That's ridiculous, we do not even know how many people have been infected in Ireland and our government don't seem to be keen on rolling out mass testing for Covid and antibodies to make this assessment. Further, there will be a proportion who are immune to covid who don't need a vaccine.

According to the 2016 census 13.4 % of the Irish population was over 65
Hardly a tiny proportion

Assetbacked · 01-09-2020 07:43PM

brisan wrote: »

According to the 2016 census 13.4 % of the Irish population was over 65
Hardly a tiny proportion

Exactly, but not everyone over 65 is vulnerable. Those with underlying conditions are in that category.

brisan · 01-09-2020 07:44PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Exactly, but not everyone over 65 is vulnerable. Those with underlying conditions are in that category.

Not everyone under 65 is immune to the effects of covid 19 either

Assetbacked · 01-09-2020 07:45PM

brisan wrote: »

Not everyone under 65 is immune to the effects of covid 19 either

It is significantly lower though the number needing hospitalisation and dying. Negligible under 35!

01-09-2020 07:47PM

A lad on another thread said we need to “Do everything in our power” to protect the vulnerable.

But what does that actually mean or entail?

We have hospitals, GPs, dentists and specialists in just about every area you can think of. There will always be health advise and treatments available.

There gyms and pools etc to encourage people to exercise.

We have campaigns highlighting the dangers of cigarettes and alcohol.

I think we do everything we possibly can to encourage people to look after their health and treat them if and when it is needed.

What we CANNOT do is tank the economy and restrict healthy people from all forms of socialising in some bizarre attempt to allow elderly and vulnerable people to live longer.

That would require a complete societal change were we would need to move away from living life and focus more on simply surviving for as long as possible.

Of course that sounds ridiculous. But it is what we’ve been doing for 6 months now and don’t look like stopping anytime soon.

drunkmonkey · 01-09-2020 07:51PM

NPHET member hopeful restrictions around gatherings will be lifted for Christmas
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/nphet-member-hopeful-restrictions-around-gatherings-will-be-lifted-for-christmas-1015647.html

At what point do we tell them to F*** Off?

Plumbthedepths · 01-09-2020 07:53PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

NPHET member hopeful restrictions around gatherings will be lifted for Christmas
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/nphet-member-hopeful-restrictions-around-gatherings-will-be-lifted-for-christmas-1015647.html

At what point do we tell them to F*** Off?

I was passing my local GAA pitch on Saturday, seems many people have already decided to do what you questioned.

hmmm · 01-09-2020 08:05PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

But it sounds like you don't want people to have a choice.

You have a choice. What you don't have in society is the right to inflict the consequences of that choice on other people.

You can build a racetrack in your back garden and go racing. Society doesn't allow you to do that outside a school.

Once we have a vaccine, it would be completely immoral to ask the elderly and the vulnerable to remain isolated. At that point society will need to be protected from those who opt out of protecting society. Businesses will also be anxious to open up as fully and as safely as possible, and to protect their customers and their staff.

hmmm · 01-09-2020 08:07PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I was passing my local GAA pitch on Saturday, seems many people have already decided to do what you questioned.

Don't believe you. Every GAA club I know is taking this very seriously.

3xh · 01-09-2020 08:08PM

hmmm wrote: »

Vaccines aren't like an on/off switch. Many vaccines don't work well with older people because their immune systems don't react strongly enough. Many of the most vulnerable to Covid won't be able to take a vaccine at all. In this case they will rely on everyone else around them being immunised to provide the herd immunity. It doesn't need to be 100%, but for a disease like Covid it will need to be a high percentage.

Ok. So now we don’t need 100%, officially registered, vaccinations. Just enough population cover to help those who cannot take a vaccine due to their own bodily limitations.

So with that in mind, where is the line in population cover that makes it go from ‘We need more people to come forward and take the vaccine’ to ‘Ok thanks all. You can stop presenting for a jab now’?

Bear in mind, I suspect someone who physically contracted the virus naturally, is better vaccinated than someone that’s healthy but takes any vaccine brought to market. If ~28000 is the current official contraction figure, obviously more have had it in society that we’re not aware of their identity.

Also, I’d have thought a healthy, vaccinated person would still be contagious enough such that if they subsequently get Covid, time spent in a medically vulnerable person’s company would be discouraged greatly. So where is the benefit to these medically vulnerable people from healthy people taking the vaccine? I’ve heard that viral load will be lowered in the vaccinated people but not enough to allow a medically vulnerable person head out to the pub followed by an evening in a theatre, for example. I’m not seeing the key benefit here for these people.

Plumbthedepths · 01-09-2020 08:10PM

hmmm wrote: »

Don't believe you. Every GAA club I know is taking this very seriously.

What you believe is of no relevance to me. Although your post suggests you are familiar with every GAA club in the country, which of course is nonsense along with most of your commentary here.

bucketybuck · 01-09-2020 08:13PM

Reports are saying that the reported deaths from Covid today are reported to be zero. Government officials are reported to be very concerned about this.

Meanwhile a number of people online have apparently lost sight of what is actually most important about all of this, the death toll. They seem to have forgotten its importance.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings